# I regret to inform that we still don't die enough **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** pvp\ **Created:** [November 15, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984 "2021-11-15T16:34:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 3:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/903 "2021-12-15T15:50:02Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > If null blocks decide they wanna be blue then they are going to be blue. Not so fast.. I’d like your 50 cents on this: > [@Xucca](#): > > If we went to the attachment to stuff as an issue, an interesting view could be that Null settling is too cumbersome to risk and therefore, it’s protection is indispensable, leading to no choice but adhere to the donutbrella. > If settling was light packed and sov wasn’t so foundational, the donutbrella would perhaps explode in multiple entities and maybe there would be a reduction of confrontation scale while there could be more conflicts all over the place. Before.. I’d like to add: Highsec should never be a --considerable-- source of destruction but one of conflict. What I mean is, yes, there should be destruction but with consequences that somehow percolated to Null. But that’s too much. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 3:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/904 "2021-12-15T15:56:21Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Threads crying about gankers are irrelevant, really. There’s rarely more than a few dozen forum posters going on about it at any given time, which means there’s likely only a few hundred players overly upset about it at any given point. yet they definitely outnumber threads about not blowing up enough. Which makes this whole thread even less of an issue by that logic. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Nullsec however definitely _is_ in CCPs control since they set the rules and can add or change anything at any time (see Blackout and all the recent ‘dynamic’ changes). exactly my point. Null said no. And ccp reverted. Blackout is about the worst example you could have given to illustrate your point. Blackout just proves that null is run by the players and if ccp try to screw with it………there is outcry. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 4:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/905 "2021-12-15T16:06:16Z")
> [@Xucca](#): > > Not so fast… I’d like your 50 cents on this: > > > [@Xucca](#): > > > > If we went to the attachment to stuff as an issue, an interesting view could be that Null settling is too cumbersome to risk and therefore, it’s protection is indispensable, leading to no choice but adhere to the donutbrella. > > > > > **If** settling was light packed and sov wasn’t so foundational, the donutbrella **would perhaps** explode in multiple entities and **maybe** there would be a reduction of confrontation scale while there **could be** more conflicts all over the place. lots of ifs buts and maybes. I wish CCP all the luck in the world if they try to change how null works on such a drastic level. I dont think they would have the balls. ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/906 "2021-12-15T16:07:54Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Highsec PvP for instance could be improved by empowering more playstyles. If “pirate”, “ganker”, “miner extortion” and “suspect baiting” are all viable careers and EVE is supposed to be about open-ended gameplay where you “make your own story”, then “mercenary for hire”, “bounty hunter” and “space cop” should all be viable careers as well. Hulls for Piracy… or modules for piracy… like hooks and ropes used to board real vessels… I honestly think that a freighter should not be destructible at all --for this particular scenario–. If anything, a piracy act against a freighter, should be the longest encounter scenario for having intrinsic mechanics piled to it. Lootable after usage of piracy modules, yes… to certain amount… and vaults… that a pirate must crack to access shiny goodies that can be fool’s gold too! I luv it! Look, neither of the parts must die in this particular scenario… --they could have other category of confrontation like disabling a pirate ship so others must -rescue- it-- Living like a true pirate must be allowed and widely encouraged under the precept of no end game --or no destruction-- but a generator of conflict that in it’s place, grants that it will lead to pew… It’s another game TBH but it’s a window to a quite exciting option as gamestyle, one that won’t include a kill as end game. ---
**Author:** ![Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wes_wyhunnan/32/409400_2.png) [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wes_Wyhunnan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 4:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/907 "2021-12-15T16:12:45Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > So in that case I’d design a system that rewards small scale “border raiding” and covert ops to encourage smaller groups to take dangerous forays into null sov. There are fights in deep sov null between small groups all….the….time. When I log in, it would take me maybe a max of 10-15 minutes to get into a fight if I went looking for one, and usually much quicker than that. I know this is bizarre for people in this thread, but fights between people looking only for PVP, with no monetary or sov gain, happen constantly in null. Every single night I have been in null there have been roaming groups of anything from 5 to 60 ships in our space taking fights. ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 4:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/908 "2021-12-15T16:14:05Z")
> [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > I wish CCP all the luck in the world if they try to change how null works on such a drastic level. I dont think they would have the balls. Yup, but it’s an eye opener to how entropy works. --sometimes against you– ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 4:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/909 "2021-12-15T16:17:46Z")
> [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](#): > > There are fights in deep sov null between small groups all….the….time. Yes, already pointed out that Null has the highest per capita destruction in the game, thanks. People keep seeming to want to jump on the “but PvP already happens and is great!” bandwagon all the time. Keep in mind the thread isn’t saying PvP doesn’t happen. It isn’t saying PvP should be removed. It’s asking “what can be done to add **more** PvP and destruction?”. All these “yeah me and my bros sure do luvz us some PvP!” memories don’t add anything to the convo. Or, well, some local color, maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 4:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/910 "2021-12-15T16:21:32Z")
