# Implant mechanics stop people from playing Eve - Solution **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Tags:** redesign, structures, game-mechanics\ **Created:** [July 22, 2019, 6:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/implant-mechanics-stop-people-from-playing-eve-solution/177248 "2019-07-22T06:47:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2019, 7:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/implant-mechanics-stop-people-from-playing-eve-solution/177248/62 "2019-07-24T19:09:26Z")
Indeed. Here’s the thing OP: if you take your risk aversion to the logical conclusion, you should never undock. You will be at no risk and progress at a set rate, at the trade-off you cannot earn anything from in-space activities since you never leave station. Clearly, that is sub-optimal as the richest players in the game do something in space, or interact with those that do and don’t just farm SP in the safety of a station. Finding the balance is the core gameplay of Eve. This is the game - navigating the trade-offs that CCP has engineered. The risk vs. reward. The effort vs. reward. Yes, never undocking and training at max rate will earn you X amount of ISK, but at what opportunity cost? Sure, I actually agree with you that setting up a trade-off of progression rate against undocking probably isn’t the best idea for stimulating activity in this game, and I am all for CCP revamping/deleting attributes and training boosts, but the fact you have to make a choice between two options each with different pluses and minuses is what Eve is all about. Undocking in +5s is pretty dumb now, given that Upwell structures allow infinite clone swaps. CCP has already nerfed most of the downside out of the trade-off. Sure, a few hours of training in a +3 clone or less comes with a small opportunity cost measured in ISK, but really the reward in fun or ISK should dwarf that. If you choose to not undock because there is a small opportunity cost and forgo having some fun in space or the ISK undocking can earn you, that is fine and your prerogative, but complaining you have to choose one thing or the other and can’t just have it all, is childish. So +1 for rejigging this tradeoff, but -1 to deleting such interesting choices from Eve. In fact, this game needs more meaningful choices and forced trade-offs, not more homogenization and ‘Everyone is a Winner!’ mechanics if it is going to last. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2019, 10:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/implant-mechanics-stop-people-from-playing-eve-solution/177248/63 "2019-07-24T22:16:02Z")
> [@Destriouth\_Hollow](#): > > There is no risk either way, just CCP encouraging us to stay docked as much as possible and miss out on some SP while pvping If all you’re going to do is stay docked and farm SP then why are you still “playing” EVE at all? Accumulating SP is a means to an end, not the goal of the game. Either stop obsessing about theoretical perfect SP per day and do something fun with your time or quit. ---
**Author:** ![Destriouth\_Hollow](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destriouth_hollow/32/211314_2.png) [@Destriouth\_Hollow](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destriouth_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 7:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/implant-mechanics-stop-people-from-playing-eve-solution/177248/64 "2019-07-26T07:02:01Z")
This isnt about good tradeoffs, choices etc… I no obviously I don’t stay docked all the time. CCP just in general should not reward ppl for staying docked as much as possible. That is not something that should be rewarded! And it clearly is right now. I agree with risk/reward and that what makes eve fun. But where is the risk in staying docked? Why is it rewarded? ---
**Author:** ![Nepsy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nepsy/32/302840_2.png) [@Nepsy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nepsy)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 6:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/implant-mechanics-stop-people-from-playing-eve-solution/177248/65 "2019-07-27T18:21:33Z")
> [@Destriouth\_Hollow](#): > > I agree with risk/reward and that what makes eve fun. But where is the risk in staying docked? Why is it rewarded? The risk is that SP farming might become unprofitable for a while, and if you happen to be doing training during that time then you’ll lose isk. It’s the same risk as with market trading, PI farming, indy and reactions. Passive forms of isk generating all carry the risk that the market might suddenly turn on them. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2019, 7:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/implant-mechanics-stop-people-from-playing-eve-solution/177248/66 "2019-07-28T07:57:26Z")
> [@Nepsy](#): > > and if you happen to be doing training during that time then you’ll lose isk no you wont. Unles you decide to not be careful and throw isks away. ---
**Author:** ![Vas\_Vadum](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vas_vadum/32/247829_2.png) [@Vas\_Vadum](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vas_Vadum)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2019, 7:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/implant-mechanics-stop-people-from-playing-eve-solution/177248/67 "2019-08-05T07:53:14Z")
> [@Destriouth\_Hollow](#): > > As it is +5 implants GREATLY boost your skilling time while costing a noticable chunk of isk. Therefore I want to maximize my time beeing in my +5 pod to max my skill progression and I don’t want to have to replace the pod. I’m gonna stop reading here, because I have been in my +5s pod with all 10 slots being +5s for 5-6 years. Even when I lived in nullsec for 2-3 years. I never had the ISK to replace my implants either. Nor do I have alts to do scouting for me because that is cheaty. I asked people to scout for me, you know, team work. I scouted myself using warp to mechanics, I made sure to move around safely. In highsec, I am always in my +5s pod, because it is safe. Gankers don’t want to take the -2 sec status hit for killing a pod, they would rather be able to go pop another mining ship quickly and not have to go grind their sec status back up. It is true, you shouldn’t fly something you are afraid of losing, but if you are smart, watch your local chat for very bad people, you will be safe. Of course nullsec is now even more dangerous making scouting a bit harder, but at the same time it is also more safe, because the enemy can no longer see you in the system. Unless of course you pop into a system and start singing in local chat to inform everyone you’re there just for giggles and watch everyone panic and flee back to their stations. But I mean thats just fun. You can switch clones instantly in your upwell structures, so there is no cooldown or reason to make changes here. You dock, pop into your clone, log off for the night. Log back in, pop into your slaves clone, go about your day doing your stuff. I really see no advantage to docking and not having to change into your other clone to learn faster. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2019, 12:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/implant-mechanics-stop-people-from-playing-eve-solution/177248/68 "2019-08-05T12:07:30Z")
