# Introducing The Winter Expansion - EVE Online: Lifeblood **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Created:** [September 1, 2017, 5:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introducing-the-winter-expansion-eve-online-lifeblood/21284 "2017-09-01T17:53:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Namaan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/namaan/32/15730_2.png) [@Namaan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Namaan)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introducing-the-winter-expansion-eve-online-lifeblood/21284/270 "2017-09-05T18:08:02Z")
> [@Buoytender\_Bob](#): > > But that isn’the the main problem, the lack of solo/optional group activities are the reason most HS people are upset. Even the CSM admits that the new content will appeal to a very small fraction of HS; a group already well covered by Incursions. > > The problem has been that CCP has always relied on a relatively passive way to collect data to determine what HS players are looking in development. Fanest and the CSM are dominated by members of large corps/alliances and living in NS or LS. Hisec,to them, is merely an area that they can sell their NS gains, generate isk by incursions or industry, and indulge in some random ganking for giggles. They’re not evil, but they have a lifestyle and needs far different than the average HS player. > > Let us have CCP utilize these boards to mine data on this issue. Have the ISDS and the community coordinator go through all the postings and note ones that offer reasonable concerns but, more importantly, reasonable solutions to the game’s deficiencies. Compose a list and send them a message asking for their imput; perhaps having a framework of talking points/questions that helps CCP find the information they are looking for. Don’t rely on information come to you, actively seek the data. > > By relying on data sources and opinions from groups that are not the main users of an area, CCP has had their development skewed off course in regards to HS. As long as development resources are turning to be so limited, it is important that CCP uses it wisely. Another form of “incursion-lite” is not what is needed now. Please ask directly the people who are most effected by any plans. Don’t worry, I’m sure that null will be fine. And I agree with you, my point for at this moment is we need solo-able content that is random and in the player’s face… That is EVE, and it shouldn’t be hard to make something that is more active, or even reactive than a passive off in the ass end of the system Station to be farmed by not small/solo groups for little payoff other than pretty explosions. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 7:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introducing-the-winter-expansion-eve-online-lifeblood/21284/271 "2017-09-05T19:03:23Z")
What is going on here is exactly what many of us said would happen when Sugar Kyle brought this idea up: [https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/message/6084088/#post6084088](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/message/6084088/#post6084088) No one can agree what a highsec expansion is suppose to be, not even what would be ‘good’ PvE. Some want more of the same - predictable, solo-able, linear and consequence-free, while other want some next-level killer-AI challenging stuff (or at least say they want that). There is nothing CCP can come to the table with that will placate all the people perma-clamouring for highsec attention. That said, let’s give them a chance here. We haven’t seen the details on what they intend with these FOBs, and they very well could have structured the rewards to pander to the self-entitled highsec crowd. Even if they haven’t, the FOBs still could serve as an update/replacement for highsec incursioners to get their group PvP fix in a new way. And in that case, there still is the Resource Wars thing could very well be just the thing for a solo, casual highsec player to get their PvE content in a new way that ties in to the shared universe we are all suppose to be part of. Or maybe it will all suck and be ignored by just about everyone. In any case though, there will be plenty of time for hysterics and playing the blame game once the details are announced. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves shall we? I’m with Jin here, those who have been asking for new highsec content should be at least cautiously optimistic, if not over the moon that they finally are getting some new things to play with and they will be here in only weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Sophie\_Mcgalien\_Hoeeg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sophie_mcgalien_hoeeg/32/22063_2.png) [@Sophie\_Mcgalien\_Hoeeg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sophie_Mcgalien_Hoeeg)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introducing-the-winter-expansion-eve-online-lifeblood/21284/272 "2017-09-05T19:39:26Z")
Since the dev-blog area is part of old forum and not writeble any longer I will use this since the refineries comes out with this patch. Anyhow, you are saying that you won’t bring moon-goo mining to hi-sec and in a way I understand that. But please make the mining drill viable in high-sec by generating astroid belts with reguler ore but in much higher quantity that is normally available in reguler belts. maybe give a chance for low-sec ores to appear. As it is right now these refineries is kinda worthless for high-sec. It is more often than not cheaper to haul ore to null-sec refine it there then haul it back to high-sec, with 0 risk involved. Since teethering is a thing. And raitaru’s with 1 rig for high-sec ore is dirt cheap and will easily pay itself back with 1 day of mining with a proper high-sec mining corp. 1 Raitaru = 487m 1month of continuous fuel cost 72m isk 1 rig cost 470m isk 1 skiff can mine 284k plagioclase/hour With a profit of 27% after hauling it to null and back again That is a profit of roughly 5m isk per hour. Thus it would only take 1 miner 205 hours to pay 1 raitaru back + 1 month of fuel. Or in the case of a proper high-sec mining corp 2 operations a month at the most. ---
