# I regret to inform that we still don't die enough **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** pvp\ **Created:** [November 15, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984 "2021-11-15T16:34:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 48
**Author:** ![una\_noche\_mas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/una_noche_mas/32/296902_2.png) [@una\_noche\_mas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/una_noche_mas)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 1:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/964 "2021-12-17T13:47:15Z")
we are not dying enough because our cognitive sources focus on survival for a long time now … > [@LETTER TO CCP Volume 2](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064): > > LETTER TO CCP - Volume 2 This letter has a different subject in focus than before. New subject: We have been through this … Scarcity How much do we know about scarcity and how this affects human psychology and the community mass except the reflections we have all been exposed to in-game day by day. This is a game, a leisure activity as players every decision matters. Homo economicus in a fictional world. Every human being has limited cognitive power to process happenings inside and around t… here is the answer… Here is why people prefer to maintain what they have in their hands and do everything to not loose it. community become even more Risk averse ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 12:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/965 "2021-12-18T00:36:32Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Zkillboard is a fantastic source of information and a nice list of memories, but who cares if it shows you’ve lost ships? For something that everyone professes nobody cares about…it doesn’t half get quoted a lot ! ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 12:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/966 "2021-12-18T00:41:52Z")
> [@una\_noche\_mas](#): > > here is the answer… > > Here is why people prefer to maintain what they have in their hands and do everything to not loose it. > > community become even more Risk averse Nope. That’s your opinion bruv. Learn to EVE and research methods kthx. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > For something that everyone professes nobody cares about…it doesn’t half get quoted a lot ! If you are actually a long time player and don’t understand why zkills is important well, that’s embarrassing. I never even uploaded until I was forced to do by corps, so I have a ton of kills undocumented LOL. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 12:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/967 "2021-12-18T00:52:10Z")
> [@una\_noche\_mas](#): > > Here is why people prefer to maintain what they have in their hands and do everything to not loose it. I’ve said again and again on these forums that people are not motivated by rationality. People in games are motivated by whatever their version of ‘fun’ is…and demotivated by whatever ‘not fun’ is. Losing stuff is ‘not fun’. _Rationally_, what one has lost might only be 1% of one’s entire assets and be utterly trivial. But that can be easily outweighed by the psychological impact of it. It is ‘not fun’ to lose stuff…and it is even more ‘not fun’ to keep on losing stuff. Heck, I’ve heard more than enough cases in corp and other chat of people not even liking losing a 4K ISK Hobgoblin. I mean, you can get 250 of the damned things for a mere 1m ISK…_rationally_ they are inconsequential. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 12:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/968 "2021-12-18T00:54:38Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > Losing stuff is ‘not fun’. _Rationally_, what one has lost might only be 1% of one’s entire assets and be utterly trivial. But that can be easily outweighed by the psychological impact of it. It is ‘not fun’ to lose stuff…and it is even more ‘not fun’ to keep on losing stuff. Heck, I’ve heard more than enough cases in corp and other chat of people not even liking losing a 4K ISK Hobgoblin. I mean, you can get 250 of the damned things for a mere 1m ISK…_rationally_ they are inconsequential. Losing stuff is what gives stuff meaning. If you were immortal, you’d quickly find life boring. People play vidya games for fun. EVE is an open world PvP sandbox game. It isn’t for everyone. If it ain’t for you, cool. Contract me your stuff and head on out 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 1:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/969 "2021-12-18T01:02:03Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > I’ve said again and again on these forums that people are not motivated by rationality. People in games are motivated by whatever their version of ‘fun’ is…and demotivated by whatever ‘not fun’ is. > > Losing stuff is ‘not fun’. _Rationally_, what one has lost might only be 1% of one’s entire assets and be utterly trivial. But that can be easily outweighed by the psychological impact of it. It is ‘not fun’ to lose stuff…and it is even more ‘not fun’ to keep on losing stuff. Heck, I’ve heard more than enough cases in corp and other chat of people not even liking losing a 4K ISK Hobgoblin. I mean, you can get 250 of the damned things for a mere 1m ISK…_rationally_ they are inconsequential. It’s not a two-bit dichotomy. There exists a subset of players who don’t find losing stuff “not fun,” even if they don’t find it _fun_ either. They accept loss as part of the game, and aren’t bothered by it. This is in contrast to the players who are perturbed and upset by loss, and do everything in their power to avoid it at the expense of everything else, even if that “everything else” takes the form of increased gain that more than offsets their losses. Game like EVE weren’t intended for the latter group. At least, not as long-term players. They _do_ make good content for players who are part of the genuine target demographic. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 1:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/970 "2021-12-18T01:03:52Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > It’s not a two-bit dichotomy. There exists a subset of players who don’t find losing stuff “not fun,” even if they don’t find it _fun_ either. They accept loss as part of the game, and aren’t bothered by it. This is in contrast to the players who are perturbed and upset by loss, and do everything in their power to avoid it at the expense of everything else, even if that “everything else” takes the form of increased gain that more than offsets their losses. > > Game like EVE weren’t intended for the latter group. Honestly, in games where loss means nothing I take dumb risks because I don’t have to worry at all about the consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 1:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/971 "2021-12-18T01:04:32Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Losing stuff is what gives stuff meaning. If you were immortal, you’d quickly find life boring. > > People play vidya games for fun. EVE is an open world PvP sandbox game. It isn’t for everyone. > > If it ain’t for you, cool. Contract me your stuff and head on out But once again you treat it as if everyone should have your particular stance on things…which is odd for what you openly say is a sandbox game and thus open playstyle. Clearly _you_ have found a particular fun style. The fact that someone else may not enjoy that particular style does not mean they are not, or cannot be, enjoying the game in their own way. It _is_ a sandbox game…not ‘my way, or the highway’. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 1:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/972 "2021-12-18T01:06:36Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > But once again you treat it as if everyone should have your particular stance on things…which is odd for what you openly say is a sandbox game and thus open playstyle. > > Clearly _you_ have found a particular fun style. The fact that someone else may not enjoy that particular style does not mean they are not, or cannot be, enjoying the game in their own way. It _is_ a sandbox game…not ‘my way, or the highway’. Re-read mine and DC’s post until you understand 😃 > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > **EVE is an open world PvP sandbox game. It isn’t for everyone.** The above is the important one. Even sand boxs have rules. This one has open world PvP. Loss is part of the game. Don’t like it? Cool. No one is forcing you to play. Contract that stuff to me and head on out 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 1:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/973 "2021-12-18T01:14:28Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > This is in contrast to the players who are perturbed and upset by loss, and do everything in their power to avoid it at the expense of everything else, even if that “everything else” takes the form of increased gain that more than offsets their losses. I wouldn’t say anyone was ‘perturbed’. I’d express it far more in terms of people asking themselves ‘what is the _point_ of this game ?’ What actually constitutes ‘winning’ in some sense ? Clearly, for some people ‘winning’ means getting as many kills of others as possible. For others it may be PvE, or completing missions, or being a bounty hunter, or whatever. But there is also a large subset for whom ‘winning’ means acquiring stuff. I mean, you have said yourself that you’d hate degradation of stuff…because all your items built up over the years would be gone. So you’re as much a hoarder as anyone else. Probably also because those items have associated history within the game. Lol…everyone keeps telling me in one breath that Eve is a sandbox, and in the next demanding ‘_this_ is how you play the game’…which is usually how they themselves are playing it. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 1:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/974 "2021-12-18T01:19:13Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > I mean, you have said yourself that you’d hate degradation of stuff Ahh so you’re that dude. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 1:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/975 "2021-12-18T01:22:17Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > I wouldn’t say anyone was ‘perturbed’. I’d express it far more in terms of people asking themselves ‘what is the _point_ of this game ?’ What actually constitutes ‘winning’ in some sense ? If you don’t believe that there are people are perturbed (or worse) by loss, I can link you to an interesting _blog_ you can read. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > I mean, you have said yourself that you’d hate degradation of stuff…because all your items built up over the years would be gone. So you’re as much a hoarder as anyone else. Probably also because those items have associated history within the game. I don’t want degradation of stuff because it’s an unnecessary inconvenience that would force me to spend a lot of my time on micromanaging my gear so that I can operate at peak efficiency all the time. The loss wouldn’t upset me because degradation would affect everyone equally, so I wouldn’t be any worse off than anyone else. It would just be the natural state of the game. Also, it would be terrible for EVE because everyone would invest into ISK and PLEX as hedges against degradation, which would be pretty catastrophic for the in-game economy. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 2:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/976 "2021-12-18T02:07:31Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > If you don’t believe that there are people are perturbed (or worse) by loss, I can link you to an interesting _blog_ you can read. Oh…I can well believe a few are emotionally distraught, etc. But CCP are totally correct that there are two types who play, and I’m in the second ( larger, I think ) group where every loss is greater motivation to stay and fight back. Who knows…I may even challlenge Gix to that duel in due course 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 7:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/977 "2021-12-18T07:58:03Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > Oh…I can well believe a few are emotionally distraught, etc. But CCP are totally correct that there are two types who play, and I’m in the second ( larger, I think ) group where every loss is greater motivation to stay and fight back. Who knows…I may even challlenge Gix to that duel in due course 🙂 I mean I’m in low right meow. ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 3:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/978 "2021-12-18T15:06:56Z")
I don’t like degradation either. Just brought it as an alternative. What I think is “things should have never be everlasting”, meaning that if degradation was not implemented at the beginning, it should not happen. Also, degradation is already in through other “clever” methods that could be a plausible test bed for things to come. And depending on how deep they wanna go with this degradation system disguised as expiration, a big push for PVP can --and should-- be the goal. The problem is that the system has already saturated: we keep getting goodies every day, some or many of which we have zero clue what they are about, what they do… as they are mostly pertaining to recent events, implementations or just crappy stuff. It’s not a question of rust on the shells everywhere, I don’t know where people get this from. Degradation is here to stay, all I say is… may the gods be wise and make good use of it, with a goal in mind, with a plan --too much to ask?–. Yes, both for the narrow, blurry negative scope of players and as always, the lack of creativity on the gods part. ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 3:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/979 "2021-12-18T15:26:39Z")
OMG! I’ve just imagined the horror if your account type was easily identifiable in game. Owly shii- ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 10:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/980 "2021-12-18T22:53:00Z")
> [@Xucca](#): > > a big push for PVP can --and should-- be the goal So, completely rewriting Eve into a new game. The sort of destruction needed to turn Eve into a true pvp centric game could only happen by rewriting quite a few mechanics surrounding pvp itself. Right now much of the pvp that goes on is - personal grudges, for a bit of fun, griefing, or simple boredom. There really is no drivers to encourage pvp as pretty much everything is based around “staying safe”, controlled encounters and making isk. ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 11:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/981 "2021-12-18T23:00:52Z")
> [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > So, completely rewriting Eve into a new game. No. Just giving the right stuff in order to both promote PVP action and reduce aversion to destruction. I honestly can’t understand where you get the idea of “completely…” ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 11:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/982 "2021-12-18T23:15:35Z")
Eve hasn’t been a pvp centric game for a number of years. Pretty much everything CCP has done for the last 6 years removed the “need” to fight and encouraged “empire building” which actually worked so well those empires are all but invulnerable, without CCP intervention they’re “safe”. Goons vs everyone should have sent alarm bells ringing loud and clear to CCP but instead they’ve released more changes that encourage wealth building and safety within your space. I will add, lowsec is probably in a good place for pvp. The larger groups there will and do fight and subcap pvp is there for those who enjoy that type of pvp. Though lowsec does leave a lot to be desired when it comes to player interactions. Blob warfare has been the bane of Eve for many years and is the one thing CCP continues at failing to address. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2021, 9:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984/983 "2021-12-19T09:37:27Z")
> [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > Blob warfare has been the bane of Eve for many years and is the one thing CCP continues at failing to address. You mean N+1 which has been a staple of war since war began? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984.md?page=47) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-regret-to-inform-that-we-still-dont-die-enough/336984.md?page=49)