# Incoming Changes to the Orca **URL:** \ **Category:** Mining & Extraction\ **Created:** [March 5, 2021, 2:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741 "2021-03-05T02:07:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/605 "2021-03-22T20:37:51Z")
> [@Vortigern\_Vitalis](#): > > Whether or not AFK gameplay is a problem, and CCP’s views on it, are irrelevant, because this thread is about the Orca. CCP’s view is just about the only relevant view and it’s our individual views that are irrelevant. We have no capacity to affect change (and very little capacity to stop change). CCP have that capacity, so their view on “low attention” gameplay and the desire to reduce it where they see it as an issue, is far more important than the hurf blurf we carry on with. ---
**Author:** ![Vortigern\_Vitalis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vortigern_vitalis/32/455600_2.png) [@Vortigern\_Vitalis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vortigern_Vitalis)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 8:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/606 "2021-03-22T20:38:55Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > CCP’s view is just about the only relevant view and it’s our individual views that are irrelevant. We have no capacity to affect change (and very little capacity to stop change). > > CCP have that capacity, so their view on “low attention” gameplay and the desire to reduce it is far more important than the hurf blurf we carry on with… Which is why these entire fora are a waste of time! ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/607 "2021-03-22T20:39:57Z")
> [@Vortigern\_Vitalis](#): > > So, when people with whom you do not agree demonstrate something It hasn’t been “demonstrated”. Repeating yourself won’t change that. > [@Vortigern\_Vitalis](#): > > but when you make an unsubstantiated assertion That’s hilarious considering the assertion has been substantiated by actual testing. > [@Vortigern\_Vitalis](#): > > And you dare to call me a **liar**? Yeah. Because you are. And you’re just repeating your lies. > [@Vortigern\_Vitalis](#): > > It is simply not worth engaging with you any more, so I will not. “_You called me out on my lies, so I’m taking my toys and going home._” mmkay. > [@Vortigern\_Vitalis](#): > > By the way, do have a little dance around the bedroom if you like, telling yourself that you have won an internet debate! I mean. You _did_ just concede, when it was … _demonstrated_ … to you that lying insistently wasn’t going to work on me. ---
**Author:** ![Penance\_Toralen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/penance_toralen/32/244089_2.png) [@Penance\_Toralen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Penance_Toralen)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 8:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/608 "2021-03-22T20:40:31Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > CCP doesn’t seem to agree. Do you have a link, an actual Dev Post where this is stated? Wait, this post itself has been running for a while and there are no CCP’er comments about the content. An open invitation for CCP to backup just about anything you have offered in this thread. I know that we have CCP Rattati talking about the Rorqual - so how does that morph into Orca must be nerfed? ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 8:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/609 "2021-03-22T20:42:49Z")
> [@Penance\_Toralen](#): > > Do you have a link, an actual Dev Post where this is stated? Sure, here’s [one](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/upcoming-changes-to-drone-aggression/281713): > [@Upcoming Changes to Drone Aggression](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/upcoming-changes-to-drone-aggression/281713/1): > > We are making this change to ensure that NPC killing activities move closer towards attentive player interactions and rely much less on low or no attention gameplay. CCP has made other statements about low or no attention (no attention = AFK, btw) in general. > [@Penance\_Toralen](#): > > I know that we have CCP Rattati talking about the Rorqual - so how does that morph into Orca must be nerfed? Because they are both Industrial Command Ships used for long-duration AFK mining. CCP wants to see them in active roles and boosting fleets. ---
**Author:** ![Lugues\_Slive](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugues_slive/32/454530_2.png) [@Lugues\_Slive](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugues_Slive)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 9:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/610 "2021-03-22T21:05:16Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > Sure, here’s [one](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/upcoming-changes-to-drone-aggression/281713): Not saying that it isn’t their stance, but that is probably not going to go over with this crowd as it specifically says “NPC killing activities” as opposed to general activities or mining activities. EDIT: It wont help that those changes were rolled back due to technical issues anyways 🙂 > [@Penance\_Toralen](#): > > Do you have a link, an actual Dev Post where this is stated? My second post, way at the top, has a link to an interview with Rattati and the approximate time stamp where he does specifically call out the Orca along with the Rorqual. Its why I created this thread in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 10:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/611 "2021-03-22T22:21:00Z")
> [@Upcoming Changes to Drone Aggression](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/upcoming-changes-to-drone-aggression/281713/1): > > to ensure that NPC killing activities move closer towards attentive player interactions and rely much less on low or no attention gameplay. So then this is what people claim is fact that orca is bad. hmmmkay. That is what is usually referred to as “spin and stretch”. > [@Xuixien](#): > > (no attention = AFK, btw) no. despite your repeated trying to stretch the term, AFK still stands for “away from keyboard”, not “not paying attention”. > [@Xuixien](#): > > Because they are both Industrial Command Ships used for long-duration AFK mining. That’s just, like, your personal interpretation. Since you don’t even know what AFK means, then it’s just a soup of words which you actually don’t understand. > [@Xuixien](#): > > No, this has not been “demonstrated”. This has been _claimed_ - repeatedly, yes - but not “_demonstrated_”. Yes, it’s been : what is asserted without a proof, is dismissed without a proof. By showing all your claims on the topic only come from your ignorance on the topic, we (actually, you did it yourself) proved that your claims are wrong. > [@Lugues\_Slive](#): > > My second post, way at the top, has a link to an interview with Rattati and the approximate time stamp where he does specifically call out the Orca along with the Rorqual. Its why I created this thread in the first place. > [@Incoming Changes to the Orca](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/3): > > Rattati has hinted in at least two of his interviews. The latest being the one posted on the forums, [CCP Rattati on a stream talking about economy](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-rattati-on-a-stream-talking-about-economy/298278), at around 00:38:00 it is mentioned with the Rorqual. ? (you can click the anchor to get the link) ---
