# Introduce a new class of Subscription- Beta players, cheaper than Omega, better than Alpha **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Tags:** alpha, omega\ **Created:** [December 17, 2023, 11:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introduce-a-new-class-of-subscription-beta-players-cheaper-than-omega-better-than-alpha/432838 "2023-12-17T11:34:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 4:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introduce-a-new-class-of-subscription-beta-players-cheaper-than-omega-better-than-alpha/432838/22 "2023-12-19T16:13:55Z")
**Betas** should be a cheaper (paid) option - but that also means **Alphas** need to be hit with the nerf bat. Still no T2 ships for Betas, though. ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2023, 6:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introduce-a-new-class-of-subscription-beta-players-cheaper-than-omega-better-than-alpha/432838/23 "2023-12-20T06:49:10Z")
> [@Rtsu](#): > > they decided to introduce micro-transactions on top of the monthly subscription Even if CCP were to return to an entirely sub based model, they should keep paid cosmetics. Why? Because they don’t affect the gameplay experience at all, and it gives CCP more money to develop the game further. Personally, I think they give away way too many skins for free. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2023, 7:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introduce-a-new-class-of-subscription-beta-players-cheaper-than-omega-better-than-alpha/432838/24 "2023-12-22T07:03:20Z")
> [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > and people who are friendly to subscription based models seem to be disappearing, based on what I’ve seen over the past 10-20 years. You’re right. Newer generations of players have been bombarded since they could handle a piece of computing gear with “free to play” and impulse spending, and are far less critical about such “modern” monetization models than they should be for their own good (and benefit). That does not mean subscription models are bad, nor that they should be replaced by a model that costs more or one that makes the playing field unequal. I am not in favor of a “beta” model that un-evens the playing field for subscription paying customers. It has no place in a game that heavily relies on long term customer loyalty, and would just be a new source for future complaints about the game being un-even for alphas, betas and omegas. ---
**Author:** ![Calamity\_Unleashed](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/calamity_unleashed/32/413414_2.png) [@Calamity\_Unleashed](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Calamity_Unleashed)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2023, 7:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introduce-a-new-class-of-subscription-beta-players-cheaper-than-omega-better-than-alpha/432838/25 "2023-12-22T07:12:34Z")
> [@Ermon\_Kaiser](#): > > Beta players, not alpha, not omega Why not go down the whole Greek alphabet while we’re at it? I think Gama has a nice ring to it. ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2023, 8:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introduce-a-new-class-of-subscription-beta-players-cheaper-than-omega-better-than-alpha/432838/26 "2023-12-22T08:18:10Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > That does not mean subscription models are bad, nor that they should be replaced by a model that costs more It’s not really about whether or not it’s bad… just that CCP may be forced, eventually, to get rid of their sub entirely to stay operational. > [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > or one that makes the playing field unequal. The game play is already unequal. > [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > I am not in favor of a “beta” model that un-evens the playing field for subscription paying customers. I don’t see much difference between the current model and an in-between price point. The only issue I see, is the potential upward pressure it would cause on omega pricing. The next time cap proliferation becomes a problem, instead of scarcity, the sub price for running caps would go up instead. ---
**Author:** ![Vuhdo\_Rin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vuhdo_rin/32/378868_2.png) [@Vuhdo\_Rin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vuhdo_Rin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2023, 8:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introduce-a-new-class-of-subscription-beta-players-cheaper-than-omega-better-than-alpha/432838/27 "2023-12-22T08:22:27Z")
> [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > It’s not really about whether or not it’s bad… just that CCP may be forced, eventually, to get rid of their sub entirely to stay operational. and how they get their money ? only from skins ? doesnt make sense … they loose a lot of money if they get rid of their sub modell ! > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > I don’t see much difference between the current model and an in-between price point. if there is no difference why do we need this ? oO doesnt make sense ---
