# I regret to inform that we still don't die enough **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** pvp\ **Created:** [November 15, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984 "2021-11-15T16:34:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 7:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/802 "2021-12-13T19:28:39Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > On the other hand, PvP in EVE _matters_ because of those stakes, which is why I can still remember that one fight in EVE a year ago but do not remember my many PvP games in league of legends which were fun, but not memorable stories. Preach it brother. Hell, I still remember close and great UO fights and those are 20 years ago or more. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > As for “you need to put in the work” in EVE, yeah, well, some people do find it hard. Other people find they can make billions per month without encountering any difficulty. I mean, yes, the interface is clumsy, the controls are 1980’s quality, ship combat is awkward, the mechanics are obscure and gameplay is generally very slow. So it may be difficult to _play_ - it’s not particularly difficult to learn. I mean it must be hard to learn. Peeps be getting blapped everyday and can’t even figure out local/d-scan LOL. Its ok bro, you don’t even play 😃 > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > I mean, seriously? That’s all you have to contribute? It appears EVE PvP has some pretty serious side-effects on the creativity of people who like it. I feel he’s contributed a lot. And I def know why you’re so salty at him 😃 The fact that he still has fun just rankles deep in your soul huh? The saddest part is, you once loved EVE. It gave you great memories. This level of hate can only come from something you once loved. I pity you man and feel for you. I get it. But its time to let it go. You’re forum warrioring and attempting to negatively impact a game you no longer even play. Just let it go. Ride off into the sunset. You’re gonna claim you want EVE to get “better”. But in reality, you just want to see it burn because you’re angry at it. Is it better or worse now? I dunno. That’s all subjective. What I do know is, the day I stop having fun, I’ll be gone. No dramatic post. And def won’t be posting unless I got an active account. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Still waiting I mean we’re still waiting for you to drop your main and actually playing the game so > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > your forum posting alt So drop the main 😃 What are you so afraid of honestly? > [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > Aaah ok, I thought you meant earlier in the game. Yeah that was already past Sniggs and his prime and by then you saw those ships more often. I miss the feeling of seeing a HAC and totally panicking haha. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Still waiting for you to make any contribution to the thread other than “you can’t criticize PvP because I like it so much I do it an entire **seven days a year** ”. Whether he does it seven or 365, its more than you bro. You don’t even play 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_Endares](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_endares/32/413291_2.png) [@Jin\_Endares](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_Endares)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 7:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/803 "2021-12-13T19:32:19Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > What is the point of gathering wealth if not to use it? Someone missed basic econ in school huh? Just out of pure economics and finance, the accumulation of “wealth” doesn’t need a reason beyond just wanting it. That’s what **LIBERTY** is about. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 7:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/804 "2021-12-13T19:34:41Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Well yes, if by “well researched” you mean “didn’t know what he was talking about so he made incorrect assumptions”. And if by “factual” you mean “factually incorrect”, then yes his posts are that. Sorry for not knowing the details of your other game. I’ve played a lot of games, including many PvP games, but I don’t know exactly which games have which game modes. Anyway, it seems you were playing a deathmatch game? Of about 8 minutes a match? > **Deathmatch game, at 8 minutes a match?** > > > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > > > **No respawn, you’re out of the match, your team is down 1 man** , which makes loss more likely, which hurts the stats and progress of the whole team. You are not positive in the end “even if you die”. In the top 2 levels of match you often lose currency _even if you win_. You have to grind the lower levels to pay for your high-end PvP, just like EVE. > > > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > > > As an example, in just over 30,000 battles I’ve accumulated 120 tanks. So roughly 300 battles per tank earned, **at roughly 8 minutes all told per battle** (queueing, wrap-up etc.). Before I do more incorrect assumptions, could you tell me if that’s right or explain what type of gameplay it is you’re referring to? If I understand correctly, in your reference game, in the worst case you don’t lose your equipment but can lose a match that takes a couple of minutes and lose some rating on the competitive ladder that you’re trying to climb? Anyway, competitive team based match gameplay where you’re trying to reach higher rating does indeed have stakes, but the stakes are completely different than in a full loot based PvP game like EVE (and others). Where in a match based game you can just queue again and again to PvP all you like, in a loot based PvP game the fight is only _part of the game_. Another big part is _the preparation_: getting back to that point where you can fight. It’s a bit strange to say “why isn’t everyone PvPing all the time in EVE while they are in those other games” when those other games **do not require preparation** , but can immediately throw you into a fight at the press of a ‘queue’-button. EVE requires preparation: creating or importing your equipment, flying to a location, finding targets to fight… none of it happens automatically for you. The stakes while fighting are therefore that you lose all that preparation time, of which there is plenty in EVE but is none in those other PvP games where you just press ‘queue’ and get in another fight with the same equipment that you earned earlier. It’s a different kind of PvP. Also a fun one, but that type of PvP wouldn’t work in EVE, if only because EVE is an open universe in which the entire market and industry depends on people losing their equipment on death. