Interviews with CCP Delegate Zero

(Elsebeth Rhiannon) #1

I noticed these were not posted yet so here goes:

Parts one and two of an interview with @CCP_Delegate_Zero , the lore dev at the moment.

(I have nothing to do with these personally, just passing the message, so direct any questions to DZ or @Arrendis .)

(Tressith Sefira) #2

what is the Gallente storyline even about?

Well, that’s not encouraging.

(CCP Delegate Zero) #3

Well I’m not discouraged by it exactly, but I can’t really shy away from the fact that I’ve encountered that sentiment a fair bit. The flip side is that recognizing this is something that people question means we can address it.

(Gosakumori Noh) #4

As I recall the positioning some time ago was that the Gallente Federation most closely resembled “reality,” and therefore served as the foundation (perhaps Foundation) from which the other factions could diverge. That is a reasonable strategy, but it does create a “Worf problem” for the Gallente. All the other factions demonstrate how interesting they are by doing new and exciting things that Just Don’t Happen in the Real World (and therefore in the Federation).

Dynastic drama: Amarr. Sinister megacorporations: State. Anarchists running naked and free: Republic. Holo stars being catapulted into political power: I wouldn’t recommend it.

The Federation is an excellent fit for Golden Era science fiction “we put the exploration in space exploration.” It would be nice if the real world got back into that groove. There is plenty of room for the Federation to explore “up” or “down” without running into null sec plot complications.

(Elsebeth Rhiannon) #5

Uh… a tribal society where clan/tribe leader’s word is pretty much law, but where there is a “lower house” parliament.

Funny anarchists, if you ask me.

Does not take away from your point tho. Gallente are hard because they are an exaggeration of certain things that go in our current societies.

(Tressith Sefira) #6

That’s only true on a very superficial level and falls apart quickly with reading. The Federation is not a real life stand in and treating it like one hurts both pre-established lore and handicaps lore going forward. But I’m repeating myself. (There’s not an example of a holostar being elected to public office. Not sure where you’re getting that from.)

More importantly, why would a person label the Republic/Minmatar anarchists? Where does that come from?

(Elsebeth Rhiannon) #7

No, it is not, but it is kind of… a scifi land that follows from certain pathways that are easier to (a lot of Western) people to identify with than say tribal societies or theocracies. That is both a strength (easy to identify with, easy to work with) and a weakness (easily falls flat if analogies to rl are taken too far).

(Lord Kalus) #8

Anytime I need some of that tribal flavor…

(Tressith Sefira) #9

I get what you’re saying. You’re presenting a wider perspective very reasonably, and to a certain extent, structurally, you make solid points- but it disregards the Intaki, Mannar, and Jin-Mei, who don’t follow European convention, and their critical positions in the story of the Federation! I don’t think a person can really even use “Western” as a synonym for European here, because that would cause confusion with regards to the Mannar being Mesoamerican inspired. Anytime someone takes the perspective that the Federation follows Western tropes, the Intaki, Mannar, and Jin-Mei are forgotten, and there’s really nothing of interest in Federation lore without them.

(To say nothing of the Minmatar population besides.)

(Gosakumori Noh) #10

Whether or not it “should” be, the Federation is a caricature of Western Liberal Democracy and the abuses which can be justified in the name of Freedom™. The fact that the societies contained within the Federation are treated as window dressing is consistent with that caricature.

As for anarchists, whatever.

As for where the holo star catapulted into political power came from, OH COME ON.

(Tressith Sefira) #11


(Elsebeth Rhiannon) #12

Yes, and none of the other empires follow their “stereotype” completely or only. There’s variations and nuances and exceptions in EVE lore everywhere.

(MantelGlobalIndustries) #13

I think the both of you make good points in debating the merits and drawbacks about the Federation.

In regards to the Federation and it’s own story, it has had a unique and interesting storyline throughout it’s history that was written up and given to us as a means of giving more depth and nuance to the Federation, in the same vein as the history of the Empire, which can both be found on the Fiction Portal or on Backstage Lore Wiki. The Fed can have many stories involved within the world, befitting its unique position in the world of eve, but it would be unfair to ask just one person to provide focus on all four empires with the same precision and depth. Perhaps that is a case that can be made to acquire more staff to help with lore development and live events etc.

Whilst the Fed does have that democracy angle which is familiar to us living in ‘western society’, I do not feel that the Federation in the current form is a clear or carbon copy of our current societies at all, especially as Triss pointed out that the inclusion of the Mannar, Jin-Mei, Intaki and other member races that have widely different cultural values and identities which are not western-inspired, as well as the fact that no single identity in the Fed holds an absolute majority over the others, again a rarity in IRL.

Equally, Else raises a good point that the Fed can bottom out if IRL analogies are taken too far in respect to the Fed as from a glimpse it could be seen to be too familiar with IRL society, especially as many players that actively roleplay (yes I know ‘everyone’ roleplays) reside in states that are democratic in nature. Maybe this is something else that could be worked on to separate the Federation from IRL analogies which aren’t necessarily correct or fair.

(Aradina Varren) #14

I think that IRL analogies are unavoidable. Even if they’re not intended, they’re going to be made, for better or worse. The obvious issue is that the meaning of them depends on personal opinions but that’s a whole other issue. If I call something “Space Tazmania”, most people will have a completely different interpretation of what that might mean, etc. They’re not an entirely bad thing though, they can in some cases make things easier to understand for people who are new to things, and their understanding can be expanded later on once they have a decent grasp of the basics.

The way that lore is typically structured tends to separate things. The Jin-Mei, Intaki, and other member races might as well not be in the Federation as far as things are typically presented, or at least they’re not the main members of it. For a lot of people, “The Federation” refers to the Ethnic Gallente and close to no one else, and the surface lore typically supports this interpretation. Naming it The Gallente Federation was probably poor planning in that regard.

(Tanagura Amoii) #15

It would have been natural, given Caldari State, Amarr Empire, and Matari Republic. Calling it simply “The Federation” would have raised issues in the beginning, “United Something” would raise different issues, “United Federation” would multiply those issues. But with the benefit of hindsight, not using a particular culture in the name would have been an opportunity to showcase something unique about what can now probably just be called The Federation.

(Tressith Sefira) #16

I think, hmm, I think what people understand when they’re interested in an EVE ethnicity but overlook when they’re not is that having lore about an individual member of an ethnicity is not the same as having lore about an entire ethnicity. Intaki roleplayers seem to understand that while some conclusions can be drawn from President Foiritan about broader Intaki lore, lore about Foiritan himself is not immediately Intaki lore. So when the elections happen, and the Federation has a bunch of detailed lore crop up about a bunch of interesting candidates with policy discussions, that can look like it’s catering to a wide selection (we’ve had Mannar, Minmatar, Jin-Mei, and Caldari candidates, all with several articles each dedicated to them and their stances) it feels shallow to the people who immerse themselves in those subdivisions.

That’s not a problem, say, the Caldari have, where I think sometimes people forget the Deteis and the Civire distinction. Of course, the lore also suggests that’s more of an outlook thing, too. But then you get into the fact only three of the Big 8 actually have personalities, when the Big 8 are supposed to stand in for that.

There is a lot of good ethnic Gallente lore on the fiction portal, and definitely more than other Federation identities. For some reason, it’s not very integrated in game or in news articles? But that’s a separate issue, and that issue plagues every faction, I think.