# If the number of players on the server is not higher by this time next year **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 16, 2023, 9:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/if-the-number-of-players-on-the-server-is-not-higher-by-this-time-next-year/416161 "2023-08-16T09:32:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Dreg\_Apc](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dreg_apc/32/381263_2.png) [@Dreg\_Apc](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dreg_Apc)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2023, 6:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/if-the-number-of-players-on-the-server-is-not-higher-by-this-time-next-year/416161/145 "2023-08-20T06:24:56Z")
the “shrinking target audience” of EVE is a myth until proven otherwise. Imo its one of the excuses CCP uses to not fire anyone important, and have the game continue to be in control of the wrong people. And players continue to leave. ---
**Author:** ![Dreg\_Apc](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dreg_apc/32/381263_2.png) [@Dreg\_Apc](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dreg_Apc)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2023, 6:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/if-the-number-of-players-on-the-server-is-not-higher-by-this-time-next-year/416161/146 "2023-08-20T06:55:03Z")
Just to list the excuses CCP has: 1. Subscription model is unpopular (The argument is that players are greedy, but then CCP offers cosmetics that costs $50 or more. Essentially contradicting themselves) 2. Its an old game (There are 20+ year old games that are more popular than ever) 3. The target audience of EVE is shrinking (Source?) those are the main ones as far as im aware. But what if the problem is that CCP is just incompetent? ---
**Author:** ![Flatulent\_aberration](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/flatulent_aberration/32/380074_2.png) [@Flatulent\_aberration](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Flatulent_aberration)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2023, 10:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/if-the-number-of-players-on-the-server-is-not-higher-by-this-time-next-year/416161/147 "2023-08-20T10:37:44Z")
> [@Dreg\_Apc](#): > > one of the excuses CCP uses to not fire anyone CCP has fired “many” people and closed several discrete offices, in more than one country, over the years. Latter mostly related to decisions to cut specific development targets, such as Dust (game) and use of VR (technology). The fact CCP have now raised $40 M of external funds to develop a game that is NOT EvE, suggests EvE is not their current priority. And yet, company accounts indicate EvE is their main (only?) source of positive cash flow. That’s a tricky tightrope. > [@Dreg\_Apc](#): > > Subscription model is unpopular What is more likely is the sub model is not providing enough cash (flow) for CCP. We can’t know for certain due to lack of transparency eg how many discrete players actually log on monthly. What % are omega. What % alpha = free. What % of omega use PLEX = also “free”. True, I don’t really know how PLEX works, but the existence of PLEX in-game MUST represent a liability, against the company, at some future point. This is probably why a 2 year plexed account represents a 45% discount on plexing monthly - to get folks to dump PLEX in the first place and/ or to give CCP more certainty. Sure, it is an old game, but more importantly they are offering nothing radically “new”. Plus, at the same time as there is no real “end game” to aspire or “catch up” to. That’s why I’m an advocate of a “fresh start” instead. Just boot-up the unused test server, mirror the existing game, and anyone who wants to can BUY a fresh toon and start again on an advertised date - say Jan 1st 2024. No transfer of assets. No free SP. No alpha. No plexing. Just cash. Upfront. > [@Dreg\_Apc](#): > > But what if the problem is that CCP is just incompetent? Sadly, that might just be the case. That, or the focus of the actual coders is on something NEW ie not EvE. And who could blame them? So, just enjoy what is in the game, now, but be prepared to move on, eventually. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2023, 12:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/if-the-number-of-players-on-the-server-is-not-higher-by-this-time-next-year/416161/148 "2023-08-20T12:56:26Z")
> [@Tahiro](#): > > that sounds like a you issue, if you need 5 hours to make a few market orders. Gosh…what is the going rate for non sequiturs these days ? They seem to be far too easy to manufacture. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2023, 1:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/if-the-number-of-players-on-the-server-is-not-higher-by-this-time-next-year/416161/149 "2023-08-20T13:05:40Z")
> [@Dreg\_Apc](#): > > Or it is certainly a double edged sword, because you penalize the older character in order to benefit the newer one so what do you gain? Maybe the player with the older character is more likely to stop playing than a new player is likely to stay when you introduce this sort of discrimination 🤔 If thats the case and you are trying to gain players then you have just accomplished the opposite For once I agree…but then it’s a shame you don’t apply that logic across the board. Eve is not _just_ about retaining 1 week old noobs. It is about retaining the one month old, the six month old, the year old, and so on. And the _real issue_ is that the sort of things that might retain a one month old may well have an adverse affect on the 6 month old. If you make the game easier for the month old…you may well find the 6 month old, who has stuck with the game _precisely because_ of a sense of achievement in overcoming the difficulty, now finds the game too easy and that sense of achievement disappears and so does the player ! ---
