# In the skies of Kahah, a message shall be sent **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [November 3, 2018, 4:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-the-skies-of-kahah-a-message-shall-be-sent/117966 "2018-11-03T16:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 8:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-the-skies-of-kahah-a-message-shall-be-sent/117966/21 "2018-11-05T08:45:41Z")
Ah nuts I replied to the wrong thread. ---
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2018, 11:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-the-skies-of-kahah-a-message-shall-be-sent/117966/22 "2018-11-05T11:35:47Z")
God spit on you, blooder. And God spit on Catiz, for having refused to do anything about this when she had the chance. ---
**Author:** ![Che\_Biko](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/che_biko/32/500836_2.png) [@Che\_Biko](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Che_Biko)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 3:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-the-skies-of-kahah-a-message-shall-be-sent/117966/23 "2018-11-06T03:04:00Z")
I know it matters little, but for the time being, I’ve honored those who saved people at Kahah that day by awarding the last rescue mention on the C3SRC channel to those individuals or organizations who helped save those lives. ---
**Author:** ![Anabella\_Rella](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anabella_rella/32/515671_2.png) [@Anabella\_Rella](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anabella_Rella)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 5:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-the-skies-of-kahah-a-message-shall-be-sent/117966/24 "2018-11-06T05:54:24Z")
The slavers are sure cooking up some crazies with delusions of grandeur lately. My goodness. 🤪 ---
**Author:** ![Ada\_Kardh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ada_kardh/32/105420_2.png) [@Ada\_Kardh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ada_Kardh)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 11:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-the-skies-of-kahah-a-message-shall-be-sent/117966/25 "2018-11-07T11:33:55Z")
Drying a tear is more honorable than shedding streams of blood. (George Gordon Byron) There is neither honor nor glory, they murdered them ruthlessly. Who holds slaves, is also responsible for their actions and whoever drowned that responsibility in blood is a traitor. [Amarr Victor.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHjFIwbvzo8) ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 11:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-the-skies-of-kahah-a-message-shall-be-sent/117966/26 "2018-11-07T11:45:06Z")
> [@Anabella\_Rella](#): > > The slavers are sure cooking up some crazies with delusions of grandeur lately To be honest, so are the freedom fighters… ---
**Author:** ![edeity](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/edeity/32/251884_2.png) [@edeity](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/edeity)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 7:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-the-skies-of-kahah-a-message-shall-be-sent/117966/27 "2018-11-07T19:08:26Z")
> [@Nauplius](#): > > I was shown a transcript of the speech made by “The Lord’s Speaker” over Kahah. I did not detect any unorthodox content in that speech. Ultra-conservative, yes. A controversial counter-terrorism tactic, yes. But unorthodox? I am not convinced by the accusations that he and his associates in this matter are Blood Raiders. As a member of the 24th of many years and former member of Fweddit I should like to echo the importance of not rushing to condemn actions. One must be measured in appreciating the nuances of diplomacy especially in such complicated affairs. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 7:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-the-skies-of-kahah-a-message-shall-be-sent/117966/28 "2018-11-07T19:12:57Z")
Hey look, it’s that _other_ guy making the militias into a pathetic joke. ---
**Author:** ![edeity](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/edeity/32/251884_2.png) [@edeity](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/edeity)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-the-skies-of-kahah-a-message-shall-be-sent/117966/29 "2018-11-07T19:15:06Z")
You seem unhappy. Do you need a friend? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-the-skies-of-kahah-a-message-shall-be-sent/117966/30 "2018-11-07T20:53:34Z")
> [@Nauplius](#): > > A controversial counter-terrorism tactic, yes. Out of curiosity, Napkins, how does it qualify as a counterterrorism tactic to buy slaves elsewhere, haul them into Kahah, and self-destruct the ships in front of a bunch of AmarrMil pilots trying to prevent it? How exactly does that address terrorism at all? ---
**Author:** ![Nauplius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nauplius/32/403015_2.png) [@Nauplius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nauplius)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 9:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-the-skies-of-kahah-a-message-shall-be-sent/117966/31 "2018-11-07T21:18:55Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Out of curiosity, Napkins, how does it qualify as a counterterrorism tactic to buy slaves elsewhere, haul them into Kahah, and self-destruct the ships in front of a bunch of AmarrMil pilots trying to prevent it? How exactly does that address terrorism at all? Collective Punishment is a standard counter-terrorism tactic. Like all counter-terrorism tactics, it may work in some situations and not in others. When it works, it works by: - Deterring terrorism with the knowledge that kinsmen of the terrorists will be punished. - Reducing support for the terrorists by civilian sympathizers who are on the receiving end of the collective punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2018, 9:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-the-skies-of-kahah-a-message-shall-be-sent/117966/32 "2018-11-07T21:57:06Z")
> [@Nauplius](#): > > Collective Punishment is a standard counter-terrorism tactic. Like all counter-terrorism tactics, it may work in some situations and not in others. When it works, it works by: > > - Deterring terrorism with the knowledge that kinsmen of the terrorists will be punished. > - Reducing support for the terrorists by civilian sympathizers who are on the receiving end of the collective punishment. And now let’s look at Fweddit’s actions. 