**Author:** ![Rtsu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rtsu/32/382977_2.png) [@Rtsu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rtsu)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2023, 9:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introduce-a-new-class-of-subscription-beta-players-cheaper-than-omega-better-than-alpha/432838/28 "2023-12-22T09:58:55Z")
Having a subscription model as well as micro transactions will drive away the group of people who don’t like subscription models and the group of people who don’t like micro transactions. What do you gain from that? ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2023, 11:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introduce-a-new-class-of-subscription-beta-players-cheaper-than-omega-better-than-alpha/432838/29 "2023-12-22T11:22:24Z")
> [@Rtsu](#): > > will drive away the group of people who don’t like subscription models True, but CCP has decided they don’t want to go full f2p, so you’ll just have to deal with it if you wish to play the game. EVE also isn’t really the type of game that has mass appeal due to how menu intensive the client is and the fact that you have to play zoomed out to play optimally. So likely, they will make more money from subs than pure f2p. > [@Rtsu](#): > > and the group of people who don’t like micro transactions. People who don’t like micro transactions put up with them as long as they don’t directly sell power. So it’s basically a non issue. Also, PLEX was initially introduced to combat rmt. It puts downward pressure on how much botters can sell their isk for, and as long as you have an open market system like EVE has, you’re going to have a risk of rmt. From that point, it was a natural evolution to modify the way plex worked to also apply to to their cosmetic store. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2023, 1:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introduce-a-new-class-of-subscription-beta-players-cheaper-than-omega-better-than-alpha/432838/30 "2023-12-22T13:38:34Z")
> [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > just that CCP may be forced, eventually, to get rid of their sub entirely to stay operational. Based on the (unsubstantiated) claim that microtransactions would be sufficient to stay afloat ? Might as well just scuttle the ship. CCP is more insightful than what some seem to give them credit for. > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > The game play is already unequal Not outside of the alpha / omega dichotomy (and what skills individual players bring to the table, but that is true even for whack-a-mole). The ingame trade of PLEX makes sure of that, in its own special way. Since the core of the gameplay, the real basis for any player, is SP, a beta status would inevitably have to involve the SP pool available, skill levels and access to ingame goods and activities. That is a new level of inequality (I do consider alpha to be a demo, not a new way of doing things in a bad albeit contemporary fashion) between players. Demo or not demo, I’d like to keep it in that very clear way. > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > I don’t see much difference between the current model and an in-between price point. If this forum is any indication, it wouldn’t take long to make the new difference quite visible. ---
**Author:** ![plazid](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/plazid/32/402496_2.png) [@plazid](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/plazid)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2023, 1:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introduce-a-new-class-of-subscription-beta-players-cheaper-than-omega-better-than-alpha/432838/31 "2023-12-22T13:46:30Z")
Maintaining games is not expensive. Its the corporate bureaucracies that evolve around them that gets expensive. How many times have you learned that cool games are made by a single person? Yet CCP has almost 200 people working for them and the game gets nowhere. Case in point this thread where an official responded and was like “this is good feedback we have a whole team working on it” but there has been no update for over a month even tho several simple and effective suggestions have been made. > [@Pirate & Empire Faction Tags](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pirate-empire-faction-tags/428023/7): > > This is very good feedback - me and my team completely agree and have been discussing ways to improve this visibility. We’re still in the process of making follow-up improvements and this is part of the discussions - hopefully more to share soon! ---
