# Increase CONCORD Response Time at non-Gate/non-Station locations **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [December 29, 2019, 6:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/increase-concord-response-time-at-non-gate-non-station-locations/208975 "2019-12-29T18:25:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 11:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/increase-concord-response-time-at-non-gate-non-station-locations/208975/41 "2020-01-01T23:25:26Z")
Thing is, increasing the risk is one method. Another would be to have the incoming ore go to the regular hold, not the ore hold, forcing the pilot to move it manually. This would really only penalize AFKers. One of the base problems is Orca is filling two roles, miner and hauler. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 11:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/increase-concord-response-time-at-non-gate-non-station-locations/208975/42 "2020-01-01T23:30:29Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > Another would be to have the incoming ore go to the regular hold, not the ore hold, forcing the pilot to move it manually. > > This would really only penalize AFKers No, it would penalise everyone forcing them to add clicks just to satisfy you. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > 6 hours whilst the player is at work? As for mining at work, show it’s actually a common problem. Pointing at orcas existing doesn’t prove this problem even exists. And there are already significant solutions in game to this in the way of FOB & Emerging conduits. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 11:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/increase-concord-response-time-at-non-gate-non-station-locations/208975/43 "2020-01-01T23:35:16Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > As for mining at work, show it’s actually a common problem. Mining afk isn’t a bad thing?.. Ok bot. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > And there are already significant solutions in game to this in the way of FOB & Emerging conduits. The amount of orcas out there suggests to me they aren’t enough of a deterrent. I’ve never been worried about them. I’ve never seen the rats that are meant to spawn from an out post and the trigs are quite weak in my experience. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 11:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/increase-concord-response-time-at-non-gate-non-station-locations/208975/44 "2020-01-01T23:36:09Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > No, it would penalise everyone forcing them to add clicks just to satisfy you. Because there really isn’t a problem, naïve, ignorant, or in denial? 🤣 Don’t even bother answering. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 12:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/increase-concord-response-time-at-non-gate-non-station-locations/208975/45 "2020-01-02T00:03:35Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > Because there really isn’t a problem Please, show some actual stats that there is a problem. And then show that the only possible way to solve this problem is to utterly ruin every single miners day with make work clicking and dragging just because you say so. This whole thread is just about ruining players days to satisfy a few people’s egos and beliefs. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Mining afk isn’t a bad thing?.. Ok bot. Way to deliberately misread a sentence. Train reading to 1 and go back and try again. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 1:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/increase-concord-response-time-at-non-gate-non-station-locations/208975/46 "2020-01-02T01:16:20Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Please, show some actual stats that there is a problem. The MER. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Way to deliberately misread a sentence. How? You’re either arguing that afk mining is a good thing and shouldn’t be discouraged or that afk mining isn’t bad enough to cause problems with the economy. The first is poor judgement. The second is denial. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 1:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/increase-concord-response-time-at-non-gate-non-station-locations/208975/47 "2020-01-02T01:27:29Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > You’re either arguing that afk mining is a good thing and shouldn’t be discouraged or that afk mining isn’t bad enough to cause problems with the economy. No. > **[False dilemma](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma)** > > A false dilemma, also referred to as false dichotomy or false binary, is an informal fallacy based on a premise that erroneously limits what options are available. The source of the fallacy lies not in an invalid form of inference but in a false premise. This premise has the form of a disjunctive claim: it asserts that one among a number of alternatives must be true. This disjunction is problematic because it oversimplifies the choice by excluding viable alternatives, presenting the viewer with o... ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 1:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/increase-concord-response-time-at-non-gate-non-station-locations/208975/48 "2020-01-02T01:57:27Z")
If I’m wrong he can make his position explicitly clear. Something you had trouble with last time… But he did say this: > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > As for mining at work, show it’s actually a common problem. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 2:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/increase-concord-response-time-at-non-gate-non-station-locations/208975/49 "2020-01-02T02:07:42Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > The MER Is primarily null sec rorqual ore, as shown by the mining breakdown. Has no information on what ship is used in highsec to get the highsec ore. So your ‘source’ is useless for the claim you are making. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 2:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/increase-concord-response-time-at-non-gate-non-station-locations/208975/50 "2020-01-02T02:24:32Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Is primarily null sec rorqual ore Are you trying to say high-sec mining is insignificant? Combine all null sec and compare it to all high sec. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Has no information on what ship is used in highsec to get the highsec ore. That’s why i showed you a screen shot of Jufvitte d-scan. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 2:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/increase-concord-response-time-at-non-gate-non-station-locations/208975/51 "2020-01-02T02:45:15Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Combine all null sec and compare it to all high sec Null Sec got in front of high sec mining 2 or 3 years ago and has been trending further and further ahead since. The MER breakdown includes low sec since its per region so can’t be done entirely accurately. But please do go ahead and post the maths you’ve clearly already done since it’s your own source and claim > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > That’s why i showed you a screen shot of Jufvitte d-scan. Which by your own maths had Covetors mining more ore than Orcas. And there is no evidence in that screenshot or the MER to suggest that Orca mining while people are at work is common enough to justify any kind of wrecking of the game for everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 2:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/increase-concord-response-time-at-non-gate-non-station-locations/208975/52 "2020-01-02T02:56:11Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Null Sec got in front of high sec mining 2 or 3 years ago and has been trending further and further ahead since. So much that i can’t look at the MER and say ‘mining and production vs destruction is out of whack and hi-sec mining has something to do with that!’ You’re saying hi-sec mining is so insignificant the above statement is wrong? > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Which by your own maths had Covetors mining more ore than Orcas. On the contrary. It showed orcas were not only the most popular way to mine, but the most popular ship of all. Remember, those covetors are only mining for a couple hours and the orcas for 8 hours. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > And there is no evidence in that screenshot or the MER to suggest that Orca mining while people are at work is common enough to justify any kind of wrecking of the game for everyone else. So you established that orcas have bad yield. We’ve established there are 4 orcas for every 5 barges so it’s unlikely they are all boosting… And we already know the mack is more popular than skiffs despite their tank… So you think people mine in orcas because?.. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 3:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/increase-concord-response-time-at-non-gate-non-station-locations/208975/53 "2020-01-02T03:18:52Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Remember, those covetors are only mining for a couple hours and the orcas for 8 hours Prove it. You coming up with a story doesn’t make this a fact. And even if it is true, it doesn’t justify any of the proposals put forward here all of which harm other players more than your alleged target group. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 3:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/increase-concord-response-time-at-non-gate-non-station-locations/208975/54 "2020-01-02T03:22:35Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Prove it. That’ll take time…like 8 hours. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > all of which harm other players more than your alleged target group. A nerf to orca yield is objectively more damaging to afk orca players than it is to people who use orcas in fleets as support ships. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 3:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/increase-concord-response-time-at-non-gate-non-station-locations/208975/55 "2020-01-02T03:32:26Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > A nerf to orca yield is objectively more damaging to afk orca players than it is to people who use orcas in fleets as support ships. But you claimed the fact that to ask you have to mine in a horribly inefficient low yield method doesn’t matter because it’s afk. You can’t even make your mind up about your own argument. If a yield nerf will hurt them… there is no need for a nerf because it’s already the lowest yield, and it harms everyone else more because a 10% nerf on a larger number is a larger nerf. If it won’t hurt them there is no point and it harms everyone else. So… Even by your own arguments, it harms everyone else more. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 4:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/increase-concord-response-time-at-non-gate-non-station-locations/208975/56 "2020-01-02T04:06:17Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > You can’t even make your mind up about your own argument. If a yield nerf will hurt them… there is no need for a nerf because it’s already the lowest yield Except we already know from the previous iteration of the orca that once yield goes below a certain threshold afk mining in orcas becomes undesirable enough that few people do it. Same with using a miasmos with one mining laser. Again, look at my d-scan. Only one miasmos, and i bet it wasn’t mining. So whilst people are happy to mine sub-optimally when afk (see popularity of mack and rettie), there is a point where a yield is low enough it becomes widely undesirable (see old orca and mining miasmos). So I’m fully aware of my arguments. Question is, are you? > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > So… Even by your own arguments, it harms everyone else more. How? Objectively afk orcas rely on yield more than orcas being used as support. Do you wonder why anyone used the orca before it got a mining drone buff? ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 11:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/increase-concord-response-time-at-non-gate-non-station-locations/208975/57 "2020-01-02T11:22:00Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > That’ll take time…like 8 hours. Then your claim, that THOSE specifically ships remain for 8 H, is BS. Even if, it would be irrelevant to their impact on the game (just because they are present 8H does not mean they are mining 8H) ; and what’s more irrelevant to the ratio of mining done by orcas. And even then, it would be irrelevant to the general case. If you don’t have real data you can’t say anything. Your approximation is made up on the spot, and poorly at that. But I agree that the orcas are in a better shape, if you don’t want to mine efficiency. And already agreed that it’s because of their increase tank. Therefore, the only correct answer, is to give 10k HP to the shield of barges, and 20k to the shield of exhumers, so that they are less worthless to use. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Objectively afk orcas rely on yield more than orcas being used as support. No they don’t. If you are AFK, you mine at most 5 rocks and that’s it. and over 8 hours you actually mined 5 rocks. Your sentence is just complete BS. You make up stupid arguments to go along a stupid idea, jut because its output matches your desire. That’s hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 3:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/increase-concord-response-time-at-non-gate-non-station-locations/208975/58 "2020-01-02T15:34:21Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > If you don’t have real data you can’t say anything. Do you think it’s false data? Present your own perhaps? It’s the best way to refute my arguments. The more the merrier. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > No they don’t. If you are AFK, you mine at most 5 rocks and that’s it. and over 8 hours you actually mined 5 rocks. > > Your sentence is just complete BS. You make up stupid arguments to go along a stupid idea, jut because its output matches your desire. That’s hypocrisy. So you think a single mining drone can finish a moon rock within 8 hours? 200m3 a minute = 12k m3 an hour = 96k m3 in 8 hours. That’s with **zero** travel time. Moon rocks are over 200k m3… So yeah orcas can mine until they fill their hold by mining 5 separate rocks. The math above demonstrates it doesn’t even need to be the biggest rocks you can get in a moon belt. My statements isn’t wrong in the slightest. A yield nerf objectively punishes an orca designed to do nothing but mine afk compared to orcas used for boosting/fleet support. We DO know that there is a yield threshold where they will be widely regarded as inappropriate for afk mining but are still used for support. ---
**Author:** ![Jerry\_Falcone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jerry_falcone/32/167073_2.png) [@Jerry\_Falcone](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jerry_Falcone)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 3:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/increase-concord-response-time-at-non-gate-non-station-locations/208975/59 "2020-01-02T15:47:39Z")
since all this is revolved around the orca, and since alpha pilots can’t fly orcas, why not just shuffle the orcas out of hisec and into low or null only… ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 3:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/increase-concord-response-time-at-non-gate-non-station-locations/208975/60 "2020-01-02T15:52:01Z")
Is very heavy handed considering we had perfectly fine orcas in hi-sec a few years ago. Null and low have rorquals. (yeah they’re broken too, but that’s a rorqual problem not an orca problem) [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/increase-concord-response-time-at-non-gate-non-station-locations/208975.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/increase-concord-response-time-at-non-gate-non-station-locations/208975.md?page=4)