> [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](#): > > There are fights in deep sov null between small groups all….the….time. Oh tell me about it!.. I am (was and will be) part of a group… We had at various moments (and will again) a little place called \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* … Oh you will get a fight there tailored to your expectations. We guaranteed fun (and will again)… we was … temporarily displaced. Or we adopted a “tactical retreat”. If you know this game, you now know who we are. --and how patient– ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 4:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/911 "2021-12-15T16:38:55Z")
> [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](#): > > I know this is bizarre for people in this thread, but fights between people looking only for PVP, with no monetary or sov gain, happen constantly in null. Not for all of us… hehe… Yup, those fights in Null have no motto --per se-- but happen just for fun. It’s healthy as they keep troops on their toes and do, happen all over. They account for an amount of destruction and the level or percentage of such encounters won’t vary much if SOV changes are introd’. SOV changes could indeed bring more destro but not from the mentioned scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 4:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/912 "2021-12-15T16:40:24Z")
Null players tend to have HS alts, for trading, PvP, mining and general industry. High sec players are _just_ in high sec. So just like how statistics doesn’t work for the percentage of players that engage in PvP, compared to the characters that do, statistics also doesn’t work for high Vs null _players_, only for characters. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 4:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/913 "2021-12-15T16:42:09Z")
Yeah, so its only important to other people. If they cared as little as they claim, and as little as they shpuld, theyd not gave started a thread about it, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 4:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/914 "2021-12-15T16:45:27Z")
I get that its important to some people to record successes the question was why care about your losses? ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 4:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/915 "2021-12-15T16:51:34Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > the question was why care about your losses? The reasons don’t matter much as they are personal, some of them generic, yes. But the game itself encourages unnecessary attachment --for it’s hardness-- which is counterintuitive. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 4:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/916 "2021-12-15T16:54:41Z")
If people were to let go of thoughts of disappointment, revenge fantasies, etc they might have a more enjoyable game. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 4:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/917 "2021-12-15T16:58:16Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > If they cared as little as they claim, and as little as they shpuld, theyd not gave started a thread about it, yes? If you care about threads started on the topic of losses being posted for whatever reason, perhaps you and Etch should post in those threads about it? It doesn’t have anything to do with this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 4:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/918 "2021-12-15T16:58:51Z")
Yeah it does but dont you worry your wee head about it. I really couldnt care less what you have to say about my posts, ta. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 5:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/919 "2021-12-15T17:02:04Z")
I’d say that emotions fuel actions and give it all meaning. It’s just that some people have been cuddled all their lives so they are allergic to not being special, because that is what their parents always told them. The idea of “you can do anything you want, just because you want it” also meets a harsh reality check in a competitive PvP game, because it turns out that they’re not that special and others are better than them. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 5:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/920 "2021-12-15T17:04:08Z")
> [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > High sec players are _just_ in high sec. So just like how statistics doesn’t work for the percentage of players that engage in PvP, compared to the characters that do, Statistics generally don’t work for people that don’t understand them, or who can’t even tell what’s being measured. The earlier statistics posted on PvP participation, for instance, referred to **Logins** and not players _or_ characters. Every PvP event generates at minimum 2 “logins involved in PvP” and on average more than 2. So if 13.8% of _logins_ are engaging in PvP, then much less than 1 in 7 logins is actively seeking PvP. This puts PvP firmly in the minority status in this “PvP centric” game. No matter how you slice it, players log in more than 6 times as often to _not_ engage in PvP than to engage. PvPers can cry all day about “carebears who got PvP nerfed” but the simple fact is, the EVE PvP scene is very narrow and niche, focused mostly on a few very limited scenarios, and could do with some expanding. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 5:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/921 "2021-12-15T17:05:11Z")
> [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > It’s just that some people have been cuddled I wish Id been cuddled once. But anyway, yeah, I mean if you (general you, not you you) cant do what you want, factoring in others desires, then I guess a sandbox must seem really one sided. +1 I like that way of looking at it ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 5:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/922 "2021-12-15T17:17:20Z")
Yup and this is enhanced by single player games were (obviously) you’re always the most important character. Same for the majority of mmo where everything is about you and how, through storyline, you’re the saviour of the world. Most mmo are about YOU, not so much about teamwork or interaction. _If someone else just mined that ore node that doesn’t mean it should be gone for you. You DESERVE that ore node_. And then they start playing EVE… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984.md?page=44) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984.md?page=46)