**Author:** ![plazid](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/plazid/32/402496_2.png) [@plazid](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/plazid)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2023, 1:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introduce-a-new-class-of-subscription-beta-players-cheaper-than-omega-better-than-alpha/432838/32 "2023-12-22T13:54:01Z")
CCP still has this picture on the frontpage of their website. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/6/9/9/6994b0e8c980eb89d945f243a4c3c9e5f52f04ea.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2023, 3:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introduce-a-new-class-of-subscription-beta-players-cheaper-than-omega-better-than-alpha/432838/33 "2023-12-22T15:06:29Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > Based on the (unsubstantiated) claim that microtransactions would be sufficient to stay afloat ? Might as well just scuttle the ship. CCP is more insightful than what some seem to give them credit for. Based on the idea that subs wouldn’t be enough to stay afloat in a future where not enough people are unwilling to pay for them. Businesses generally try everything they can to stay operational before they shutter the doors. I have my doubts that a full f2p model would be sufficient as well… but other games do manage it… and as you say, CCP is pretty insightful, so they might be able to make it work. > [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > > > The game play is already unequal > > Not outside of the alpha / omega dichotomy (and what skills individual players bring to the table, but that is true even for whack-a-mole). The ingame trade of PLEX makes sure of that, in its own special way. Beyond the alpha / omega discussion (which I wont even go into since we fundamentally disagree on the demo / f2p aspect of alpha - and it’s not overly pertinent to this discussion,) players can open their bank account and inject skills or just buy a fully trained character. There’s also the fact that the game is 20 years old, so a new player coming into the game is at a major sp deficit in that way. On top of that, if you have the hardware to run it, and willingness to fund multiple omega accounts, you can multibox those accounts, both in pve and pvp. Some of those things are issues you just have to accept, in dealing with a game like EVE or with the history EVE has, but it is a factor that comes into play, and it does keep people from joining. Whether or not these things are bad things isn’t the point of me bringing it up, merely that it is what I initially said, that “gameplay is already unequal.” Fortunately EVE segments various parts of the game, so if you go hard into specificity, you can catch up “quickly” in terms of relevant sp, but other issues still persist. > [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > > > I don’t see much difference between the current model and an in-between price point. > > If this forum is any indication, it wouldn’t take long to make the new difference quite visible. Is this a complaint about people being whiny again? At least with the beta sub, the ships people could actually fly wouldn’t be nerfed… it’s mainly just about removing caps and nerfing some industrial capacity. Op did also keep the alpha sp cap in place, which I don’t think it even necessary if CCP kept the double sp training que place for Omega. That said, I don’t think you’d see as many complaints about alpha if the ships they could fly weren’t hobbled. Just remove bs and bc, keep the industrial / money making restrictions in place, then let them fly t1 frigs - cruisers to their full capacity (plus the modules they need for those ships.) For example: why can’t alphas use a t2 ab? That’s a silly restriction. The lack of it isn’t going to push people toward omega clones. It’s just a pain point that will make people think, “this game sucks,” and uninstall it. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2023, 5:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introduce-a-new-class-of-subscription-beta-players-cheaper-than-omega-better-than-alpha/432838/34 "2023-12-22T17:59:17Z")
> [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > players can open their bank account and inject skills or just buy a fully trained character. There’s also the fact that the game is 20 years old, so a new player coming into the game is at a major sp deficit in that way. > > On top of that, if you have the hardware to run it, and willingness to fund multiple omega accounts, you can multibox those accounts, both in pve and pvp. > > Some of those things are issues you just have to accept, in dealing with a game like EVE or with the history EVE has, but it is a factor that comes into play, and it does keep people from joining. I’d categorize that under “temptations”. That’s coming from a player who 1) never injected sp; 2) only has one omega account; 3) started playing the game when it was already 8 years old, when titans and supers already were a thing; 4) has heard and read all the arguments about alleged SP deficits and disadvantages and thoroughly disagrees with these arguments, having survived or circumvented all of them; 5) did buy skins via purchase of plex. The only thing I do see that is different is the mindset… EvE is supposed to be tough to survive, let alone master it. That, and only that, is why it has always been a relatively small game in the landscape of MMOs. > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > For example: why can’t alphas use a t2 ab? That’s a