# In regard of Imperial slave raids and public uproar, call to Capsuleer Forces! **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [October 22, 2019, 4:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-regard-of-imperial-slave-raids-and-public-uproar-call-to-capsuleer-forces/197073 "2019-10-22T16:31:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Anna\_Stjornauga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anna_stjornauga/32/377304_2.png) [@Anna\_Stjornauga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anna_Stjornauga)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 10:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-regard-of-imperial-slave-raids-and-public-uproar-call-to-capsuleer-forces/197073/43 "2019-10-23T22:21:25Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > Oh well, these are more personal relations than title-induced. > > ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/5/0/506fe7fb2f8a373ba7241dacbb27c75a5010d2ec.jpeg) Anna\_Stjornauga: Yes, but within the Imperial structure, the titles he holds convey, and are results of, precisely those kinds of relations. > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > What was for me a “red flag” is foreigners (as not being from Empire) raising cry like it’s very “wrong” thing that is happening, especially when they ignore what Federals do. Lord Gallus (Utari Onzo) is an _Amarr_ Holder. And the civilians being targeted are citizens of the Republic. Surely it is not inappropriate for Republic-aligned parties to inquire with CONCORD as to whether or not the actions being threatened against Republic citizens are illegal under CONCORD treaties, is it? After all, if Amarr enslavement of Republic non-combatants is an internal matter, then Federal treatment of Caldari non-combatants is an internal matter as well. ---
**Author:** ![Kebbert\_Tsukino](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kebbert_tsukino/32/168721_2.png) [@Kebbert\_Tsukino](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kebbert_Tsukino)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 10:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-regard-of-imperial-slave-raids-and-public-uproar-call-to-capsuleer-forces/197073/44 "2019-10-23T22:25:23Z")
> [@Tyrel\_Toov](#): > > I’m sure that your two countries alliance will spare you. I have no reason to doubt our allies. We have dealt with them honorably for our part, and there is nothing in their culture to suggest that honor is a character they do not respect. ---
**Author:** ![Anna\_Stjornauga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anna_stjornauga/32/377304_2.png) [@Anna\_Stjornauga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anna_Stjornauga)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 10:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-regard-of-imperial-slave-raids-and-public-uproar-call-to-capsuleer-forces/197073/45 "2019-10-23T22:40:37Z")
> [@Kebbert\_Tsukino](#): > > there is nothing in their culture to suggest that honor is a character they do not respect. Except their possible failure to honor their CONCORD treaty obligations. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 10:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-regard-of-imperial-slave-raids-and-public-uproar-call-to-capsuleer-forces/197073/46 "2019-10-23T22:42:17Z")
> [@Anna\_Stjornauga](#): > > Yes, but within the Imperial structure, the titles he holds convey, and are results of, precisely those kinds of relations. I really consider personal relations are unprofessional and unfit for proper business or military structures. > [@Anna\_Stjornauga](#): > > Lord Gallus (Utari Onzo) is an _Amarr_ Holder. And the civilians being targeted are citizens of the Republic. Surely it is not inappropriate for Republic-aligned parties to inquire with CONCORD as to whether or not the actions being threatened against Republic citizens are illegal under CONCORD treaties, is it? After all, if Amarr enslavement of Republic non-combatants is an internal matter, then Federal treatment of Caldari non-combatants is an internal matter as well. While I do not consider Lord Gallus merited or honorable, I surely didn’t mean his person, but rather than the number and quality of people commenting in all these threads. There were traitors, there were even people who were openly admitting in the goals of inciting revolts in Empire, and so on and so on… I am still not completely convinced that Lord Sarum’s actions will involve enslaving innocents, rather than looking for guerilla, etc. But even if they are… did anyone hit finger by finger to stop Federal atrocities in regard of Prisoners of War and genocide of colonists by Death Squards?.. Just think about that. All this happening in the warzone. Tortures, genocide. We speak, and gallente do that. But one Amarr Lord only SAID about enslaving people and they blow up, without Lord Sarum even enslaving anyone on that planet, legally or ilegally! Is this like… for real? It feels like it’s a crowd of fanatics with tunnel vision who yell at Amarr authority even before they do something with ignoring real atrocities that are happening. ---
**Author:** ![Anna\_Stjornauga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anna_stjornauga/32/377304_2.png) [@Anna\_Stjornauga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anna_Stjornauga)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 11:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-regard-of-imperial-slave-raids-and-public-uproar-call-to-capsuleer-forces/197073/47 "2019-10-23T23:12:28Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > I really consider personal relations are unprofessional and unfit for proper business or military structures. An understandable position, Commander. However, those relations _do_ exert significant influence among many groups across New Eden. Not everyone is as… dedicated to professionalism as you are. > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > But even if they are… did anyone hit finger by finger to stop Federal atrocities in regard of Prisoners of War and genocide of colonists by Death Squards?.. Should one failure beget another? If so, then there would never be any chance for wrongs to be redressed. A single mistake—such as an intemperate insult—would _need_ to be met with further hostility, without the chance for