**Author:** ![safira\_jomita](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/safira_jomita/32/405219_2.png) [@safira\_jomita](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/safira_jomita)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 10:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/612 "2021-03-22T22:23:42Z")
@Xuixien just fit a bumper ship bump them to hell and steal their drones. let it go. ---
**Author:** ![Vortigern\_Vitalis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vortigern_vitalis/32/455600_2.png) [@Vortigern\_Vitalis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vortigern_Vitalis)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 10:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/613 "2021-03-22T22:29:29Z")
> [@safira\_jomita](#): > > @Xuixien just fit a bumper ship bump them to hell and steal their drones. let it go. Another very good reason why people do not AFK with Orcas very often, unless they want to keep replacing drones. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 10:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/614 "2021-03-22T22:43:38Z")
> [@Lugues\_Slive](#): > > Not saying that it isn’t their stance, but that is probably not going to go over with this crowd as it specifically says “NPC killing activities” as opposed to general activities or mining activities. I’m sure people will nitpick. But I had cited the carrier/ratting changes as supporting evidence for CCP wanting to move away from low/no-attention gameplay. > [@Vortigern\_Vitalis](#): > > Another very good reason why people do not AFK with Orcas very often, unless they want to keep replacing drones. Yeah no, nice try. This is gonna go in the “not really” bin. Unless you’re using ‘Harvester’ drones, then you will _definitely_ get bumped in an attempt to steal your drones (or someone like me will show up in a Catalyst with ungrouped guns and delete 2.5bil from your life). If you use ‘Augmented’ drones, _maybe_. But for T2 drones that most people use? Yeah no, this isn’t going to happen. Spin that narrative tho, Mr. Politician! ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 10:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/615 "2021-03-22T22:56:30Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > But I had cited the carrier/ratting changes as supporting evidence for CCP wanting to move away from low/no-attention gameplay. Ok? And? You keep citing this, but keep wanting to wreck the Orca and make it even more no attention gameplay rather than supporting the ideas which decrease the ability to pay low attention to the Orca. Your argument is quite simply inconsistent and keeps shifting what it is talking about and what problem you are attempting to address. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 11:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/616 "2021-03-22T23:22:04Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Ok? > And? > You keep citing this, but keep wanting to wreck the Orca and make it even more no attention gameplay rather than supporting the ideas which decrease the ability to pay low attention to the Orca. > Your argument is quite simply inconsistent and keeps shifting what it is talking about and what problem you are attempting to address. My position has been clear and consistent this entire thread: I’d rather the Orca be an AFK booster ship that people park an alt in than an AFK money maker. Sorry you can’t read. _Thanks_. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 11:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/617 "2021-03-22T23:30:24Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > I’d rather the Orca be an AFK booster ship that people park an alt in than an AFK money maker. Sorry you can’t read. _Thanks_. The Orca is not an AFK money maker. But removing its drones would make it an AFK ships for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 11:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/618 "2021-03-22T23:40:23Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > I’d rather the Orca be an AFK booster ship that people park an alt in > [@Xuixien](#): > > supporting evidence for CCP wanting to move away from low/no-attention gameplay. This is the inconsistent part. If you are citing CCP wanting to move away from low attention gameplay, you can’t use that as support for an idea that makes a particular ship even more low attention than it currently is. > [@Xuixien](#): > > AFK money maker And this is the unproven part. Yes, people sometimes (at an unknown level) AFK Orcas. However it is inefficient, can only be done in highsec, and happens at lower income rates than barges. So unless you count “You earned 1 isk” as ‘Money Maker’ it is unproven that AFK Orcas have any significant impact on the economy of EVE or peoples earnings. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 11:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/619 "2021-03-22T23:58:42Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > This is the inconsistent part. Not at all, you’re just twisting things dishonestly. If it’s a boosting ship used on an alt, that very strongly implies (and might even necessitate) active engagement with the mining barge clients. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > And this is the unproven part. Except it’s not, it was tested and proven in the thread. Stop being dishonest. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > happens at lower income rates than barges. Solo AFK Orca was shown to make about the same as a solo Skiff (exhumer class). Also, the income argument is a red herring, as I’ve already explained earlier. Stop being dishonest. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > So unless you count “You earned 1 isk” as ‘Money Maker’ This is hyperbole because you know your argument is weak and depends on lies and exaggeration. You can’t argue in good faith and just keep repeating lies, so back in 24 hour time-out you go. _Thanks_. ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_dorrim_barstorlode/32/361083_2.png) [@ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2021, 12:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/620 "2021-03-23T00:04:40Z")
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**Author:** ![ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_dorrim_barstorlode/32/361083_2.png) [@ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2021, 12:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741/621 "2021-03-23T00:05:11Z")
As the rules aren’t being followed and the conversation is going nowhere, I’m closing this thread. Thank you. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/incoming-changes-to-the-orca/298741.md?page=25)