silly restriction. The lack of it isn’t going to push people toward omega clones. It’s just a pain point that will make people think, “this game sucks,” and uninstall it. You, or anyone else, can go on repeating this ad infinitum, and still uphold the notion that alpha is not a demo version. Maybe no access to t2 AB’s is silly. But it’s also a consequence of a very clear choice to draw the line between alpha and omega, demo vs sub. Remember, alpha’s do not have to pay one single cent to play. If this game sucks for “reason of restrictions”, then CCP most definitely does not need your (lack of)) business. Pay for what you consume. Alphas already received a free take away lunch, now they want a table at the window too ?! > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > we fundamentally disagree on the demo / f2p aspect of alpha We agree on the fact that the demo is free to play. Perhaps you missed the fact that OP does not list a single reason for having a “beta” sub. ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2023, 6:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introduce-a-new-class-of-subscription-beta-players-cheaper-than-omega-better-than-alpha/432838/35 "2023-12-22T18:51:58Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > That’s coming from a player who 1) never injected sp; 2) only has one omega account; 3) started playing the game when it was already 8 years old, when titans and supers already were a thing; 4) has heard and read all the arguments about alleged SP deficits and disadvantages and thoroughly disagrees with these arguments, having survived or circumvented all of them; 5) did buy skins via purchase of plex. That’s great and all, but you’re not debunking the comment about inequality. If anything, you’re reinforcing it, and merely saying it doesn’t bother you. Which is fine, I don’t care either way, but that was never what this part of the discussion was about. > [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > You, or anyone else, can go on repeating this ad infinitum, and still uphold the notion that alpha is not a demo version. Maybe no access to t2 AB’s is silly. But it’s also a consequence of a very clear choice to draw the line between alpha and omega, demo vs sub. Remember, alpha’s do not have to pay one single cent to play. If this game sucks for “reason of restrictions”, then CCP most definitely does not need your (lack of)) business. Pay for what you consume. Alphas already received a free take away lunch, now they want a table at the window too ?! All of this is irrelevant. Why are you getting emotional? It’s quite reasonable to ask this question. It’s not about whether alphas should have more stuff for the sake of giving them more stuff. It’s about creating an environment that’s healthy for the game. And if anything, I suggested to take away more things than to give them. Being able to fully utilize up to t1 cruisers isn’t too big of an ask. And quite frankly, ccp would be better off keeping alphas locked in highsec (or at least empire space) than the current ship restrictions. Would be easy enough to implement too, just make what ever content CCP wants to restrict require safety red, or prevent alphas from going safety yellow and make that restricted content to require yellow safety. To combat p2w accusations, restricting content is a much better approach than restricting capability. > [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > > > we fundamentally disagree on the demo / f2p aspect of alpha > > We agree on the fact that the demo is free to play. We disagree, because I don’t see it as a demo. Demos can’t be upgraded to the full version without downloading a significant content patch. Demos don’t play on a live server with people who have the full product. Likewise it’s not a trial, because trials are limited to a certain time frame. It’s the full product, with an optional premium package. This is how CCP markets the game. And it’s also what happens when you actually engage with it as a new player. > [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > Perhaps you missed the fact that OP does not list a single reason for having a “beta” sub. Seems self evident to me. A lower sub level gives people who wouldn’t otherwise pay for a sub, a subscription level they’d be willing to engage with. The objective, is to give more money to CCP. Obviously that would have to be balanced, because it is possible for CCP to lose money instead of gain it. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2023, 7:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introduce-a-new-class-of-subscription-beta-players-cheaper-than-omega-better-than-alpha/432838/36 "2023-12-22T19:59:24Z")
