# ICC Conference. A new way forward **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [November 6, 2024, 10:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/icc-conference-a-new-way-forward/467121 "2024-11-06T22:33:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Woodrow\_Ormand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/woodrow_ormand/32/515084_2.png) [@Woodrow\_Ormand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Woodrow_Ormand)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 3:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/icc-conference-a-new-way-forward/467121/21 "2024-11-08T03:50:11Z")
Trust me, you have never seen me yelling. And answer me this, if they choose to stay, are they truly slaves? or are the a willing work force? slave means a very specific thing. A slave is an unwilling participant. A slave gets no “choice” as you said. you buy and sell property, not free humans ---
**Author:** ![Malak\_Starfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malak_starfire/32/501915_2.png) [@Malak\_Starfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malak_Starfire)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 3:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/icc-conference-a-new-way-forward/467121/22 "2024-11-08T03:59:56Z")
As much as I do enjoy watching the Amarrian and Gallentean verbal sparring, it would be foolish to think that the “Empires” would listen to either of you and put aside millennia of various practices that would make a Deathless Angel as myself blush. I do believe that this is a conference between Capsuleers who want to foster trade across Genesis and Sinq. Unless ofc you would rather keep sending sweet juicy freighters across those zones that are often affected by my esteemed colleagues’ incursions into High “Security” Space. And wouldn’t the Gallenteans want to divert trade away from Jita? ---
**Author:** ![Woodrow\_Ormand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/woodrow_ormand/32/515084_2.png) [@Woodrow\_Ormand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Woodrow_Ormand)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 4:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/icc-conference-a-new-way-forward/467121/23 "2024-11-08T04:02:28Z")
Im not asking the Empires to listen to me. I understand this conference is about capsuleers, which is why i called on capsuleers in the original post. But capsuleers also have a large amount of power, and if loyalist capsuleers spoke up to the Empire, maybe some change could happen. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Redwolfe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/baron_redwolfe/32/474918_2.png) [@Baron\_Redwolfe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Baron_Redwolfe)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 4:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/icc-conference-a-new-way-forward/467121/24 "2024-11-08T04:08:18Z")
There is no force in the Capsuleer program large enough or concerned enough to even cater the thought of such an action. ---
**Author:** ![Laura\_Elasce](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/laura_elasce/32/418947_2.png) [@Laura\_Elasce](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Laura_Elasce)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 4:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/icc-conference-a-new-way-forward/467121/25 "2024-11-08T04:14:40Z")
As a Federation citizen who has chosen to join LUMEN, I believe that the most important thing to do is to make connections, building bridges and fostering understanding, so they might learn a better way. Yes, there is much in the Empire that is abhorrent to us. But the people that live there are people just like us, capable of just as much good or evil as we are. If we make demands of them, they are not likely to react kindly. If we befriend them, they will come to learn the benefits of our way of thinking, and start to incline towards it. We must remember that this will be a slow process. While capsuleers may hold great fame, they are not the people making the decisions in the Empire. They are subordinate to their Empress. While in our democracy, we can freely call for the things we believe in, that is not always the case for them: they must at least somewhat accept in public what their superiors tell them. So they do not have, or do not feel they have, the freedom to denounce slavery on their own. But by becoming their friends, our beliefs will spread to them, and from them to others, until eventually the Empire is converted. ---
**Author:** ![Woodrow\_Ormand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/woodrow_ormand/32/515084_2.png) [@Woodrow\_Ormand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Woodrow_Ormand)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 4:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/icc-conference-a-new-way-forward/467121/26 "2024-11-08T04:16:41Z")
The point is that the Empire would notice. If many Imperial loyalists who have been recognized as heroes by the Empire started lobbying against a certain practice by the empire, then the Empire may take notice. They may issue a statement at the very least addressing these concerns. Also, consider this. Hypothetically, though i doubt or wouldnt ask the loyalists to do what im about to say, but what happens if imperial loyalists refuse to fight in the warzone until it is addressed. now, mind you, i would never expect anyone to put down arms and cede territory, simply, to speak up ---
**Author:** ![CJ\_Westbrook](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cj_westbrook/32/439730_2.png) [@CJ\_Westbrook](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CJ_Westbrook)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 4:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/icc-conference-a-new-way-forward/467121/27 "2024-11-08T04:17:47Z")
A noble sentiment and one I’m not opposed to but remember that influence works both ways. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Redwolfe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/baron_redwolfe/32/474918_2.png) [@Baron\_Redwolfe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Baron_Redwolfe)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 4:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/icc-conference-a-new-way-forward/467121/28 "2024-11-08T04:19:29Z")
That is a lot of faith in such an action, you think the hero’s and influencing Capsuleers have any power? A simple Inquisition into their past and boom, heretic declared and their efforts are lost in dust and ash. ---
**Author:** ![Woodrow\_Ormand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/woodrow_ormand/32/515084_2.png) [@Woodrow\_Ormand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Woodrow_Ormand)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 4:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/icc-conference-a-new-way-forward/467121/29 "2024-11-08T04:20:19Z")
How many heretics does it take for them to realize, “wait, why are all of our fighters gone?” ---