**Author:** ![Erik\_Doshu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/erik_doshu/32/369845_2.png) [@Erik\_Doshu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Erik_Doshu)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2023, 9:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/if-the-number-of-players-on-the-server-is-not-higher-by-this-time-next-year/416161/150 "2023-08-20T21:13:17Z")
> [@Dreg\_Apc](#): > > Its just a matter of time. But it didnt have to be this way. For example Among Us was released waaaay before people starting playing it en masse. It was just there, waiting to be discovered or rediscovered. Same thing with EVE Online, except it hasnt improved over the years, its not going to get an influx of players its not going to go viral even tho it easily could with some hard work. Among Us - casual friendly “hop on / off” style arcade gameplay. Eve Online - “Harcore” PVP MMO with persistent singleshard universe, often famously dubbed as a “second job” of a learning curve since inception. Yeah, those are 2 totally comparable games … lmao Eve is never going to get “rediscovered” son, it is already widely accepted as Ancient History. The sooner you realize this, the better, trust me. Call it the “Pacman Effect” if you will … ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2023, 10:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/if-the-number-of-players-on-the-server-is-not-higher-by-this-time-next-year/416161/151 "2023-08-20T22:38:48Z")
**“If the number of players on the server is not higher by this time next year…”** …Betelgeuse will explode and wipe out all life within 120 light years ? ---
**Author:** ![Brun\_Warbear](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brun_warbear/32/380353_2.png) [@Brun\_Warbear](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brun_Warbear)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2023, 11:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/if-the-number-of-players-on-the-server-is-not-higher-by-this-time-next-year/416161/152 "2023-08-20T23:21:27Z")
> [@Dreg\_Apc](#): > > If the number of players are not higher on the server by this time next year then the CSM has failed and the concept should be abolished because the entire purpose behind it was to have them advise the devs in order to keep players from leaving Literally not what the CSM is for: > The Council of Stellar Management is a player advocacy group, consisting of 10 members democratically elected by the players to advise and assist CCP in the continuous development of EVE Online. The CSM brings focused and structured feedback from the community to CCP and represents their views and interests. ---
**Author:** ![Arkinium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arkinium/32/383040_2.png) [@Arkinium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arkinium)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2023, 11:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/if-the-number-of-players-on-the-server-is-not-higher-by-this-time-next-year/416161/153 "2023-08-20T23:45:57Z")
I logged into eve today for the first time in years. I have been playing this game on and off since 2003/2004 and officially stopped around 2014. Compared to how the game was, it is now trash. Within the first 10 minutes of being online I get “special offers” thrown at me, which included skill points, boosters and all that junk. Find out the subscription fee is now higher than any other MMO out there, and then another player asked me to eat their ass in local chat. All this before I step out of the station I was parked in. This game is no longer the revolutionary MMO wonder it used to be. It is now just like any other dated MMO, with a plethora of microtransactions and a toxic playerbase to boot. RIP. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2023, 11:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/if-the-number-of-players-on-the-server-is-not-higher-by-this-time-next-year/416161/154 "2023-08-20T23:59:02Z")
> [@Arkinium](#): > > I get “special offers” thrown at me Those “special offers” keep being pushed every time you log in. One would think they’d stop after a while but it actively makes using older character painful and annoying to use. ---
**Author:** ![Tahiro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tahiro/32/380789_2.png) [@Tahiro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tahiro)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2023, 7:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/if-the-number-of-players-on-the-server-is-not-higher-by-this-time-next-year/416161/155 "2023-08-21T07:08:45Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Gosh…what is the going rate for non sequiturs these days ? They seem to be far too easy to manufacture my explaination was certainly not very detailed, but i figured those pointers should be enough for a person with a little game knowledge and the abilty to do some basic math. i even tried to be polite at first and provided some numbers later. yet you still keep going, which indicates that you dont want to understand, dont have the ability to understand, or its about me and not those pointers i made. either way it seems like a waste of time. if you want a reasonable discusion with me, at least try to understand. glad no one tried to prove how bad selling sp is if they would subscribe with weekend packs only… gratz on that i guess though, 500plex/month is the second worst option afaik and no sane person needs 5 hour to make a few market orders either. ---
**Author:** ![Erik\_Doshu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/erik_doshu/32/369845_2.png) [@Erik\_Doshu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Erik_Doshu)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2023, 7:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/if-the-number-of-players-on-the-server-is-not-higher-by-this-time-next-year/416161/156 "2023-08-21T07:52:49Z")
160 LY to be exact. ---
**Author:** ![Erik\_Doshu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/erik_doshu/32/369845_2.png) [@Erik\_Doshu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Erik_Doshu)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2023, 7:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/if-the-number-of-players-on-the-server-is-not-higher-by-this-time-next-year/416161/157 "2023-08-21T07:54:43Z")
> [@Arkinium](#): > > I logged into eve today for the first time in years. I have been playing this game on and off since 2003/2004 and officially stopped around 2014. Compared to how the game was, it is now trash. > > Within the first 10 minutes of being online I get “special offers” thrown at me, which included skill points, boosters and all that junk. Find out the subscription fee is now higher than any other MMO out there, and then another player asked me to eat their ass in local chat. > > All this before I step out of the station I was parked in. > > This game is no longer the revolutionary MMO wonder it used to be. It is now just like any other dated MMO, with a plethora of microtransactions and a toxic playerbase to boot. > > RIP. Yup. Leave that game in the ground where it belongs. ---