**Author:** ![Yiole\_Gionglao](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yiole_gionglao/32/516090_2.png) [@Yiole\_Gionglao](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yiole_Gionglao)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introducing-the-winter-expansion-eve-online-lifeblood/21284/273 "2017-09-05T19:47:50Z")
Well, it doesn’t takes many details to know that group content is not what highsec solo players need, and conversely, highsec solo players are not getting anything from this Lifeblood expansion. So, at which point should we start objecting CCP’s work for highsec, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introducing-the-winter-expansion-eve-online-lifeblood/21284/274 "2017-09-05T19:58:46Z")
> [@Yiole\_Gionglao](#): > > So, at which point should we start objecting CCP’s work for highsec, exactly? When they actually release the devblog that confirms your assumptions. As it is, we have nothing but a top level description of either of these new PvE features. We didn’t know if one or both is intended to be group content or not. They are also adding a group finder (maybe?). I’m not saying that will make the hermits happy, but spend the next week or two sharpening your pitchfork and only bring it out once you a sure CCP hasn’t pandered sufficiently to your whims when we get the next devblogs. ---
**Author:** ![Yiole\_Gionglao](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yiole_gionglao/32/516090_2.png) [@Yiole\_Gionglao](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yiole_Gionglao)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introducing-the-winter-expansion-eve-online-lifeblood/21284/275 "2017-09-05T20:07:40Z")
Just read the instructions… err… descriptions: "_Resource Wars_ As pirate forces encroach on the borders of New Eden’s sovereign nations, capsuleers are being contracted to assist with resource gathering operations in high security space. Forming part of resource gathering expeditions as combat or mining pilots, capsuleers both young and old will be able to take part in **collaborative gameplay with other capsuleers** to assist their chosen empire with the release of EVE Online: Lifeblood." "_Pirate Forward Operating Bases_ Increased conflict over dwindling resources across New Eden has caused the Guristas and Blood Raiders to expand their influence and industrial capability, staging daring raids into high-security space which lies under the sovereignty of the empires. New pirate Forward Operating Bases – or FOBs – have been spotted across New Eden, creating new opportunities for **groups of likeminded capsuleers** to band together and work toward driving out the threat. Scan them down and hit them hard to reap the rewards from defeating hostile forces." It’s pretty obvious that they are not intended to be done alone. Thus they’re useless to address the issues and needs of highsec PvE. They’re just a wasted effort. ---
**Author:** ![Buoytender\_Bob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buoytender_bob/32/374377_2.png) [@Buoytender\_Bob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buoytender_Bob)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introducing-the-winter-expansion-eve-online-lifeblood/21284/276 "2017-09-05T20:12:47Z")
Hmm, let’s see: “self enittled”, “hermits”, “pandered to”…well, that mild from a CODE player. At least you have fair request that we all should wait to see what CCP drops on HS, but a little less “git gud” or whatever your group says would be appreciated. Expected,no; appreciated,yes.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introducing-the-winter-expansion-eve-online-lifeblood/21284/277 "2017-09-05T20:15:18Z")
But the bully is the “ganker” or loot thief in EvE … few in EvE feel a victory or accomplishment for beating the environment the 1000th time, it’s the ISK and loot … if you want to get more themepark players into EvE, the game’s core has to change. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introducing-the-winter-expansion-eve-online-lifeblood/21284/278 "2017-09-05T20:20:09Z")
> [@Yiole\_Gionglao](#): > > It’s pretty obvious that they are not intended to be done alone. Thus they’re useless to address the issues and needs of highsec PvE. > > They’re just a wasted effort. Faction Warfare is a feature that is currently “collaborative” but has plenty of space for solo players to participate from 'Plexes to missions. Just because the feature has a premise that has sides or teams doesn’t necessarily means there won’t be stuff for a solo casual player to do. Or maybe it won’t. We don’t know. Perhaps it won’t be your cup of tea, but seriously we’ll have all the details in less than a month so I still maintain you should save your agitating until you are sure you didn’t get what you think you are entitled to. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introducing-the-winter-expansion-eve-online-lifeblood/21284/279 "2017-09-05T20:21:41Z")
Don’t know why you replied to my post talking about group content when I was agreeing with Drago about having solo content. Aside from everyone not getting a shiny reward, another major problem with group content is that everyone has to be present at a specific time to start it. ---