resolution. And that hostility, then, would require response with yet more hostility. ‘One Amarr Lord’, you say. That Amarr Lord has, as the Empress has indicated, ‘supreme command authority within [the Metropolis warzone] subject only to commands of the Imperial Throne’. Unless the Empress herself says otherwise, his word _is_ law—even if that word contradicts international treaties. As a result, people are asking for clarification in order to _prevent_ an atrocity before it happens. No-one is saying that there should not be similar efforts to stop the Federal abuses. Rather, they seek only to reaffirm the primacy of the civilized international laws to which all our nations have agreed. Perhaps, if such a thing can be achieved _before_ the atrocity happens, then that decision from CONCORD can be used to force an _end_ to Federal atrocities, and save Caldari lives, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Valiran\_Teleros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valiran_teleros/32/504787_2.png) [@Valiran\_Teleros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valiran_Teleros)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 1:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-regard-of-imperial-slave-raids-and-public-uproar-call-to-capsuleer-forces/197073/48 "2019-10-24T01:58:34Z")
> [@Cassie\_Bourschied](#): > > presumably your heart bleeds with love for the Empire and its laws ? Otherwise , what rubbish are you on about barrack - room lawyer ? I readily admit that I have no particular love for the Amarr Empire, which is an attitude that stems primarily from their abhorrent practice of slavery. I am also aware that no individual or group in New Eden appears to possess both the desire _and_ the ability to force its capitulation on the matter, so unless the whole of Amarr space erupts into a civil war and _implodes_ they aren’t going away any time soon. Now, since the Amarr Empire is _obviously_ not going to ban that awful practice, nor does it show any signs of utterly collapsing, the rest of New Eden has to settle for finding ways to convince and/or make them be _less_ awful. One of the ways this has been accomplished is by getting the Empire to sign treaties that forbade the taking of slaves outside of Amarr territory. Which did not prevent some Holder who thought they were above those treaties sending their personal fleet into Federation territory on a slave raid, with support from a Caldari corporation, no less! > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > He cannot do this, because this will be in violation of Amarr laws! Yes, he _can_ do it, because the laws we’re talking about are not the laws of physics. If people were literally incapable of committing illegal acts then pirates would not exist. But they do. And, just like any pirate, Lord Sarum has no intention of obeying laws he doesn’t like unless someone with the power to do so is willing to _make_ him. > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > I am still not completely convinced that Lord Sarum’s actions will involve enslaving innocents, rather than looking for guerilla, etc. But even if they are… did anyone hit finger by finger to stop Federal atrocities in regard of Prisoners of War and genocide of colonists by Death Squards?.. > > Just think about that. All this happening in the warzone. Tortures, genocide. We speak, and gallente do that. But one Amarr Lord only SAID about enslaving people and they blow up, without Lord Sarum even enslaving anyone on that planet, legally or ilegally! Is this like… for real? It feels like it’s a crowd of fanatics with tunnel vision who yell at Amarr authority even before they do something with ignoring real atrocities that are happening. So, to make sure I understand your position here: you see two atrocities being committed, but one is being ignored while another gets the spotlight, which is intolerably galling to you because the atrocity no one seems to be paying attention to is being against your own people. Not just inhabitants of the Caldari State, but your brothers- and sisters-in-arms. Am I correct in this? ---
**Author:** ![Astaire\_Quatrevaux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/astaire_quatrevaux/32/278706_2.png) [@Astaire\_Quatrevaux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Astaire_Quatrevaux)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 2:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-regard-of-imperial-slave-raids-and-public-uproar-call-to-capsuleer-forces/197073/49 "2019-10-24T02:12:17Z")
> [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > Do the State seem especially likely to foment rebellions or bombard Mekhios from orbit for instance? > It was a little more than the situation not being advantageous. You do realize that Mekhios and the other rebellions happened _after_ Amarr invaded the Minmatar Empire for no reason aside from “you are less than us”, right? ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 4:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-regard-of-imperial-slave-raids-and-public-uproar-call-to-capsuleer-forces/197073/50 "2019-10-24T04:40:29Z")
And after the conclusion of a peace that had lasted centuries. Or are the minmatar not obligated to meet the terms of agreements they reach? ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 5:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-regard-of-imperial-slave-raids-and-public-uproar-call-to-capsuleer-forces/197073/51 "2019-10-24T05:09:50Z")
If your making an allusion to the Elder fleet, you realize that wasn’t sanctioned by the Republic proper right? Should we justify vilifying the Amarr by the actions of blooders or Nauplius? Since that’s what your doing if that is the case. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 5:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-regard-of-imperial-slave-raids-and-public-uproar-call-to-capsuleer-forces/197073/52 "2019-10-24T05:16:36Z")
Nauplius is not now the dominant force in Imperial politics. Can you say the same of the network who supported the Elder Fleet with respect to the Republic? ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 5:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-regard-of-imperial-slave-raids-and-public-uproar-call-to-capsuleer-forces/197073/53 "2019-10-24T05:37:28Z")