> [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > And quite frankly, ccp would be better off keeping alphas locked in highsec (or at least empire space) than the current ship restrictions. ETC. No. The alphas are in the same flow of the game, and for all practical purposes limited in time (time = sp accumulation, alphas have a hard cap). > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > We disagree, because I don’t see it as a demo. Your wishful thinking and projection, not mine. > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > It’s the full product, with an optional premium package. This is how CCP markets the game. No. They advertise on their webpage “play for free now”, that does not mean it’s a f2p game. Anyone assuming it’s the “full product” hasn’t been paying attention to the SP hard cap. > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > The objective, is to give more money to CCP. Noble effort at embellishing , but untrue. The objective is to get deeper access while paying less than full access. It’s bargaining. Consequences for anyone else be damned, right ? You mentioned some of those yourself, like the pressure on full omega price, or on super piloting, w/e. ---
**Author:** ![0ptimus\_Swine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/0ptimus_swine/32/385816_2.png) [@0ptimus\_Swine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/0ptimus_Swine)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 3:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introduce-a-new-class-of-subscription-beta-players-cheaper-than-omega-better-than-alpha/432838/37 "2023-12-24T03:13:55Z")
I just feel super sad my 4 omega subs were destroyed by CCP over so little. So little that wasn’t even CCP’s fault. And yet, CCP decided I wasn’t a viable customer. Jokes on them. ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 3:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introduce-a-new-class-of-subscription-beta-players-cheaper-than-omega-better-than-alpha/432838/38 "2023-12-24T15:28:12Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > > > We disagree, because I don’t see it as a demo. > > Your wishful thinking and projection, not mine. That’s why I said I didn’t intend to engage on the topic, because it wouldn’t be productive. > [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > No. They advertise on their webpage “play for free now”, that does not mean it’s a f2p game. Anyone assuming it’s the “full product” hasn’t been paying attention to the SP hard cap. They literally advertise it has “free to play.” I’ve seen that several times in actual production trailers they’ve made. I don’t intend to go searching for it right now, but I’ll toss some other evidence your way that’s easier to find at the moment. From the steam store: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/f/e/3/fe3615eaede8ef2839c09df4e16230836f494425.png) ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/6/d/7/6d7562eb9c7a332c355774b4c0a98708e8210368.png) Notice in the genre section, it’s tagged as “free to play,” but no mention of subscription at all. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/5/b/5/5b5e173225d2f970e12fd6152132e6c9f337e8a1.png) This one is closer to what you said, but when paired with everything else I’ve shown you so far, it just makes it seem like a customary f2p game. This is taken from one of the trailers in the media section of the steam store. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/b/0/7/b07e0e8cecf488005256aaceb7930595042a47df.jpeg) The best you have in favor of what you’re saying is this: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/9/0/5/90544eb60c5c4e01568a597573e6678f94478862.png) But to be honest, there’s no context for what that means, and this is the only place on the steam page that even hints at a subscription for the game. Most gamers seeing this would likely just assume it’s like the season pass / limited subscription that doesn’t really impact gameplay that most other f2p games have. Even on their home page for the game’s website @ [eveonline.com](http://eveonline.com) there’s barely a mention of the sub, but right in the middle of the screen there’s a large “play free” button. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/4/3/a/43ab32ed3a2bddfb212caeef1014a3fa5650df03.png) contrast that with: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/7/d/9/7d9b246278c0ec4659506f9e1edbc1e68d81fbd6.png) Once again, no context for what “omega” is, and on top of that, that webpage element is not even a permanent part of the homepage, it’s an alert for a special they’re running. Furthermore, if you scroll down… there’s no mention of the subscription, but there is another big “play free” button. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/6/9/b/69bb388094afc6e3adcfee40215fe468673af25e.png) It’s not unless you specifically click the omega button from the above picture or “store” tab on the website that you finally get some clues as to what the sub even does for you. The omega button will take you to a page that will reference the ship, skill, and other lockouts, but the store page barely mentions the 2x training speed Beyond that, the only place where I saw information about what omega entailed… was clicking on one button in the steam page: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/e/5/1/e51b4f5df91b9d90bdc6de3488ef8a7285229629.png) That’s barely visible compared to everything else on the page, but if you do finally click the link, you’ll taken to a dlc content page, and shown this: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/7/7/9/77993ec961808918980017920df0530fc3d7c31b.png) It’s kind of shady, especially considering that buying omega through steam will only apply it to the account created through steam. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/e/8/3/e835de5d745e5f2c814d0f00c026cfb9672c182c.jpeg) ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/e/1/0/e10ebc0b0fe365eda341e076136cdf61a50741a2.jpeg) ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/3/6/c/36c5903e4d52a0fb6c70f4903a41c4020967eedd.png) So yeah, omega is listed as dlc, and you can’t find out anything about what it does for you unless you go to the dlc page in steam. And likewise, information about what omega is, is hidden behind clicks on their game website as well. And it’s not like I’m saying CCP shouldn’t be doing any of this, but don’t think you can gaslight me into believing CCP doesn’t market the game as free to play, because they obviously do. And if they’re marketing it as a free to play game, then it effectively is one. > [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > Noble effort at embellishing , but untrue. The objective is to get deeper access while paying less than full access. It’s bargaining. Consequences for anyone else be damned, right ? You mentioned some of those yourself, like the pressure on full omega price, or on super piloting, w/e. I can’t say I know what the op’s motivations are, but CCP’s motivation for accepting the proposal would be, as I said, to earn more money. I mentioned the potential pitfalls because I’m trying to have an honest discussion here. I do understand there are challenges that may be unsurmountable, but it can’t really be known if those can or can’t be overcome until there’s hard data to suggest either way. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 5:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introduce-a-new-class-of-subscription-beta-players-cheaper-than-omega-better-than-alpha/432838/39 "2023-12-24T17:30:39Z")
So you want to have a discussion on the real meaning of advertisements ? Not from me you will. You can have the final post, in the spirit of Christmas. Enjoy. Just look up the meaning of “manipulation” and of “there’s one born every minute”. > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > And if they’re marketing it as a free to play game, then it effectively is one. So that 20M SP hardcap is just there because … ? Ever had a Redbull ? Honestly, you believe all that stuff ?! Enjoy ! Merry Christmas. > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > I do understand there are challenges that may be unsurmountable, but it can’t really be known if those can or can’t be overcome until there’s hard data to suggest either way. Yeah, let’s break stuff to prove it could be broken. Good plan. ---
**Author:** ![Rail\_J\_kar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rail_j_kar/32/374429_2.png) [@Rail\_J\_kar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rail_J_kar)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 6:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introduce-a-new-class-of-subscription-beta-players-cheaper-than-omega-better-than-alpha/432838/40 "2023-12-24T18:39:13Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > So you want to have a discussion on the real meaning of advertisements ? > [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > Just look up the meaning of “manipulation” and of “there’s one born every minute”. > [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > Honestly, you believe all that stuff ?! Enjoy ! If they claim the product is something it isn’t, that’s a potential case for fraud. > [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > > > I do understand there are challenges that may be unsurmountable, but it can’t really be known if those can or can’t be overcome until there’s hard data to suggest either way. > > Yeah, let’s break stuff to prove it could be broken. Good plan. The direction things are going doesn’t scream “resounding success.” I’m not prophesying doom and gloom here, but it is true that EVE servers have roughly half the concurrent users from their peak about a decade ago. Recent expansions have been well received, but the overall userbase hasn’t seen continual growth in terms of server numbers. Even with Havoc peaking at 40k, it’s already settled back to pre-havoc numbers (server has 26k as I type this.) To bring this back around to the op and to keep this post from going way off topic, it seems quite clear that there are many people who find the current pricing to not be worth their money. As an example, a post from another thread about the [winter omega sales](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/where-are-the-omega-sales/433533): > [@Where are the Omega sales?](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/where-are-the-omega-sales/433533/1): > > I really don’t get the point of MCT when you can’t use more than 1 character at once. > > I was about to create a 3rd account and top-off omega on all 3, but the lackluster sale made me reconsider. > [@Where are the Omega