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 7:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/805 "2021-12-13T19:36:27Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > I miss the feeling of seeing a HAC and totally panicking haha. [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/1/8/188b55677078370e50f5f3c2e92037ec50718354.jpeg "Eve Online Shadoo rage: Armor Hacs, ARMOR hacs, ARRRRRMOR HACS!!!!!!!!!") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-kGGW0UlPA) ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 7:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/806 "2021-12-13T19:41:22Z")
I doubt a majority do backup their target selection in direct proportion to wealth. It seems more like a random choice or perhaps for some stupid reason like a skin appearance. Anyway, to me is more of a flash decision. In the end, there is not much time for pageants or castings on target selection, I guess. Wardecs are different, but they don’t really count… OH WAIT!!!1 Hmm… wardecs… an-other flawed, _easily_ fixable Feature that is definitely not a bug which could indeed increase destruction between players. Too bad it depends on creativity. ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 7:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/807 "2021-12-13T19:42:54Z")
Hehe… I was about to… You are a step ahead, this time! OH DA HUMANATEE! ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 7:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/808 "2021-12-13T19:43:37Z")
I’m guessing it’s World of Tanks or a similar clone, and that it’s some kind of allusion to those games having “real” PvP where players compete for a place on the leader board. ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 7:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/809 "2021-12-13T19:49:08Z")
My ships! I collect Killmarks, I DO! You take down a 40+ Killmark T3 Destro of mine and I get a nervous breakdown! Too bad they only worth any to me. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 7:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/810 "2021-12-13T19:53:11Z")
> [@Jin\_Endares](#): > > Just out of pure economics and finance, the accumulation of “wealth” doesn’t need a reason beyond just wanting it. > > That’s what **LIBERTY** is about. Ahh, so you’re one of them freedom humpers. Got it 😃 Also TLDR, EVE is a PvP game. Thankee and learn to EVE. > [@Xucca](#): > > Hmm… wardecs… an-other flawed, _easily_ fixable Feature that is definitely not a bug which could indeed increase destruction between players. Too bad it depends on creativity. I support bringing back the old war dec system. Without it, newbros grow into victimbros. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > I’m guessing it’s World of Tanks Who even plays that game? ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 7:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/811 "2021-12-13T19:59:08Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > The stakes while fighting are therefore that you lose all that preparation time Yes, hence the point of, what you actually lose in PvP in EVE is the same as other games : the time it takes you to recover your loss. If that includes the time it takes you to reship and fly back, then that’s part of the time. Something a lot of people don’t realize is that in a game, as in life, the one true currency of value is _your time_. You can make more money, you can grind more creds, but you have exactly N minutes of life in this world and you ain’t making more and you ain’t getting any of them back. So I get from your replies that you like to argue and split hairs. So let’s not waste time defining the parameters of other games so you can split hairs about those. You’re being reasonable, so I’ll be reasonable right back. Instead of following the PvP herd as they always do on these forums, how about you suggest something productive and positive that would result in a higher PvP participation level among EVE players. How about instead of seeing an idea post as something you can just argue _against_, you try something positive and say “That might or might not work but here’s how I would improve it”. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 8:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/812 "2021-12-13T20:07:57Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Yes, hence the point of, what you actually lose in PvP in EVE is the same as other games : the time it takes you to recover your loss. If that includes the time it takes you to reship and fly back, then that’s part of the time. But my point is that where I can throw my body 40 times on a capture point in anther PvP game I play, I cannot do so in EVE, as in EVE my death matters. What you lose in your game is 8 minutes of your time as you now ‘lost the match’. After which you press queue again and can play just like you could before. PvP can be completely different per game. And the point I find strange about your stance is that you say PvP in EVE is > **badly designed and too slow** > > > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > > > - PvP in EVE is **quite badly designed, it is mostly too slow,** clumsy and unrewarding for many players to bother with. So you end up with the PvP in EVE being somewhat tilted towards the kind of “ambush and gank” style that so many of our forumites proudly pat themselves on the back for engaging in. just because you don’t understand the difference between PvP in different games. Changing EVE PvP so that you can throw body after body on a capture point, or play instantly queued match after match with the ship you earned once but can now never lose, would turn EVE into a completely different game. If you wish that kind of PvP, there’s plenty of games on the market. Games I enjoy. But I also enjoy PvP in EVE, just because it is different than those other games. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 8:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/813 "2021-12-13T20:12:23Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Who even plays that game? I played it during beta and for a while afterwards, but it got pretty stale. Then I moved on to MWO when that came out, which I prefer. Having thousands of hours in games like that, though, I wouldn’t classify them as any more “PvP” than a conventional shooter. Loss is effectively inconsequential, even when those games had mechanics where you could end a round with less than what you started with (e.g. ammo and repair costs). Open-world MMOs and survival games have a wholly different cardinality of PvP, in which encounters are much more personal and actually have the feeling of competition with other live human beings, as opposed to slightly more entropic AI-like opponents like most of the players you’ll encounter in team-based shooters. ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 8:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/814 "2021-12-13T20:14:01Z")
Back wen billboards began proliferating, I wanted them to have the possibility of sorta gallery, a post board of statistics meaningful for the area, live images of ships and or pilots peeps could choose to display… wanted characters, king of the hill, griefers, most destroyed ship, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 8:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/815 "2021-12-13T20:25:16Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Yes, hence the point of, what you actually lose in PvP in EVE is the same as other games : the time it takes you to recover your loss. If that includes the time it takes you to reship and fly back, then that’s part of the time. Based on where I live… If I lose an expensive ship or any ship for that matter, my choices are as follows; 1, Fly 8 jumps within NPC 0.0 Stain and try to buy a ship from aggressive neutrals and risk being killed or camped for 3 or 4 hours 2, Scan out a wormhole to hi-sec and then risk flying the ship back through low-sec/wormhole space and possibly losing it. 3, Pay Black frog a couple billion and get ships delivered to Stain NPC 0.0 easily with no problem. 4, Build a ship from my supply of hard to get minerals and still have to make my way to the aggressive neutrals shopping hub for the T2 fittings where i might get camped for ages or killed. As you can see because I choose to be down here chasing these 6 billion isk drops my ship replacement options are limited to high risk or very expensive. I hope you can see that I could run into problems trying to replace my losses and incur further loss as a result. For you to try and tell me there is nothing different from Eve losses and losses in other pvp games is an insult to my intelligence. It is hard to maintain what I do, I pvp as much as I’m able to and I don’t have many complaints really nothing more than “I wish more people would play Eve” ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_Endares](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_endares/32/413291_2.png) [@Jin\_Endares](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_Endares)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 8:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/816 "2021-12-13T20:25:18Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Ahh, so you’re one of them freedom humpers. ![Liberal_Pacifier](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/9/d/1/9d1d0a943fad61920424803296f40394225b7522.jpeg) Does my love of freedom hurt you? ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_Endares](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_endares/32/413291_2.png) [@Jin\_Endares](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_Endares)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 8:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/817 "2021-12-13T20:27:08Z")
Not for nothing, it’s your choice where you live and play. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/818 "2021-12-13T20:29:43Z")
Well, if carebears choose to live and play in high-sec, and then complain about it anyway, why can’t he? ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_Endares](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_endares/32/413291_2.png) [@Jin\_Endares](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_Endares)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 8:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/819 "2021-12-13T20:30:33Z")
Reread what you wrote. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/820 "2021-12-13T20:36:29Z")
I don’t understand what you’re pointing out, please be specific. thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 8:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/821 "2021-12-13T20:40:32Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Changing EVE PvP so that you can throw body after body on a capture point, or play instantly queued match after match with the ship you earned once but can now never lose, would turn EVE into a completely different game. Nice strawman. Feel free to point out any place I suggested such a thing. Or, you know, even make a positive suggestion of your own. I assume there’s at least _one_ forum-PvPer who can do that? I mean there’s no evidence to suggest it but surely there’s a chance. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984.md?page=39) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984.md?page=41)