**Author:** ![Malak\_Starfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malak_starfire/32/501915_2.png) [@Malak\_Starfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malak_Starfire)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 4:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/icc-conference-a-new-way-forward/467121/30 "2024-11-08T04:22:05Z")
I mean, that does seem like an interesting way to weaken a rival. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Redwolfe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/baron_redwolfe/32/474918_2.png) [@Baron\_Redwolfe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Baron_Redwolfe)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 4:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/icc-conference-a-new-way-forward/467121/31 "2024-11-08T04:23:07Z")
You underestimate the power of faith and the guidance of God. ---
**Author:** ![Woodrow\_Ormand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/woodrow_ormand/32/515084_2.png) [@Woodrow\_Ormand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Woodrow_Ormand)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 4:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/icc-conference-a-new-way-forward/467121/32 "2024-11-08T04:23:08Z")
I do not ask them to put down their arms, as much as i would like everyone to, but if they called “heretic” on anyone who asked for change, who will be left? ---
**Author:** ![Woodrow\_Ormand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/woodrow_ormand/32/515084_2.png) [@Woodrow\_Ormand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Woodrow_Ormand)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 4:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/icc-conference-a-new-way-forward/467121/33 "2024-11-08T04:24:08Z")
In my opinion, any god that allows slavery, is an evil god and does not deserve worship ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Redwolfe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/baron_redwolfe/32/474918_2.png) [@Baron\_Redwolfe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Baron_Redwolfe)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 4:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/icc-conference-a-new-way-forward/467121/34 "2024-11-08T04:25:29Z")
Ashvet dar’nosh, ven mazaf dar’aya sa’ar aya. Nothing more, but again… I was not around in the ancient era before the Concord when the Empire was the first among the stars. ---
**Author:** ![Woodrow\_Ormand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/woodrow_ormand/32/515084_2.png) [@Woodrow\_Ormand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Woodrow_Ormand)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 4:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/icc-conference-a-new-way-forward/467121/35 "2024-11-08T04:26:09Z")
> [@Baron\_Redwolfe](#): > > Ashvet dar’nosh, ven mazaf dar’aya sa’ar aya mind telling me what that means? you’ve said it twice and i have zero idea what it means ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Redwolfe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/baron_redwolfe/32/474918_2.png) [@Baron\_Redwolfe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Baron_Redwolfe)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 4:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/icc-conference-a-new-way-forward/467121/36 "2024-11-08T04:28:50Z")
It is simply an old Amarrad saying, I think you use the phrase in common to the sentiment of Agree to disagree? ---
**Author:** ![Laura\_Elasce](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/laura_elasce/32/418947_2.png) [@Laura\_Elasce](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Laura_Elasce)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 4:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/icc-conference-a-new-way-forward/467121/37 "2024-11-08T04:46:28Z")
Well … God ‘allows’ people to kill each other, the Triglavians to steal entire stars … if the fact that evil exists in the world and God hasn’t just forced us to cut it out means that you think God isn’t worth worship … well, then only authoritarian dictators that enslave their people and only allow them to do what they want are worth following. It’s awful that people use God to justify doing wrong to each other, but, well, people use all sorts of things, including the ideals of the Federation, to justify that. ---
**Author:** ![Laura\_Elasce](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/laura_elasce/32/418947_2.png) [@Laura\_Elasce](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Laura_Elasce)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 4:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/icc-conference-a-new-way-forward/467121/38 "2024-11-08T04:50:27Z")
It does, yes. Who knows, maybe we’ll learn a thing or two from them, too. The Federation has been made so rich by the contributions of so many cultures, why should this one be different? Hopefully, of course, we’ll learn the best parts of each culture from each other, and not our worst parts. One never does know, though. But I guess that’s where faith comes in. Which I guess, given how religious the Amarr are, is fitting in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Erica\_Munory](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/erica_munory/32/379141_2.png) [@Erica\_Munory](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Erica_Munory)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 7:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/icc-conference-a-new-way-forward/467121/39 "2024-11-08T07:00:32Z")
The interest in trade goes both ways, mr. Ormand, it is not just Amarr that is interested in access to the Federation’s markets, but also the other way around. There is no bargaining chip with which to impose your own culture’s views. More than mere trade, mutual respect for each other’s cultural habits should be a goal for this conference. To get away from considering your own vantage point and your own preferences as the moral high ground when meeting others. Actually, personally I hope better trade relations can also serve to normalize the trade in human resources to the Federation, and relax the secure commerce commission’s rules in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![Amicia\_Cora](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/amicia_cora/32/413315_2.png) [@Amicia\_Cora](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Amicia_Cora)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 3:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/icc-conference-a-new-way-forward/467121/40 "2024-11-08T15:00:12Z")
> [@CJ\_Westbrook](#): > > Your call to action should be revised to focusing on making trade with the Federation so appealing that it’s worth the cost of reforms. Well said. Unfortunately this aspect of cross-border diplomacy is all too often neglected, particularly in the capsuleer space, so I take some heart from seeing it acknowledged here. Detente is, by it’s very nature, something that we only pursue with those with which we have an antagonistic past. No such effort can be expected to bear fruit without first accepting that deeply rooted conflict - in this case in the realm of societal ideology - is unlikely to change its fundamental qualities overnight. Instead, persual of mutually-beneficial relations in other areas, with the long-term goal of making the continued deepening of such activities a more beneficial prospect to both parties than the continuation of historical conflicts, is the most pragmatic way forward. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/icc-conference-a-new-way-forward/467121.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/icc-conference-a-new-way-forward/467121.md?page=3)