**Author:** ![Aareya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aareya/32/184806_2.png) [@Aareya](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aareya)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introducing-the-winter-expansion-eve-online-lifeblood/21284/280 "2017-09-05T20:23:41Z")
> [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > They are also adding a group finder (maybe?) This would be a nice addition. Some players play the game solo because they want to. Others play solo because they have trouble finding a group of players. If there is a UI where you can find a fleet doing a PVE thing, join it, do the PVE, then leave, that would be hugely beneficial. Group play without having to apply to a corporation and go through a complicated recruitment process with API’s, interviews, etc. I play another game mostly solo. But once in a while, I jump into a raid for a big PVE thing, it lasts 20-30 minutes, then its over. I leave and can continue doing my solo thing. ---
**Author:** ![Yiole\_Gionglao](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yiole_gionglao/32/516090_2.png) [@Yiole\_Gionglao](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yiole_Gionglao)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introducing-the-winter-expansion-eve-online-lifeblood/21284/281 "2017-09-05T20:29:51Z")
LOL I am not entitled anything. I would return to EVE if CCP added more Level 4 missions just to support my point that that’s one of the things that highsec PvE needs -a continuous stream of new jiggsaw puzzles for players to tinker with them. Old mechanics, new picture, let’s play. But that isn’t going to happen. More could be built on that foundation, but why bother writing about it? CCP is not adding new missions even as it’s the single most demanded thing whenever someone (say, Sugar Kyle) engages the untouchables to know what do they think of their trade. So far “customer oriented design”. Highseccers want more damsels to rescue, CCP comes with recycled nullsec garbage after two years of content drought. Do you see a problem here? ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introducing-the-winter-expansion-eve-online-lifeblood/21284/282 "2017-09-05T20:43:53Z")
There’s already a ‘Group Finder’ option available in-game called ‘Fleet Finder’ located in the Neocom. When selected it opens the Fleet window where pilots can join available fleets, start a new fleet or manage a current fleet. The list of available fleets include information on the fleet commander, and if shared, fleet size and current location. The main problem is it’s rarely used in high sec space for that purpose because it’s actually more usable as intel for gank squads. ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 8:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introducing-the-winter-expansion-eve-online-lifeblood/21284/283 "2017-09-05T20:46:02Z")
Sounds like an SoE mission then… ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 8:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introducing-the-winter-expansion-eve-online-lifeblood/21284/284 "2017-09-05T20:57:23Z")
> [@Yiole\_Gionglao](#): > > So far “customer oriented design”. Highseccers want more damsels to rescue, CCP comes with recycled nullsec garbage after two years of content drought. Do you see a problem here? Do they? Because I have heard all sorts of claims of what “highseccers want”. I am not sure there is any consensus that “they” only want new level 4 missions in the same vein as the Damsel. Ask yourself, are you upset with the new content you don’t have the details of, or are you really just angry over the last few years of highsec neglect on the part of CCP? If it is the latter, I suggest you just hold back a bit until the reveal before you unload both barrels on CCP. It isn’t very becoming to throw a tantrum on the cusp of CCP trying to make amends. At least open the box of chocolates and look inside before you decide to throw it back in their face. ---
**Author:** ![Yiole\_Gionglao](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yiole_gionglao/32/516090_2.png) [@Yiole\_Gionglao](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yiole_Gionglao)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 9:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introducing-the-winter-expansion-eve-online-lifeblood/21284/285 "2017-09-05T21:01:59Z")
Yeah, why bother finding your next awoxer/ganker/leeroyjenkins/et cetera? Group content just caters to existing groups. And the msot notoriosu highsec groups are nullsec alts… not necessarily a bad thing, I mean, my first true mentor in game was a nullsec FC who used his HS alt to relax and take some green mission runners under his wing, pew-pewing frigates away from his BS, which back then was as a OMGawesome Golem. But seriously, grouping in highsec is a liability more than an advantage. Unless you already are in a goup. ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_taan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_taan/32/381307_2.png) [@Jin\_taan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_taan)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introducing-the-winter-expansion-eve-online-lifeblood/21284/286 "2017-09-05T21:10:28Z")
