# Incoming Changes to the Orca **URL:** \ **Category:** Mining & Extraction\ **Created:** [March 5, 2021, 2:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741 "2021-03-05T02:07:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Zayisha\_Andara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zayisha_andara/32/249831_2.png) [@Zayisha\_Andara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zayisha_Andara)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/391 "2021-03-18T18:00:31Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > “_It’s not AFK because I have to set it up_” is not a valid response. Claiming the set up only took 8 clicks is giving misleading and false test results. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 6:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/392 "2021-03-18T18:01:40Z")
> [@Zayisha\_Andara](#): > > Well, that Test says at the zero Mark: 8 Klicks. > So lets see: > > - Going into place: 2 Clicks (or 3, depending) > - Ore Scan: 1 Click > - Getting Drones out: 1 Click (or 2, depending) > - Targeting 5 Rocks: 5 Clicks > - Setting Single Drone on Rock: 15 Clicks > > Total Clicks at Zero Mark: 24 to 26 Clicks. > (not including fights against Rats) So you might find if you repeat, a much higher number of clicks, but the comparison between the ships will be the same. I don’t need to click as much and only started from the point of beginning mining. But it doesn’t take 5 clicks to target multiple asteroids. I only takes 1 click and a drag, with a button press. That 1 click was counted as 1 click; and repeated the same way in both cases. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 6:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/393 "2021-03-18T18:02:31Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > So you might find if you repeat, a much higher number of clicks, but the comparison between the ships will be the same. I don’t need to click as much and only started from the point of beginning mining. But it doesn’t take 5 clicks to target multiple asteroids. I only takes 1 click and a drag, with a button press. That 1 click was counted as 1 click. This is the part where they run off deep into the weeds and scrutinize minutiae while missing the actual point. Brace yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Zayisha\_Andara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zayisha_andara/32/249831_2.png) [@Zayisha\_Andara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zayisha_Andara)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 6:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/394 "2021-03-18T18:03:54Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > That 1 click was counted as 1 click. Which makes it still more then 8. > [@Xuixien](#): > > This is the part where they run off deep into the weeds and scrutinize minutiae while missing the actual point. Brace yourself. Then keep it short: What do you think is not balanced? What do you think needs a change? ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 6:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/395 "2021-03-18T18:09:18Z")
> [@Zayisha\_Andara](#): > > Which makes it still more then 8. Try reading his entire post: > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > the comparison between the ships will be the same. ---
**Author:** ![Zayisha\_Andara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zayisha_andara/32/249831_2.png) [@Zayisha\_Andara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zayisha_Andara)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 6:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/396 "2021-03-18T18:09:44Z")
And again only dodging. Make a clear statement. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 6:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/397 "2021-03-18T18:10:02Z")
> [@Zayisha\_Andara](#): > > Make a clear statement. I just did: > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > the comparison between the ships will be the same. ---
**Author:** ![Zayisha\_Andara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zayisha_andara/32/249831_2.png) [@Zayisha\_Andara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zayisha_Andara)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 6:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/398 "2021-03-18T18:13:17Z")
That isn’t a “clear statement”. That’s wibbly wobbly dodging. A clear stement would be (example): The Blanket is blue, not green. Because: - RGB Code - Ligntning - other facts You just throw in a claim. Even after pointing out serious mistakes in the quoted test. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 6:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/399 "2021-03-18T18:16:37Z")
> [@Zayisha\_Andara](#): > > That isn’t a “clear statement”. > That’s wibbly wobbly dodging. You’re just mad because you thought you had a “gotcha!” response, and it didn’t pan out. Scipio’s test was a _comparison_ between the Orca and the Skiff - you **do** realize this, yes? If you want to nitpick his methodology for counting clicks with the Orca, you must also apply the same nitpicking to his methodology for counting clicks with the Skiff. Ergo: > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > the comparison between the ships will be the same. It’s not hard. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 6:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/400 "2021-03-18T18:18:04Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Anyone can repeat it and while as per my post above, a single test might have no value, I’m confident that other people would on average, find pretty much the same outcome (and multiple tests would have a lot of value), because the test was as close as I could get to being a fair comparison. No it was not fair. The exhumers are supposed to be used with an orca boosting and allowing to transmit resource to a freighter. You are making a specific case that is not a representation of the general case. So you can reproduce the test, it will still be cherry picking. More precisely, your conclusions are cherry picking and as such invalid. Your test is fine, just your conclusions are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Zayisha\_Andara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zayisha_andara/32/249831_2.png) [@Zayisha\_Andara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zayisha_Andara)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 6:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/401 "2021-03-18T18:19:12Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > Scipio’s test was a _comparison_ between the Orca and the Skiff A faulty, “dirty” one. AKA looks good on paper; looks different when it hit’s reality. And you are still missing an explaination what you are trying to prove. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 6:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/402 "2021-03-18T18:22:41Z")
> [@Zayisha\_Andara](#): > > A faulty, “dirty” one. AKA looks good on paper; looks different when it hit’s reality. _lmao_ dude, what? This was not “on paper”, this was out in the field. What the hell are you going on about at this point? You just don’t like the test because of the conclusions that were reached based on the data. And that’s fine; you have the right to not like it. However, your best bet is to actually refute it instead of trying to find a made up “loophole” to dismiss it or make vague allegations that it was “dirty” to cast doubt on the results. Tsk tsk. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 6:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/403 "2021-03-18T18:26:53Z")
> [@Zayisha\_Andara](#): > > A faulty, “dirty” one. Sure I guess. Go repeat it and post the results back. The raw number of clicks will be different, but the comparison will still be the same. While I went and tested because it’s been a while since I mined in anything at all, I never previously experienced a situation where the Orca required my attention more than a barge or exhumer. That was why I went and tested, because it just didn’t match my own experience. Based on what I can currently see, those earlier statements still don’t match my experience. They are opposite. The orca isn’t anywhere near as AFKable as it used to be before scarcity, but it’s still totally possible to not even be sitting at the computer for good amounts of time and still be more effectively mining than the alternative of not being logged in at all (which is the case if I could only use a barge or exhumer and had to be doing other things, though your mileage may vary on that). ---
**Author:** ![Zayisha\_Andara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zayisha_andara/32/249831_2.png) [@Zayisha\_Andara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zayisha_Andara)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 6:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/404 "2021-03-18T18:27:49Z")
Same Question to you: What is the point you want to make? And how does that point counts into Orca changes? ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 6:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/405 "2021-03-18T18:29:56Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > The orca isn’t anywhere near as AFKable as it used to be before scarcity, You are wrong, it’s still exactly as much. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 6:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/406 "2021-03-18T18:30:27Z")
> [@Zayisha\_Andara](#): > > And how does that point counts into Orca changes? I don’t think any changes to the mining ability of the Orca are needed. I’ve stated that multiple times in the thread already. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 6:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/408 "2021-03-18T18:34:19Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > You are wrong, it’s still exactly as much. Nope. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Moon mining used to provide access to asteroids that allowed me to mine completely AFK in an Orca for well over an hour without even looking at my computer (I’d do it while going to the shops each day, while cooking dinnner, etc.). It was a totally AFKable activity prior to scarcity. That doesn’t appear to be the case anymore, so in that sense it isn’t as AFKable as before. ---
**Author:** ![Zayisha\_Andara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zayisha_andara/32/249831_2.png) [@Zayisha\_Andara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zayisha_Andara)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/409 "2021-03-18T18:35:00Z")
Some Test for you: ![2021.03.18.18.01.34_copy](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/9/6/7/96793c00a544d8b902e51420e1413a964a99a01c.jpeg) Standard HiSec Belt. Mining started at 1754h. Rocks mined out at: 1. 1804h 2. 1806h 3. 1810h 4. 1814h 5. 1815h Standard Belt = Rocks with different Sizes = creates desync. Rats = creating more desync. So much for “going AFK for 40 Minutes in a Standard Belt”. (and that’s just one Orca, not four) ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/410 "2021-03-18T18:35:41Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Moon mining used to provide access to asteroids that allowed me to mine completely AFK in an Orca for well over an hour without even looking at my computer and you can still do it. it’s literally as afkable than before. ---
**Author:** ![Zayisha\_Andara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zayisha_andara/32/249831_2.png) [@Zayisha\_Andara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zayisha_Andara)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 6:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/411 "2021-03-18T18:37:05Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > Zayisha doesn’t really like to read. Well, Scipio knows how to make a clear statement without dodging. slash hint [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741.md?page=15) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741.md?page=17)