# I WAS A CODE. SPACE BULLY **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Tags:** pvp, high-sec\ **Created:** [August 8, 2019, 8:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-was-a-code-space-bully/181117 "2019-08-08T20:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 49
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 1:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-was-a-code-space-bully/181117/1016 "2019-12-27T13:55:33Z")
Talk about arrogance and stupidity. Your concept of balance was talking about the need for freighters to die as some overall destruction balance that you pulled out of your rear end and said it was so. So more freighters must die because nullsec are not fighting because they have blued everyone? Is that balance? Of course you failed to convince me because that argument was a complete and total load of bollocks. > [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > While it is amusing that this thread straight out of 2014 has sparked up, I’m going to have to side with AE’s main point here: the gankers are gone. [CODE’s killboard](https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99002775/stats/) is back at 2013 levels now, while [CONCORD](https://zkillboard.com/corporation/1000125/stats/) is destroying the lowest number of ships per month since reliable records became available 9 years ago. Highsec crime, or maybe just highsec in general, is on life support. Wow, I started again in 2009 and there was a very healthy hisec with wars and ganking, go and look at the stats for 2009 per month in terms of CONCORD and then look what happened afterwards. When the change to destroyer ROF was made. Ganking exploded and the number of ships was based on the mass use of Catalyst. This is just utter bullshite and you should be ashamed of even posting it, especially to people who know exactly what went on during that period. ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 1:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-was-a-code-space-bully/181117/1017 "2019-12-27T13:57:25Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > with the gankers ship and the gank target being the attack and defense structures How about you just teach people to fly correctly and we wouldn’t have this issue in the first place… ---
**Author:** ![z0ra\_Berg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/z0ra_berg/32/187042_2.png) [@z0ra\_Berg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/z0ra_Berg)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 2:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-was-a-code-space-bully/181117/1019 "2019-12-27T14:49:42Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > a system where a ganker initiates a gank on a ship using a ship of camparable value That would be unbalanced. It is natural for plenty of smaller, cheaper ships to destroy a bigger, more expensive ship. A clan of hyenas can kill a lion. A poisonous frog can kill pretty much anything of any size. Poison is super effective. There is no balance to be had with this and it would, in fact, be a nerf to suicide ganking as well, because you’d be limiting the amount of possible interactions massively. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > There’s numerous ways in which the mechanics can be balanced, Here’s the thing: You’re not talking about balance. Mechanics can’t be balanced, they can be tweaked. What is being balanced are numbers in equations. Data. Like, for example, the amounts of ships killed by suicide gankers in highsec or the amount of suicide gankers destroyed before their targets ship explodes. If CCP cared about providing these two opposing sides with content, they would be looking at these numbers first. I’m not saying they’d be _only_ looking at these numbers, but they’d definitely do look at them. So they’d notice that there are a lot of ships getting ganked in highsec, with barely any opposition happening. Let’s assume they _want_ antiganking to be a thing, of course. They advantage CCP has is that they can run scenarios and watch them live, because they save all that data. They’d be likely looking at plenty of ganking scenarios, where people try to prevent the gank from succeeding. They’d be looking at the involved game mechanics and they’d be trying to figure out which game mechanics they’d need to tweak to _balance the numbers_ attempting to increase the amount of successful suicide-prevention-acts. Speculations about how this might be achieved are It’s outside of the range of your question and there is no point even trying, because we do not have enough insights. They do, they just don’t care. Suicide ganking gets rid of itself eventually and the fact that there are roaming Triglavians out there means that they do not even have to _worry_ about suicide ganking, at all, because NPCs are doing this job now. We are, actually, mostly, in agreement. I believe it’d be better if there was a point in an opposition. I believe it’d be better if \< -5 capsuleers had an easier time flying around, because that’d mean more fights happening in highsec. We’d have more groups of suicide gankers and suicide-preventers. Hopefully, at least. In any case, the question was about balance. It looks like that what you’re seeking is _fairness_, which can be mistaken as balance of course. I’m assuming, because you’d prefer _“a gank on a ship using a ship of camparable value”_, which of course could never be sanely codified into game mechanics anyway. As a side question: Would you like to see arenas in this game? It seems you prefer artificial restrictions int he name of what you perceive as “fair”, thus my question. You’re right, though, that talking about balance requires talking about opportunities. One side wants to shoot people randomly and is being forced to minmax the situation to their advantage, as much as they can. The other side wants to shoot the people who randomly shoot other people, but they can’t, because the suicide ganker is being forced to minmax the situation to his advantage as much as he can. Current game mechanics don’t allow this at all and deviating from them will only create more people complaining about suicide gankers, because any and all changes would require suicide gankers to have more freedom. Without this freedom there is no room for suicide-preventers to engage the gankers. That’s why we’re in this situation. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Your concept of balance was talking about the need for freighters to die as some overall destruction balance that you pulled out of your rear end and said it was so. I’m sorry for being unable to express things in a way even _you_ understand them. That’s absolutely on me. Luckily, though, does it not matter even a single, tiny bit. > [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > Well I do think the constant nerfs have taken their toll, I think the primary factor impacting ganking numbers is just the decline in highsec activity. It appears to be more likely that no one cared about bringing new blood in. Game mechanics discourage the behaviour from the start and there do not appear to be new-player-corps for suicide ganking. The primary reason for any communities dying is that they’re not attracting enough new blood. There are additional reasons, of course, like the dissincentives and the unusually cruel punishment for doing something that’s supposed to be allowed according to game mechanics, BUT the number one reason nonetheless is the lack of fresh blood. * * * And now I will mute this thread, because I refuse letting myself getting sucked into this realm of bitterness, inflated chests and nonsense. I prefer playing the game without unnecessarily talking about things which are way out of literally everyone’s reach and, unlike quite a few others, am I well aware of the fact that everyone in this thread, including myself, is absolutely incapable of coming up with even a hint of an actually good solution to a problem that solves itself eventually anyway. Please do not expect any further responses. If you do feel like responding to me anyway, then you’re doing so only, because your ego demands it. o/ ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 3:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-was-a-code-space-bully/181117/1020 "2019-12-27T15:03:18Z")
> [@z0ra\_Berg](#): > > I’m sorry for being unable to express things in a way even _you_ understand them. That’s absolutely on me. Luckily, though, does it not matter even a single, tiny bit. You were trying to say that the destruction of freighters due to a poor mechanic was balanced at the destructive level of the entire game, that things needed to be blown up. You failed to convince me of that argument and trying to patronise me like this “in a way even you can understand it” is rather pathetic. I reject totally that simplistic argument that freighter ganking has to be made easy so that enough stuff gets blown up in the game, there have I put in in a way that even you can understand it? The bitterness is on the side of the gankers, I am happy that the mechanic that pushed it so much in their favour has been adjusted so that they have to be logged in and ready and have to hurry to get the kill and are now stuck with the same paper rock scissors as the rest of the game so that the use of ECM, tracking disruptors and sensor dampeners and so on cannot be instantly solved by an at their leisure re-dock. They have to go with what they have and the game is better for it and yet they don’t want to accept that greater risk of failure. Can you even understand it? And that last comment is Solstice Pojeckt run away troll posting on steroids. > [@z0ra\_Berg](#): > > If you do feel like responding to me anyway, then you’re doing so only, because your ego demands it. Pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-was-a-code-space-bully/181117/1022 "2019-12-27T15:14:41Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > engaging playstyle if an opposing force wishes to engage If it’s not engaging for you then don’t do it. CCP should be trying to make flying poorly more attractive. Not losing your ship is the victim’s engagement while the hunt and successful attack is likewise for the ganker…we don’t need more bells and whistles. I mean, why add another layer to combat for ganking yet then ignore normal PvP? You’re just rewarding poor flying… And yes, there is a correct way to fly and that is part of risk acceptance…AFK in an 0.5 flying a Cov is very poor risk management, for example. That is very wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 3:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-was-a-code-space-bully/181117/1024 "2019-12-27T15:35:54Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I don’t. And that’s a problem. You’re literally arguing to have less content in EVE with this comment. No I am not. I saying don’t do what you are suggesting…I’m saying stop asking CCP to do things for you when everything is already there. Just because you are not interested in something doesn’t mean that we need to Pimp-da-Mechanic. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > causing gankers to ragequit Who cares…like anybody who rage quits, we shouldn’t be running after them with a warm blanket and sweat words. That can’t hack it the there’s the door just like for everyone else. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Where have I said normal PvP should be ignored? Oh so this is really a “let’s redo all PvP mechanics” idea then? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > it’s not inherently wrong Not caring about losing a ship doesn’t make it the right way to fly. It’s still wrong, they just don’t care if they lose it. Nobody is going to hold that up as an example of a right way to fly…heck it’s just bad business for a miner… ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 3:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-was-a-code-space-bully/181117/1026 "2019-12-27T15:45:40Z")
> [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > Not caring about losing a ship doesn’t make it the right way to fly. It’s still wrong, they just don’t care if they lose it. Nobody is going to hold that up as an example of a right way to fly…heck it’s just bad business for a miner… I remember having this very conversation in the AG channel, where a guy was flying a max yield Covetor, his yield was much higher than my tanked skiff, he had picked a system which saw very low gank activity and for him it was the right way. I did not presume to say he was wrong, his logic was sound. I prefer to be hard to kill so my approach is different, but his approach made total sense. Would not work in Kamio though. Still I am not sure that your example links in to freighter ganking, perhaps an AP story is what you were looking at as being the wrong way to fly a loaded freighter? ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 4:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-was-a-code-space-bully/181117/1027 "2019-12-27T16:02:35Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You’re literally arguing …nope. I am arguing against YOUR premise, not for something. Repeating it over and over wont change that. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I imagine you’ll care No. If CCP needs to and bells and whistles to EVE to hold the attention span of the next generation of gamers then I don’t care if EVE dies as it wont be EVE anymore anyways. The “I’m bored entertain me or else” crowd should be ignored…catering to them is a trap… > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > PvP mechanics are constantly changing Yes but what you are suggesting is a rather large rewrite for how PvP works with special conditions for ganking. That could be the biggest combat change ever in EVE…and for why? To appease gankers? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > YOU consider it wrong Ok, you think it’s right…got it… > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s funny you say that. You don’t seem to include travel time…which is a huge issue for the Cov due to its tiny hold. It’s a great idea TBH but in reality you need to factor in flight time for miners. ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 4:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-was-a-code-space-bully/181117/1028 "2019-12-27T16:06:24Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > I prefer to be hard to kill Exactly. “Yield tanking” is on paper maybe slightly viable but you are almost guaranteed to be hit where as in a tanked Proc it’s the opposite; almost guaranteed to be ignored. Covs are great when time on the rocks need to be minimized…or when you have hauling support. Else, they are deathtraps. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 6:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-was-a-code-space-bully/181117/1030 "2019-12-27T18:47:42Z")
