# I regret to inform that we still don't die enough **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** pvp\ **Created:** [November 15, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984 "2021-11-15T16:34:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2021, 4:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/522 "2021-11-29T16:16:27Z")
Yes, EULA allows me to hunt miners. All miners consent to be hunted. ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/523 "2021-11-29T16:20:05Z")
Not 100%. You just can’t. Not “when you log” or “when you undock” or “when you download”. Maybe when you jump from specific places. EULA states it clearly: Getting started in EVE Online can be somewhat daunting for new players or rookies. Several systems in which new players typically start are deemed ‘Rookie System’ and in these systems (listed below) a measure of protection is offered to new players. This protection also extends to systems in which ‘Career Agents’ are located and as well as to systems associated with The Blood Stained Stars - Sisters of EVE Epic Arc. Attempting to abuse a new players lack of knowledge of the game and its mechanic for your personal gain or simply for their harm is prohibited in these solar systems. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/524 "2021-11-29T16:20:50Z")
I love killing new players. They are my favorite. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2021, 4:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/525 "2021-11-29T16:35:56Z")
> [@Xucca](#): > > Not 100%. That’s just a technicality. Those players represent such a tiny portion of the community, they don’t matter. A player has to be both under 30 days old **and** located in one of those systems to be subject to this rule. An older player in a rookie system, or a new player in a normal system, won’t qualify for any sort of protection. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2021, 7:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/526 "2021-11-29T19:19:54Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > And this is the key to the lack of destruction in EVE. A game is an ecosystem. Players participate in a game to get rewarded and receive gratification, or to create a feeling of ‘making progress’. They don’t do it to “sacrifice for the good of the game”. They don’t do it to reward somebody else at their own expense. In terms of reward…there is nothing that records that one’s Proc made 300 mining runs and make 500m ISK before being ganked. This is the true absurdity. That the miner is actually the _real_ winner. He’s made 10 times the value of his ship. He should rightly be sticking his finger up and saying ‘swivel on it…gankers !’…because in the final analysis he’s made far more from his ship than the gankers made from destroying it. BUT…Eve is so ‘kill’ obsessed that none of that gets recorded. ALL that gets recorded is that the miner got ganked. This bizarre failure to record the true balance is the problem. It gives the totally false impression that the gankers are the ‘winners’ and the miners the ‘losers’…when in fact nothing could be further from the truth. On an overall level…miners are trashing gankers every day. ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_Endares](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_endares/32/413291_2.png) [@Jin\_Endares](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_Endares)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2021, 7:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/527 "2021-11-29T19:21:42Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Miners consent to PvP and ganking. > > Miners get FREE ISK from asteroids. > > They openly invite a gank, daring gankers to come kill them. > > Miners are challenging gankers to come find them. > > Miners are REWARDED for not dying. > > Miners deserve to die. ![FB_IMG_1497404822397](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/f/5/0/f502e8ef1b1a8fe3d0a493d9254386515451d2da.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_Endares](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_endares/32/413291_2.png) [@Jin\_Endares](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_Endares)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2021, 7:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/528 "2021-11-29T19:23:15Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > I love killing new players. They are my favorite My alt killed one of your new players a couple of weeks ago who was dumb enough to attack me in a .5 system. Podded him too. Going by zkill, he hasn’t been back in the game since. 👍 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2021, 7:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/529 "2021-11-29T19:27:28Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Miners get FREE ISK from asteroids. Um…aren’t _you_ then getting FREE ISK if you gank them ?? Or do you put all your ganked ore into a special reserve fund for Emperor penguins or something ? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2021, 7:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/530 "2021-11-29T19:27:57Z")
Didn’t need that new player anyway, it’s already been replaced. 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2021, 8:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/531 "2021-11-29T20:48:35Z")