sales?](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/where-are-the-omega-sales/433533/3): > > Don’t get me started… 🤭 > > > [@](#): > > > > I have taken the opportunity of renewing my subscriptions over the Christmas sales for the past few years, and yet this time there was no sale. The $99USD was for me an agreeable price (even though that’s a fair bit more in my CDN conversion). $131USD is more than my purse is comfortable paying. You no want my money? The laws of supply and demand are ever in motion, and even if they weren’t, it’s not such a simple thing as “charge more money = get more money.” When CCP bumped the sub from 15 a month to 20 a month, they lost roughly 5k concurrent users. I don’t know what that means in terms of actual subscribers, but considering that CCP also ran a slew of special sales during that time that put the price at or below the previous price, I imagine it was significant. It was only uprising that brought the server numbers back to pre-fanfest 2022 levels, but this graph doesn’t tell us how many of those numbers are actual subscribers. Considering the fact that both uprising and viridian were fairly alpha friendly content releases, it’s very possible subscriber numbers not only didn’t climb, but they very well could have dropped further. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/0/1/5/015eb884ade11c430e76fd44ddde80cbcbad3edd.png) The point is, is that CCP seems to be searching for a better way to do things, and separating caps into a higher payment tier could be one of those ways to move forward. I’m not really sure how CCP would test that. Maybe limited time beta clone sales? ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2023, 4:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introduce-a-new-class-of-subscription-beta-players-cheaper-than-omega-better-than-alpha/432838/41 "2023-12-25T04:23:21Z")
> [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > If they claim the product is something it isn’t, that’s a potential case for fraud. Try establishing a fraud claim in court for an advertising slogan, especially if you refused or neglected to read _all_ the information on the product. Or did you get wings from Red Bull ? > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > but it is true that EVE servers have roughly half the concurrent users from their peak about a decade ago. And how long did that peak last, and why did it last (only) that long ? A case of “many were called, few were chosen” ? > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > As an example, a post from another thread about the [winter omega sales](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/where-are-the-omega-sales/433533): What the good people in that thread did not mention, or simply forgot or weren’t aware of, is the fact that there has been the “usual” 20% off Omega offer in August. I know, because I bought it and am safely sub’d into 2025. How you construe that to mean “many people who find the current pricing to not be worth their money” instead of the truism that “people are looking for a bargain near the holidays” is mildly amusing and very much misleading. And perhaps ccp will have a pure 20% omega offer before this year’s end, like they had on Dec 28, 2022. > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > Considering the fact that both uprising and viridian were fairly alpha friendly content releases, it’s very possible subscriber numbers not only didn’t climb, but they very well could have dropped further. It’s always amusing how people read into the PCU graph and interpret it in any way that suits the “point” they want to defend _mordicus_. Even when that includes the use of unsubstantiated hence unverifiable claims. It’s “very possible they (_subscriber numbers_) could have dropped further”, being overshadowed by totally naive, new alpha accounts who were drawn in via Steam because of “havoc” ? That’s some funny fabrication there, sowing doubt like a pro but never showing the underlying numbers - because _you_, nor any other non-CCP’er, have access to those - and hence only have a single point through which you can draw an infinite number of lines. > [@Rail\_J\_kar](#): > > separating caps into a higher payment tier could be one of those ways to move forward. Setting up one part of the player population against another is not very Christmassy, if not simply discrimination without any basis whatsoever. That would come down to "let’s increase sub prices for anyone who has more than x number of SP or x levels in the following skills: … ". How about giving Cap pilots a discount instead for 1) having not much use for cap ships these days and 2) feeling the results of “scarcity”. LOL. See ? That would be a more popular suggestion, and is likely to draw more people back into the game than what you’re suggesting. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introduce-a-new-class-of-subscription-beta-players-cheaper-than-omega-better-than-alpha/432838.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introduce-a-new-class-of-subscription-beta-players-cheaper-than-omega-better-than-alpha/432838.md?page=3)