So ganking is incredibly easy and profitable… but for some mysterious reason miners are unlikely to be ganked? This sounds like the old “CODE is killing the game, but it also has no relevance” argument. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 7:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-was-a-code-space-bully/181117/1032 "2019-12-27T19:44:31Z")
So what you are saying is that ganking is easy, profitable, and yet for some reason few do it? It sounds like ganking might be the next ‘big thing’ - we just need to get the word out. All you miners listen up, ganking is EASY and PROFITABLE, so put down those mining lasers and get ready to make some easy isk! ---
**Author:** ![Galaxy\_Pig](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/galaxy_pig/32/374625_2.png) [@Galaxy\_Pig](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Galaxy_Pig)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 9:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-was-a-code-space-bully/181117/1034 "2019-12-27T21:15:50Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > would you like a reasonable disucssion? Nah, no thank you. I’ll just continue to ridicule you. ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 9:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-was-a-code-space-bully/181117/1036 "2019-12-27T21:55:26Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > So then why are you saying that people who don;t like mechanic should not play it, if you’re not arguing for them to stop playing it? If somebody doesn’t like doing something, don’t do it. I would hope I don’t need to explain this. And again, just because one is against something. it doesn’t automatically make them a proponent of the opposite. Please stop accusing me of that. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > So then CCP have 2 choices: No because your false dichotomy is based all on an assumption; that there is something fundamentally wrong with ganking mechanics. That’s your opinion…CCP has a _bit_ more than just two options here… > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Again, it’s not a suggestion. Yes, I know. Your _example_ adds more conflated mechanics for one action that only happens in HS with one end goal; make mining/hauling safer. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > To increase highsec conflict. Miners and haulers don’t want conflict…YOU want to make it safer for them…that’s the only thing you’re pushing here. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > you’re doing mining wrong This is ironic…really, are you going to drop that? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You’re definitely not. It was a relative point! Where there are gankers, given the option, they will hit Covs all day long over Procs… ---
**Author:** ![Galaxy\_Pig](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/galaxy_pig/32/374625_2.png) [@Galaxy\_Pig](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Galaxy_Pig)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 10:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-was-a-code-space-bully/181117/1037 "2019-12-27T22:03:13Z")
Once again, everyone check out this guys posting history around 2012-2015. It is unreal. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 10:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-was-a-code-space-bully/181117/1040 "2019-12-27T22:14:06Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I dared to have well reasoned opinions My grandma always said, “If your ideas are so great, you wouldn’t need to tell people how great they are.” ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 10:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-was-a-code-space-bully/181117/1042 "2019-12-27T22:22:47Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > they tend to implode. Wow, yah, CODE has really been imploding. Ever since you started writing these long rants, you’ve just been imploding CODE left and right. They call you THE IMPLODER. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 10:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-was-a-code-space-bully/181117/1044 "2019-12-27T22:28:55Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > code is pretty much hanging on by a thread Yep, one more long winded post from you, and James will shut down his blog. You and Dracvlad sure got us good, we are totally defeated. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 10:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-was-a-code-space-bully/181117/1046 "2019-12-27T22:34:03Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > most of code immediately ragequit Sure, that’s what happened - you are not in any way ignorant or filled with bluster. I admire your ability to know so much, and I never think that you are misinformed. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 10:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-was-a-code-space-bully/181117/1048 "2019-12-27T22:38:58Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > that’s what appears to have happened Of course, nobody would ever think that you are prone to exaggeration, or that your arguments are riddled with hyperbole and emotional distortion. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 10:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-was-a-code-space-bully/181117/1050 "2019-12-27T22:43:16Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > we know that it’s a code thing to deny objective facts, right? I’m not sure what you are talking about, but I’m sure you are very wise, because you spend a lot of time writing long posts on this forum. I truly respect your opinion and I would like to learn more about your thoughts and ideas. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-was-a-code-space-bully/181117.md?page=48) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-was-a-code-space-bully/181117.md?page=50)