**Author:** ![Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wes_wyhunnan/32/409400_2.png) [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wes_Wyhunnan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2023, 1:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/if-the-number-of-players-on-the-server-is-not-higher-by-this-time-next-year/416161/158 "2023-08-21T13:40:24Z")
@Arkinium and @Erik_Doshu Well…bye ---
**Author:** ![Erik\_Doshu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/erik_doshu/32/369845_2.png) [@Erik\_Doshu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Erik_Doshu)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2023, 2:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/if-the-number-of-players-on-the-server-is-not-higher-by-this-time-next-year/416161/159 "2023-08-21T14:22:44Z")
byebye ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 1:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/if-the-number-of-players-on-the-server-is-not-higher-by-this-time-next-year/416161/160 "2023-08-22T01:03:07Z")
> [@Tahiro](#): > > yet you still keep going, which indicates that you dont want to understand, dont have the ability to understand, or its about me and not those pointers i made. either way it seems like a waste of time. > > if you want a reasonable discusion with me, at least try to understand. Er, no, the person not understanding is you. It was you who interjected with a non sequitur comment that had nothing to do with the chain of comments ( which you can follow from the posts ) to which you responded. ---
**Author:** ![Aramatheia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aramatheia/32/383412_2.png) [@Aramatheia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aramatheia)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2023, 9:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/if-the-number-of-players-on-the-server-is-not-higher-by-this-time-next-year/416161/161 "2023-08-23T09:36:22Z")
> [@Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](#): > > Look at incursions, most people left. The committed stayed and created alts to multibox HQ sites. We are more alts than real people vs 2020. (COVID-19) I used to be a big time fleet runner. First BTL Pub, then TVP up untill 2014. From that point on things began to change. it started with pvp related drone control changes/nerfs. Could only command 5 flights of drones - down from the full fleets. Then it went into full on min max mode with cookie cutter fits. Last i saw even Warp To Me had gone down the path of cookie cutter min/max fits or get out. Its no wonder i “got out”. > [@Flatulent\_aberration](#): > > CCP’s research division just raised $40 M (in last 5-6 months) in external funding. Target is a blockchain-enabled web3 game. Centred on EvE or EvE-adjacent. One of the proposed attributes for any web3 game is player consensus would be needed before altering the game experience. That would make CSM-like activity redundant and put the power in the hands of “contemporary gamers”? If CCP really spent 40 million dollars on a next gen NFT simulator (which is what “blockchain-enabled game” means, then its pretty much a 40 million dollar development hit to what current products they have. The hype has evaporated and companies only go there now to wither and die. > [@Ciryc\_Lagrej](#): > > If you don’t give newer players anyway to close the skill gap it feels like you’ve lost before you even start. You’re so far behind that it’ll be years before you can realistically compete in a lot of areas. Oddly I dont necessarily agree here. The only exception as such is certain ships which do require bunches of lvl 5 skills. For the most part for most content it can be done adequately with all 4’s. SOme of these heavily loaded lvl 5 requirements arent really worth the half a year or so they take to train into. I think back to when i finally got to fly my zealot. It was nice, it was “better” than say a phantasm. But it wasnt half a year+ better. It didnt double the damage or resists. I wouldnt say its requirements need a nerf though and its been years since i used it. When i play eve these days i dont even use this character. This is just my most “veteran” and most played overall. > [@Erik\_Doshu](#): > > Eve Online - “Harcore” PVP MMO with persistent singleshard universe, often famously dubbed as a “second job” of a learning curve since inception. Never really understood that. Once you know the basics of combat orbiting and fitting theres not really much else to understand. Not untill the year+ later of training when you get promoted to doing jump bridges or whatever in null sec. I know the games joked about its spread sheets. But i never found it, technical. Its hardly a flight simulator. You dont even need a throttle for eve. Just double click nothing and off you go flying into the void. ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2023, 10:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/if-the-number-of-players-on-the-server-is-not-higher-by-this-time-next-year/416161/162 "2023-08-23T10:35:28Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > The only way to increase the player count (if it’s not too late at this point) is to remove non-consensual PvP (grief-play) from the game. So your suggestion to improve EVE is to remove the thing that makes EVE what it is? > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > It really isn’t rocket science why EVE isn’t doing well. Yes, because its a niche game that doesn’t appeal to the masses, if what you want is just WoW in space then there are probably other games that cater to that demographic, but that isn’t EVE ---
**Author:** ![Mina\_Tsunami](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mina_tsunami/32/501934_2.png) [@Mina\_Tsunami](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mina_Tsunami)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2023, 2:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/if-the-number-of-players-on-the-server-is-not-higher-by-this-time-next-year/416161/163 "2023-08-23T14:21:15Z")
Well fellas, Id like to say that speaking on the forums has been fun but id be lying. I think ill take a break from this as well. Enjoy your day. ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2023, 2:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/if-the-number-of-players-on-the-server-is-not-higher-by-this-time-next-year/416161/164 "2023-08-23T14:44:27Z")
Back on Pariah Omen then? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/if-the-number-of-players-on-the-server-is-not-higher-by-this-time-next-year/416161.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/if-the-number-of-players-on-the-server-is-not-higher-by-this-time-next-year/416161.md?page=9)