> [@Vas\_Vadum](#): > > You can switch clones instantly in your upwell structures, so there is no cooldown or reason to make changes here. You dock, pop into your clone, log off for the night. Log back in, pop into your slaves clone, go about your day doing your stuff. I really see no advantage to docking and not having to change into your other clone to learn faster. Because you lose SP by playing. Unless you stop your skill queue and start it on another toon. ---
**Author:** ![Vas\_Vadum](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vas_vadum/32/247829_2.png) [@Vas\_Vadum](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vas_Vadum)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2019, 1:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/implant-mechanics-stop-people-from-playing-eve-solution/177248/69 "2019-08-05T13:12:41Z")
He doesn’t want SP while playing. He wants you to gain the use of your +5s while in a home upwell structure that also has your +5 pod in it. Which makes no sense, because you can switch instantly to your pod anyway while you are there and switch back instantly when you are read to leave. There’s no reason for this to be done as it is already possible. You just have to switch to your +5s clone while docked at your upwell structure. Honestly, if you want the faster learning, you have to choose between your special implants or your learning implants. Its as simple as that. Learn faster, or have ship bonuses. Risk high ISK value pods, or hide your implants away safely. Its all a choice. What he wants does virtually nothing to the game. Removing learning implants would be impossible, and piss off a lot of people such as myself who paid for these implants and worked hard to keep them for so long all because someone else is too scared to undock with them or rather can’t handle a slight loss in training time while he plays. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2019, 1:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/implant-mechanics-stop-people-from-playing-eve-solution/177248/70 "2019-08-05T13:54:21Z")
> [@Vas\_Vadum](#): > > He doesn’t want SP while playing. Yes he does. Everybody does. Just because you are playing should not be a reason to reduce your SP gain. > [@Vas\_Vadum](#): > > Honestly, if you want the faster learning, you have to choose between your special implants or your learning implants. Its as simple as that. Learn faster, or have ship bonuses. Nope. If you want to have faster learning, you should not play with the character. It’s simple as that. And that is precisely the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Vas\_Vadum](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vas_vadum/32/247829_2.png) [@Vas\_Vadum](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vas_Vadum)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2019, 2:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/implant-mechanics-stop-people-from-playing-eve-solution/177248/71 "2019-08-05T14:38:37Z")
I just said I play fine with my +5s. For years. even in nullsec. No issues. So. Why can’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2019, 2:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/implant-mechanics-stop-people-from-playing-eve-solution/177248/72 "2019-08-05T14:41:12Z")
Who said I can’t? And it’s not even remotely related to the topic. ---
**Author:** ![Vas\_Vadum](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vas_vadum/32/247829_2.png) [@Vas\_Vadum](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vas_Vadum)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2019, 11:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/implant-mechanics-stop-people-from-playing-eve-solution/177248/73 "2019-08-05T23:17:04Z")
Are you here to stir up trouble every time I speak somewhere? I read the primary post of this thread. > [@Destriouth\_Hollow](#): > > Allow people to benefit from their learning implants, if they are inside an upwell structure that is set as their home station. Upwell structure, because then people could still destroy the pods. Obviously benefits from hardwiring implants and pirate implants (slave etc) still need to be with you to grant the bonis, as they would be op otherwise. _“Allow people docked with their clones to benefit from their clones implants while in a station that already lets you bypass timer limits for swapping clones to benefit you with your implants from another clone without switching to your clone.”_ Thats what it looked like he said to me. Unless he is saying _“allow us to benefit from our max implants as long as we are docked at a station we set as home no matter where our clone is”_. Which would be exploited by setting any station as your home. But I don’t think thats what he’s saying, I’m pretty sure its the first one. > [@Destriouth\_Hollow](#): > > Or just remove learning implants completly to remove the bad taste in my mouth ^^ Also not going to happen. I’m pretty sure this was a joke but if it wasn’t it would mean that he wants to remove everyone’s billion ISK implants because he is afraid to use them while undocked. It is entirely related to the topic. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 9:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/implant-mechanics-stop-people-from-playing-eve-solution/177248/74 "2019-08-06T09:43:51Z")