> [@Jin\_Endares](#): > > “Chance” doesn’t equate to “consent”. In EVE it does 😃 > [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](#): > > In Eve, it fundamentally does. By downloading and logging into eve, you are subject to PVP. It’s been that way since the day it launched. How is this still debatable? Yes, ^ what he said. > [@Xucca](#): > > Not so fast. > Not in all cases. Or at least, not for an attacker in all cases. > There are exceptions. There are no exceptions. You undock, you consent. Thems the brakes kid. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > In terms of reward…there is nothing that records that one’s Proc made 300 mining runs and make 500m ISK before being ganked. This is the true absurdity. That the miner is actually the _real_ winner. He’s made 10 times the value of his ship. He should rightly be sticking his finger up and saying ‘swivel on it…gankers !’…because in the final analysis he’s made far more from his ship than the gankers made from destroying it. > > BUT…Eve is so ‘kill’ obsessed that none of that gets recorded. ALL that gets recorded is that the miner got ganked. This bizarre failure to record the true balance is the problem. It gives the totally false impression that the gankers are the ‘winners’ and the miners the ‘losers’…when in fact nothing could be further from the truth. On an overall level…miners are trashing gankers every day. He should know. It is recorded. In his wallet when he sells. So you want mining participation trophies too? > [@Jin\_Endares](#): > > My alt killed one of your new players a couple of weeks ago who was dumb enough to attack me in a .5 system. Podded him too. > > Going by zkill, he hasn’t been back in the game since. 👍 🕶 Congrats? Welcome to EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2021, 8:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/532 "2021-11-29T20:50:51Z")
I hear theres a thing called a Mining Ledger ---
**Author:** ![Emira\_Sultana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emira_sultana/32/298445_2.png) [@Emira\_Sultana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emira_Sultana)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 12:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/533 "2021-12-01T00:24:20Z")
LOL @ Mining Ledger. What kind of obsessed individual uses a mining ledger for a game!? 😳 ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2021, 12:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/534 "2021-12-01T00:44:13Z")
When you got a huge mining fleet and gotta pay out your workers? Once upon a time there were mining IPOs as well. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2021, 7:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/535 "2021-12-02T07:09:35Z")
A miner? I mean, the game is a job simulator, no matter what people choose their opinions to be. ---
**Author:** ![Emira\_Sultana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emira_sultana/32/298445_2.png) [@Emira\_Sultana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emira_Sultana)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2021, 7:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/536 "2021-12-02T07:20:12Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > A miner? Yes but is he calmed down yet? Seriously though, not my cup of tea, I don’t understand how mining in a computer game can be so exciting as to have ledgers and invest so much time in it. I can understand it may be serious business for those who PLEX their account and it’s personal choice to use their time as they wish, but it’s simply not for me, not in a video game. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2021, 7:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/537 "2021-12-02T07:22:26Z")
Well, lots of alleged people claim they do it for fun or to relax. However, I can understand their interest (that we have manufactured without supporting evidence here) in the Mining Ledger as my most exciting moment in my last month playing EvE was watching Orca prices fall on a graph and acting… By pressing “buy”. ---
**Author:** ![Adm\_Malkaviano](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/adm_malkaviano/32/496610_2.png) [@Adm\_Malkaviano](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Adm_Malkaviano)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2021, 7:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/538 "2021-12-02T19:07:02Z")
I can only respond to the post title, since it’s not coherent to address 5 hundred posts. No, I clearly don’t. And the times I did, most of them were to afk behavior during missions. And while I have no problem admitting it, it’s not my fault CCP is too ‘busy’ (pay attention how benevolent I’m using that word) with stuff instead of making PvP fun and meaningful. Let’s contemplate for a second is half the effort spent nerfing / buffing / whatever / trigayvians were spent fixing the classic / bullet-proof / proven / half-assed idea of battleground aka ‘faction wars or warfare’. Because, we can only contemplate… There’s a misconception of asset accumulation, people are not accumulating because they going in an all out war anytime soon (I’m talking about average Joe), but because they want to play EVE and EVE is giving them a hard time with any meaningful activity to spent time with. So they put themselves in this ‘second job’ position and move forward causing themselves pain and frustration. _We don’t die enough because we don’t care!_ Making super NPCs did not work and nerfing shields/armor hards neither, let’s not talk about the joke WCS was, lol, nice nerf, it just made 90% of people (figure of speech, I took this info outta blue) to finally throw that crap out. But feel free to keep nerfing stuff, it’s your game after all. o7 ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2021, 7:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/539 "2021-12-02T19:37:12Z")