1. The slave populations within Kahah are, presumably, more or less established. With perhaps some small number of exceptions, they are not recent imports. Do you think they consider newly-purchased slaves being held by capsuleers—neither their owners, nor the vassals of their owners—to be close kinsmen? 2. None of those on the receiving end survived. It can be conclusively demonstrated that not a single survivor of this punishment felt less supportive of the rebels afterwards _because there were none_. So, again, in what way does this action _on the part of independent capsuleers_ constitute counter-terrorism, as the victims had no connection to the _terrorists_—the Blood Raiders—or their victims, who then rebelled against _indiscriminate brutality_? Let’s keep in mind, after all, that ‘terrorists’ require _terrorism_, and terrorism is the use or threat of violence against civilian populations or the institutions of government with the goal of _causing widespread fear_ in order to advance—or create pressure to advance—a political agenda. The agenda of the rebels was ‘please stop killing those of us who didn’t do anything’. Survival isn’t exactly a political agenda, and a bunch of slave revolts in one system that nobody cares about[1] aren’t going to cause widespread fear. On the other hand, the indiscriminate murder of innocent, law-abiding people who simply happen to be of the same social and ethnic grouping as a bunch of victims of a chemical attack with the intention of cowing the population through fear of violence… … yeah, that one kinda fits as ‘terrorism’, don’t it? * * * 1. I know it’s an important system to the Khanid. I know the Khanid Kingdom is one of the tech leaders of the Amarr Empire. I know many people in the Empire’s political classes consider one of the primary agricultural systems of the Kingdom to be significant. I sincerely doubt anyone the State or Federation cares about Kahah at all beyond this recent chain of events, and that the Republic feels much the same way beyond the whole ‘our people are enslaved there’ issue. Further, I’d be willing to bet the vast majority of capsuleers in all sections of space heard ‘Kahah’ and went ‘where?’ The percentage of human beings in the cluster who care about the system _in general_ [as in, outside of this instance and the general question of slavery] is _insignificant_. Nobody cares about this system. ---
**Author:** ![edeity](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/edeity/32/251884_2.png) [@edeity](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/edeity)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 5:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-the-skies-of-kahah-a-message-shall-be-sent/117966/33 "2018-11-08T05:32:06Z")
Brothers and sisters of Fweddit - let us join together again in purpose. Your cause is noble. Your means are just. May the ends justify the memes. Pax Amarr. ---
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 5:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-the-skies-of-kahah-a-message-shall-be-sent/117966/34 "2018-11-08T05:41:29Z")
> [@edeity](#): > > Pax I really wonder if you know what this means. ---
**Author:** ![Garion\_Avarr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/garion_avarr/32/415302_2.png) [@Garion\_Avarr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Garion_Avarr)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 6:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-the-skies-of-kahah-a-message-shall-be-sent/117966/35 "2018-11-08T06:00:38Z")
Well, ‘pax,’ in Amarish and related languages has a meaning most closely akin to ‘promise,’ but of course the common association here is the Pax Amarria (‘Promise of the Amarr’), which is rather contrary to the spirit expressed here, though perhaps he meant something different by ‘Pax Amarr’? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 6:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-the-skies-of-kahah-a-message-shall-be-sent/117966/36 "2018-11-08T06:38:07Z")
I was taught Pax was ‘peace’, which is why Heideran VII’s book about “his hopes and dreams for peace throughout the galaxy” was so significant. ---
**Author:** ![Fiona\_Gladius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fiona_gladius/32/279240_2.png) [@Fiona\_Gladius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fiona_Gladius)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 6:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-the-skies-of-kahah-a-message-shall-be-sent/117966/37 "2018-11-08T06:51:59Z")
After extensive security analysis, this platform has concluded that no outside entity has gained access to our hardware and thus does not have control of any of our processes. “Master of All” does not register as a valid title. ---
**Author:** ![Nauplius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nauplius/32/403015_2.png) [@Nauplius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nauplius)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 12:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-the-skies-of-kahah-a-message-shall-be-sent/117966/38 "2018-11-08T12:53:09Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > The slave populations within Kahah are, presumably, more or less established. With perhaps some small number of exceptions, they are not recent imports. Do you think they consider newly-purchased slaves being held by capsuleers—neither their owners, nor the vassals of their owners—to be close kinsmen? This is a fair point, and is part of the motivation behind my proposal for a Strategic Collective Punishment Reserve, so that those seeking to inflict collective punishment could dial in an more precise pool of slaves (planet of origin, Holder, religion, clan, gender, bloodline, etc.) upon whom to inflict the punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 1:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-the-skies-of-kahah-a-message-shall-be-sent/117966/39 "2018-11-08T13:20:22Z")
Nobody involved in this was interested in ‘collective punishment’, Napkins. They just wanted to kill Minmatar for fun. I’m sure you can understand that. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 1:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-the-skies-of-kahah-a-message-shall-be-sent/117966/40 "2018-11-08T13:32:12Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > I was taught Pax was ‘peace’, which is why Heideran VII’s book about “his hopes and dreams for peace throughout the galaxy” was so significant. Me too. I wonder if the two concepts might be a little entangled somehow? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-the-skies-of-kahah-a-message-shall-be-sent/117966.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/in-the-skies-of-kahah-a-message-shall-be-sent/117966.md?page=3)