> [@Drago\_Shouna](#): > > How many HS solo players do you think can really be bothered with waiting a week to unanchor a Citadel or anything else? 🤔 I’m pretty sure if they want to make the most money - which going through the effort of anchoring and launching a citadel and then fitting it with the requisite rigs implies that they do - they’ll swap the rigs over to a refinery and sell the Astra. But, hey, maybe some players are so casual they won’t do that. > [@Drago\_Shouna](#): > > I’ve seen some of your presentations in Nottingham and you talk sense…but…isn’t LS/NS small gang PVP more of your speciality? Actually I’m more of a mid-large scale FC primarily, but I take pride in finding out as many aspects of the game as possible. I’ve advocated for everything from making the starting overview/tutorial not bad (going through the effort of making my 16 y/o brother and 70+ y/o grandmother play the tutorial to find the flaws), to getting repairs added to the combat log so people can see how effective they’re being when they play the logistics role. > [@Drago\_Shouna](#): > > Also, once again as many have mentioned in here, group PVE in HS is very likely doomed from the off. That’s what the CSM and CCP don’t understand…I hope I’m wrong, but I’m going to turn up at the first one and watch the mayhem 🙂 I’m not getting _why_ group PvE is something that can’t work on a casual basis when it does in other areas of the game. At the current time, it’s got a high barrier of entry as the only real, scalable option is incursions, and these either have high requirements to get in as they’re contested (VG/HQ), or are incredibly difficult when compared to rewards given (Scout/Assault). Lowering the barrier of entry and getting more people involved in group activities has worked to promote the social gameplay that is the lifeblood of any MMO, not just EVE. Solo PvE is fine and all, but I’m of the opinion that it should be strictly inferior in the long run to social/group PvE, as that’s how you get people to interact with one another and generate the kind of stickiness that keeps people involved with EVE for years upon years. If I was still mission running in my Maelstrom, I guarantee I wouldn’t be here today, after 9 years. > [@Drago\_Shouna](#): > > Solo and Small corp players need something that isn’t a money pit as the new structures are. And, why can’t Resource Wars or FoB’s be this? Why can’t a small corp run a FoB wherever they live, giving them a reason to be close together and work on a project? Why can’t a solo player do some Resource Wars and find a corp through that? Perhaps I’ve lost touch with the casual playerbase, but the amount of pessimism here is something I’d expect from the nullsec/lowsec vets who’ve found out that the problems they’re facing aren’t going to be touched in the next 6 months - not the people who CCP are actually trying to help keep involved in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Yiole\_Gionglao](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yiole_gionglao/32/516090_2.png) [@Yiole\_Gionglao](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yiole_Gionglao)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introducing-the-winter-expansion-eve-online-lifeblood/21284/287 "2017-09-05T21:12:19Z")
Didn’t say it’s the only thing, but seriously, it’s something everybody agrees that would do no harm, would increase the longevity of the mission running career and roughly 70% of people who answered Sugar Kyle’s blog asked for it. And guess what… CCP developed mission building tools so thay hadn’t to be literally handwritten. Those tools haven’t been used since Burner missions were added, and they were also a failure… unless the plan was that agents would offer 4, 5 or even 6 Burner missions in a row as they were being added to the roll way, way, WAY faster than they were being removed by dudes actually bothering to run them. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 9:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introducing-the-winter-expansion-eve-online-lifeblood/21284/288 "2017-09-05T21:47:36Z")
I’ve been a PvE player mainly in high sec for over 9 years. I’ve also been an active member of these forums for almost as long. I don’t know why some players keep saying most high sec PvE players want new group oriented PvE content added to the game. I haven’t seen a lot of requests for that and as a solo player, that’s something I don’t particularly want. More importantly, there’s already plenty of options available in game to make that happen. New missions? Sure, but I’d like to see those come from new agents based on exploration. And I’m not talking about killing Drifters or doing Burner type missions. I’m talking about having ‘Search & Rescue’ and ‘Retrieval’ type missions that involve scanning down mission specific sites in known space as well as scanning and entering mission specific w-holes, then scan down the mission site, complete the objective and report back to agent. Some missions could incorporate Logistics game play, such as provide remote repair on a station or find and repair a stranded ship. There could even be multi-part mission’s that incorporate Industry game play, such as retrieve a few specific items which have to be assembled with some minerals to create an item which is used to complete the final mission. Since it’s an exploration agent, all missions would involve probe scanning mission specific sites in both known space and w-hole space. That’s the type of new PvE content I’d like to see added to the game. Content that will utilize all of my skills, content that I can complete solo without having to rely on other players who may or may not show up. ---
**Author:** ![Buoytender\_Bob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buoytender_bob/32/374377_2.png) [@Buoytender\_Bob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buoytender_Bob)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 9:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introducing-the-winter-expansion-eve-online-lifeblood/21284/289 "2017-09-05T21:51:43Z")
Exactly! We’really not asking for a change in game mechanics,just a change in how HS PvE is generated. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introducing-the-winter-expansion-eve-online-lifeblood/21284.md?page=13) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/introducing-the-winter-expansion-eve-online-lifeblood/21284.md?page=15)