No we can’t as any connections would be disingenuous as they acted on their own accord. In fact their theft from our Republic, while many including myself agreed with their premise was still an attack on our people. What we have here is an attack on our Republic indirectly as it leeched funding from us and causing trouble for your own as well as giving you a scapegoat to blame us. How are those blooders within your ranks? Alar seems to be living a decent life on your Theology Council. Don’t blame us for rot you can find within your house as well. Corruption and politics go hand in hand. Your claims are not as solid as you seem to think. This is merely _your_ Elder fleet on our doorstep. Don’t worry, well react a little _different._ We don’t need miracles and we sure aren’t going anywhere. Like the past it requires corruption to begin. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 5:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-regard-of-imperial-slave-raids-and-public-uproar-call-to-capsuleer-forces/197073/54 "2019-10-24T05:48:47Z")
The “peace” between the Empire and the Republic was not a peace, because while the Amarr Empire formally signed a peace treaty, they did not have their vassal state of Ammatar Mandate do the same. _I_ remember the Battle of Tears, I was already in the academy then, and many of us who now fly indie _fought_ in it. ---
**Author:** ![Valiran\_Teleros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valiran_teleros/32/504787_2.png) [@Valiran\_Teleros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valiran_Teleros)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 5:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-regard-of-imperial-slave-raids-and-public-uproar-call-to-capsuleer-forces/197073/55 "2019-10-24T05:50:51Z")
> [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > Nauplius is not now the dominant force in Imperial politics. Can you say the same of the network who supported the Elder Fleet with respect to the Republic? I still can’t wrap my head around how they pulled that off. How did _no one notice_ where all those funds and materiel were going? ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 6:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-regard-of-imperial-slave-raids-and-public-uproar-call-to-capsuleer-forces/197073/56 "2019-10-24T06:13:28Z")
You grasp the crux of why I’ve never accepted that the Republic did not know. A significant part of it couldn’t possibly have been ignorant of that fleet. ---
**Author:** ![Valiran\_Teleros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valiran_teleros/32/504787_2.png) [@Valiran\_Teleros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valiran_Teleros)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 6:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-regard-of-imperial-slave-raids-and-public-uproar-call-to-capsuleer-forces/197073/57 "2019-10-24T06:28:29Z")
Yes, but how the hell was it kept secret from everybody who might have talked about it? Honestly, nearly every major event that occurred in the months surrounding the Elder War was like the plot of a bad holoreel come to life. ---
**Author:** ![Ange\_des\_Larmes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ange_des_larmes/32/304752_2.png) [@Ange\_des\_Larmes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ange_des_Larmes)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 6:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-regard-of-imperial-slave-raids-and-public-uproar-call-to-capsuleer-forces/197073/58 "2019-10-24T06:30:10Z")
Never underestimate the power of corruption, incompetence and ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Utari\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/utari_onzo/32/378493_2.png) [@Utari\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Utari_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 7:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-regard-of-imperial-slave-raids-and-public-uproar-call-to-capsuleer-forces/197073/59 "2019-10-24T07:07:38Z")
I would like to state once again my legal question is purely asking for clarification on what the laws says, and in no way is trying to enforce any action, or prevent any action. It stands on its own merit as simply asking what is the law. Please don’t mischaracterise it as the same as any of the other petitions on going. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 7:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-regard-of-imperial-slave-raids-and-public-uproar-call-to-capsuleer-forces/197073/60 "2019-10-24T07:59:32Z")
> [@Astaire\_Quatrevaux](#): > > You do realize that Mekhios and the other rebellions happened _after_ Amarr invaded the Minmatar Empire for no reason aside from “you are less than us”, right? Just no. Your incompetence and ignorance is appaling, gallentean. No. Go buy yourself a history book for the events that happened in last two decades. It wasn’t even rebellion, it was invasion. Though I don’t know why I am trying to educate such a person who just yells at others without trying to understand what they were talking about. Just… go away. ---
**Author:** ![Astaire\_Quatrevaux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/astaire_quatrevaux/32/278706_2.png) [@Astaire\_Quatrevaux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Astaire_Quatrevaux)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 12:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-regard-of-imperial-slave-raids-and-public-uproar-call-to-capsuleer-forces/197073/61 "2019-10-24T12:04:29Z")
You liked me a lot more when you thought I was Caldari. I’d explain why you’re wrong, but the past few posts literally already elaborate on that. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2019, 1:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-regard-of-imperial-slave-raids-and-public-uproar-call-to-capsuleer-forces/197073/62 "2019-10-24T13:21:52Z")
Let me guess, I am “wrong” because I am Caldari and like a good gallentean lapdog you hate whenever Caldari are right? And nope, I don’t like you because of your antics in a different thread. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-regard-of-imperial-slave-raids-and-public-uproar-call-to-capsuleer-forces/197073.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-regard-of-imperial-slave-raids-and-public-uproar-call-to-capsuleer-forces/197073.md?page=4)