> [@Vas\_Vadum](#): > > Are you here to stir up trouble every time I speak somewhere? I read the primary post of this thread. Who gives a shot about yourself ? Stop being so self centered. > [@Vas\_Vadum](#): > > But I don’t think thats what he’s saying, I’m pretty sure its the first one. I did not even try to understand this part, because it involves a lot of conditional and is just not possible (what if several clones ? what if the station is destroyed when logged off ?). So I just went with “remove them” and the argument for their removal. I am not pro- or against- their removal, still there are some issues with them - one of them being > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > you lose SP by playing. So when you say : > [@Vas\_Vadum](#): > > It is entirely related to the topic. this : > [@Vas\_Vadum](#): > > I just said I play fine with my +5s. For years. even in nullsec. No issues. > > So. Why can’t you? is not on topic. ---
**Author:** ![Destriouth\_Hollow](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destriouth_hollow/32/211314_2.png) [@Destriouth\_Hollow](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destriouth_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 11:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/implant-mechanics-stop-people-from-playing-eve-solution/177248/75 "2019-08-17T23:31:54Z")
> [@Vas\_Vadum](#): > > ure its t @Vas Vadum Actually no it’s neither one of these. I ment “Use learning implants sitting in your home (upwell) station while beeing UNDOCKED”. While beeing docked, as you correctly said, would have no purpose. We can already use them while beeing docked. @Anderson_Geten Thank you. You seem to understand what I’m saying and thinking perfectly. Current game mechanics leave you with 3 choices: 1. Don’t play eve and train at max speed with +5s 2. Play eve and train at max speed with 5s, but risk additional 500million isk no matter what ship you fly 3. Play eve and skill slower as you would beeing docked with your +5s. Active playing reduces your SP-gain If you actually want to actively play eve and undock you have to either gain less skillpoints or risk a lot of additional isk. If you stay docked you risk nothing and gain maximal SP. Therefore people are currently punished for undocking. Of course playing eve makes no sense if you never undock, but the game should not reward ppl for not playing! ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 11:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/implant-mechanics-stop-people-from-playing-eve-solution/177248/76 "2019-08-17T23:36:27Z")
Indeed, I understand the issue good enough to be able to correct the loss value. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > nope. > > The loss is in raw SP/h. > it’s exactly 3SP/min, thus 180 SP/h. > large injector is bought 880M, skill extractor sold 436M, net gain is 880 \* 0.97-436 = 417M for 500k SP. > 417 \* 180/500 000 = 0.15 > You are losing 0.15M/h when using +3 instead of +5. > #whatashame Again, I have no horse in the race, just think your opinion is worth to be told as much as anybody else. ---
**Author:** ![Nepsy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nepsy/32/302840_2.png) [@Nepsy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nepsy)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 11:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/implant-mechanics-stop-people-from-playing-eve-solution/177248/77 "2019-08-17T23:36:35Z")
> [@Destriouth\_Hollow](#): > > If other people are earning more than me passively because I want to both do pvp AND earn sp AND have no risk, then something needs to be changed so that those other people don’t earn more than me I think it’s clearer if you just say your intent. ---
**Author:** ![Destriouth\_Hollow](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destriouth_hollow/32/211314_2.png) [@Destriouth\_Hollow](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destriouth_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 11:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/implant-mechanics-stop-people-from-playing-eve-solution/177248/78 "2019-08-17T23:44:02Z")
@Nepsy My intent? I think my intent and reasons for even bringing this up are lingering between my calculation and my idea. The intent is: CCP stops punishing People for undocking =\> More people undock =\> Eve space becomes more active and fun =\> More people start playing and continue playing eve =\> CCP earns more money with Eve =\> Eve survives longer =\> I can continue to play eve and use my assets in the future (: ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 11:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/implant-mechanics-stop-people-from-playing-eve-solution/177248/79 "2019-08-17T23:48:15Z")
Your intent is to give the same SP/h whether you are docked, logged off, or killing people in the NS and ready to be killed yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Destriouth\_Hollow](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destriouth_hollow/32/211314_2.png) [@Destriouth\_Hollow](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destriouth_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 11:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/implant-mechanics-stop-people-from-playing-eve-solution/177248/80 "2019-08-17T23:53:17Z")
@Anderson Geten Yes and no. What you are saying is what would happen with my idea. I however wouldn’t mind if people, who are actually killing stuff and are ready to die themselves (lose ships) gained MORE SP than people staying docked or beeing logged off. Currently however it’s the other way around and that is imho very wrong and unacceptable. Both SP-gains beeing equal is however at least acceptable. (: ---
**Author:** ![Nepsy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nepsy/32/302840_2.png) [@Nepsy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nepsy)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 12:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/implant-mechanics-stop-people-from-playing-eve-solution/177248/81 "2019-08-18T00:02:04Z")
> [@Destriouth\_Hollow](#): > > Both SP-gains beeing equal is however at least acceptable. (: So basically, since other people gain more SP than you it’s unacceptable? It’s pretty obvious what you want, but there’s nothing stopping you from plugging in +5’s for pvp. Sure, you might lose them but that’s just a risk you gotta take [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/implant-mechanics-stop-people-from-playing-eve-solution/177248.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/implant-mechanics-stop-people-from-playing-eve-solution/177248.md?page=5)