> [@Adm\_Malkaviano](#): > > There’s a misconception of asset accumulation, people are not accumulating because they going in an all out war anytime soon (I’m talking about average Joe), but because they want to play EVE and EVE is giving them a hard time with any meaningful activity to spent time with. Yes, this was the notion I made a thread about many months ago - the economy isn’t broken, and people aren’t hoarding just to distort the economy with their stockpiles. People default to building wealth _because there’s little else worth spending their time on_. So at least wealth-building gives some feeling of progress, and some feeling of ‘freedom’. Freedom meaning “well if I decided I wanted to do activity X, at least I’ll be able to afford it”. People often build wealth simply hoping that someday EVE will implement some feature that’s interesting enough for them to spend it on. Yes, there are some people that hoard just for the sake of hoarding. Which is irrelevant since we could all be billionaires and it wouldn’t change EVE gameplay mechanics one bit. There’s an amusing GIF I saw on Reddit with Bart Simpson writing out lines on the blackboard: “ **Tedium does not make good gameplay** ” Some aspects of the economy were/are out of whack (Rorqs/Orcas, null ratting, etc.) and CCP is taking steps to address those. Reasonable steps, in some cases. I think they overdid it on some of the other economic changes but we can work around that. The huge missing element in what EVE is _supposed_ to be about is “valid reasons to engage in and risk resources on PvP”. For most players, most of the time, there’s no just motivation or need to engage in PvP. When CCP pulls their heads out of their nether regions and starts making “PvP great again” (real, combat ship PvP, not the high sec ganking you see all the lamers crying for), then we’ll see a healthier economy and a less depressed player count. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2021, 8:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/540 "2021-12-02T20:05:53Z")
> [@Adm\_Malkaviano](#): > > And while I have no problem admitting it, it’s not my fault CCP is too ‘busy’ (pay attention how benevolent I’m using that word) with stuff instead of making PvP fun and meaningful. Securing the right to accumulate wealth **was** the primary driver for PvP during the early days. There wasn’t enough of the _good_ stuff for everyone (like 6/10 DED plexes, good moons, high-sec static complexes, etc.), so players actually fought over space to win opportunities for increased wealth. As time went on, and the game kept getting invaded more and more by the tearful casual masses, CCP separated EVE’s PvPvE gameplay into two distinct concepts: PvP and PvE. Now everyone has their own private moon to gobble, their own private abyssal pocket to grind, and their own index-driven null-sec pocket to farm. Add to this vast super-capital proliferation, removal of all high-sec aggression except for suicide-ganking, and the ability to turn wormholes into fortresses with powerful citadels. Of _course_ there’s no more meaningful PvP content. The entire reason why players fought in the first place has been replaced with a bunch of open faucets. CCP isn’t “busy” with other things; they’re doing desperate damage control to keep the game’s environment barely functional, like a doctor trying to keep alive a morbidly-obese individual who ate themselves into a stroke-induced coma. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2021, 8:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/541 "2021-12-02T20:57:05Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > As time went on, and the game kept getting invaded more and more by the tearful casual masses, CCP separated EVE’s PvPvE gameplay into two distinct concepts: PvP and PvE. Now everyone has their own private moon to gobble, their own private abyssal pocket to grind, and their own index-driven null-sec pocket to farm. More fantasy and delusion, as usual from Destiny. Facts are so easy to come by when you can make them up on the spot! Please do let us know how you’ve managed to obtain ‘private’ moons. Other PvPers seem to have found that moon mining was an excellent source of content: > [@Moon Mining: A Compromise \[HiSec\]](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/moon-mining-a-compromise-hisec/297370): > > Heyo. When I returned to EVE in August of 2019, I was coming back from a year and a half break. Looking for something to do, I discovered the changes to moon mining, and decided to see what sort of content this was. I very quickly realized that moons were an emergent content factory. To make a long story short: I added 4 accounts, bringing my total up to 7, with plans for more. Why so many accounts? Because I discovered that the best way to generate content at moons was simply: to mine as much… Also fill us in on how people are getting to and from Abyssal pockets without being PvP targets, especially since the traces are scannable. And do update us on the mechanics of how having a null-sec pocket to farm isn’t open to PvP, or how it’s different than Null has ever been. Since it’s the ‘tearful masses’ who got it added, apparently. I won’t even bother correcting you that wardecs still exist in high sec, and wormholes could always be fortified with player owned bases. Which were more defensible than citadels, in some ways. For the early years, there was some fighting and PvP in the game because the mechanics hadn’t all been worked out to the last decimal, people didn’t have other and better games to turn to, everyone wasn’t glued to their smartphone 4 hours a day, etc. You keep talking about the ‘new generation’ of players who will avoid PvP at any cost. I suppose you mean those hundreds of millions of players out there doing shooters, MOBAs, battle royales, survival games etc. And the fact that nearly all the people who played EVE 15 years ago are still out there playing combat games. They just dumped EVE because it’s not really a combat game anymore. It’s barely even PvP. It’s just ganking and ambushes. That’s nothing to do with the pleas of the tearful masses. That’s just CCPs sucky game design coming home to roost after players gave them a decade to deliver the game they promised and they continually failed. When folks stop whining about how CCP and the casuals “took PvP away” and start focusing on ways to add interesting and worthwhile PvP back into the game, maybe CCP will finally wake up and do something about it. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984.md?page=25) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984.md?page=27)