# I WAS A CODE. SPACE BULLY **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Tags:** pvp, high-sec\ **Created:** [August 8, 2019, 8:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-was-a-code-space-bully/181117 "2019-08-08T20:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 2044
**Author:** ![Valiran\_Teleros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valiran_teleros/32/504787_2.png) [@Valiran\_Teleros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valiran_Teleros)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2020, 8:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-was-a-code-space-bully/181117/2044 "2020-02-26T08:29:26Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > At the moment me and a couple of other players are looking at the state of Eve and see it is so boring, stale and uninteresting in every way and to trying to do something is a long hard slog against impossible odds, the content is dry because it is all sewn up by major nullsec groups and CCP by trying to go after the excesses of nullsec and botters keep making it worse. Then…why are you playing? > [@Dracvlad](#): > > I am told that catching AFK cloaky campers is impossible, however I have done it, I set up to note them logging in, noted where they were then started working through the possible points that they used to create the book mark, I would then try to replicate it and had a cloaky there. Eventually I got on the same grid, the next day I blew him up. Took me two weeks to do that, it did not fall into my lap like your whales, it required me to actually hunt. Part of this was forcing him to camp multiple systems so that in his initial login he was not cloaking in warp because of stupidity and arrogance. Do you have a killmail to prove it? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > As far as I know AGs have never tried to pass themselves off as “white knights”. That’s always been a label given to them by gankers. > > Gankers blow up ships in highsec, and that’s fine. AGs try to stop it, and while hampered by incredible levels of imbalance, that’s also fine. There’s not really good guys or bad guys mechanically. The only real “bad guy” element is that there’s a minority of emotionally damaged gankers who aren’t seeking to blow up ships for in-game reasons, they are seeking to upset the players behind the characters deliberately, which is what historically led to some of them being banned. I’m not so sure I agree with you there. While you and Dracvlad might not present yourselves as heroes fighting villains, I’ve noticed that the AG crowd has some pretty vocal folks who _do_ and seem to think that gankers are all puppy-kicking sadists IRL. I’ve no doubt there are _some_ toxic people in the ganker crowd - hell, the thread OP even admitted as much! - but the AG crowd seems to be filled with a lot of folks who don’t quite get that EvE is supposed to be a place where ganking, stealing, and scamming are all allowed because the devs wanted to play pre-Trammel Ultima Online in space. > [@Australian\_Excellence](#): > > But thats me right? 🤪 That’s what Drac thinks, so Ugren might be on to something. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Hardly a surprise. Anti-ganking isn’t a viable mechanic as gank mechanics are so shockingly overpowered. Honestly, I wouldn’t mind if the AG side of things could interrupt/prevent ganks, provided the mechanics were balanced such that ganking would still remain viable. CCP would probably have to reduce hauler and mining ship EHP to compensate, and maybe a few other things. Hell, if they implemented my stargate idea it would automatically make things easier for gankers. Barges and freighters can’t move very fast, and having to travel the 15k back to the gate will probably take long enough for a gank fleet to prep and land on grid. > [@Bronson\_Hughes](#): > > Coming into this thread kind of cold (and my first time back in C&P in general in a long time), and as the denizens of C&P are wont to do, I’d like to add my 0.02 ISK to this. > > I am not a ganker (although I have ganked on occasion), nor have I ever been part of the New Order (although I have flown with them). That style of play just doesn’t suit my tastes, my way of thinking. Yet I can still say, without doubt or hesitation: > > _The CODE always wins._ > > It always wins because it is a self fulfilling prophecy. It’s a brilliant piece of social engineering, buried in plain view in an online game. > > - Ganks someone and succeeds? _The CODE wins._ One more ship destroyed, and hopefully one more pilot awake and at the controls from now on. > - Ganks someone and fails? _The CODE wins._ Hopefully one more pilot awake and at the controls from now on. > - Someone stages a defense and succeeds? _The CODE wins._ They got other pilots up off of their but and into the game. > - Someone stages a defense and fails? \*The CODE wins. One more ship destroyed, and they got other pilots up off of their but and into the game. > > Are there members of the New Order who are just bullies or salt collectors? Sure. Are there political and economic drivers behind suicide ganking? Absolutely. But at its core, the CODE is about getting people involved in _actively_ playing EvE instead of just AFKing their way through it, and with everything they do, they accomplish that goal, whether they succeed in a gank or not. > > You can’t beat the CODE. The more you fight it, the more it wins. I’ve pointed this out before in this thread; it’s called the Xanatos Gambit. It means executing your plans in such a way that you end up benefiting from the outcome, no matter what that outcome is. Hell, the only time I can recall CODE. _actually_ losing is when their team rage-quit the Alliance Tournament and left James with the unenviable task of trying to spin that as a victory. It would have been better if they flew a bunch of max-yield, untanked haulers and barges as a bloody sacrifice to The Savior Of Highsec. > [@Bronson\_Hughes](#): > > You’ll note that I referred to _The CODE_ as **an idea** , not a group of players. Players can win and lose. Players can abuse ideas or stay true to them. But the **idea** behind _The CODE_ , in its true form, always wins because, intentionally or not, it was built as a self-fulfilling prophecy. This, right here? This is an undeniable truth. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Isnt this section about fictional crime and punishment? > > How is being a pirate or lawful permit enforcement officer not what C&P are about? It’s not treated by the staff as an in-character RP forum, but you’ll never see Aiko acting like CODE. aren’t the ones who make the rules, not CCP. Hell, she even [posted some nonsense about CODE. winning ATXII](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-do-miners-think-of-bots/193548/109) when I brought it up in another thread. I think she’s tried posting in the IGS forums before, but her posts tend to get deleted by the mods because she keeps breaking the fourth wall, so to speak. > [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](#): > > And that isn’t the same thing? The way I see it, I’m not being _told_ how to play unless they actually communicate with me via text or voice chat and say something like “this is how you should play”. If they just attack me then they’re an obstacle/challenge I need to avoid or learn to overcome, just like I would in any other game. Humans just happen to be more adaptable and unpredictable than video game AI, so accomplishing this task can be difficult. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > What I play tends not to be influenced by random autistic children on the internet lobbing insults about. **Oi.** Don’t go throwing around “autistic” like a slur. That’s not okay. > [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > No. You are confusing RL penalties to RL mechanics. The penalties are different (20 years vs ship loss) but the reaction of the law is the same; it’s after the crime. True, but when someone starts walking toward a store while openly carrying a loaded gun (red safety setting) then folks tend to notice, and if those folks are both immortal and heavily armed (capsuleers) then it’s all the more likely that violence will ensue. --- _[View the full topic](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/i-was-a-code-space-bully/181117)._