# Invasion - is NOT FUN **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 7, 2020, 8:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/invasion-is-not-fun/230533 "2020-04-07T08:06:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Syn\_Shi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syn_shi/32/242535_2.png) [@Syn\_Shi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syn_Shi)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 2:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/invasion-is-not-fun/230533/243 "2020-06-01T02:51:58Z")
I could point you to many videos of CCP saying all play styles are valid but it doesn’t matter because all you want to do is troll. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 2:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/invasion-is-not-fun/230533/244 "2020-06-01T02:55:19Z")
You might be able to find a video of them saying it, but actions speak louder than words and their actions say they don’t care about people who want to opt out of PvP entirely. PvP still exists everywhere in EVE, and if anything CCP is now _increasing_ the risk and difficulty to prevent AFK farming. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 3:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/invasion-is-not-fun/230533/245 "2020-06-01T03:11:15Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > > [@James\_Cannon\_Fodder](#): > > > > > Which group do you think buys more plex in the eve store? > > Not the farmer trash, since the whole point of farming is making tons of ISK and not needing to buy PLEX. The only people with any need to buy PLEX are PvP players who don’t want to take a break in the action to replace their losses. It’s amazing how many people use his argument and don’t realize just how _nonsensical_ it is. Carebear farmers don’t buy PLEX to sell for ISK because they are trying to **farm** their ISK. That is **literally** why they play. If they sold PLEX, they wouldn’t be out in the belts and missions grinding out their 20 million ISK per hour from the gaming equivalent of brain death. So yeah, it’s fairly obvious which group buys more PLEX in the store (hint: it’s not the stupid one that spends 50 hours of their personal time trying to accomplish what an hour of minimum-wage real-life labor could do instead). ---
**Author:** ![James\_Cannon\_Fodder](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/james_cannon_fodder/32/207357_2.png) [@James\_Cannon\_Fodder](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/James_Cannon_Fodder)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 5:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/invasion-is-not-fun/230533/246 "2020-06-01T05:12:37Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > I’m not mad at all. I just want them to stop trying to change this game into something that it never was advertised to be, or intended to become. It sounds like it is already doing that. It sounds like you’re just mad that it isn’t profitable because the people who choose to fight you don’t drop expensive stuff. But, there is no possible way it ever would be. Get rid of high sec. Get rid of all the protections. Do whatever you want. You will NEVER be able to make much money ganking because if it were beginning to be a huge loss for them, most of the carebears would simply stop moving merchandise. (And either become pvp like you, or stop playing the game altogether.) People don’t usually play just to lose. They must at least hope (however naively) to be able to win. ---
**Author:** ![James\_Cannon\_Fodder](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/james_cannon_fodder/32/207357_2.png) [@James\_Cannon\_Fodder](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/James_Cannon_Fodder)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 5:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/invasion-is-not-fun/230533/247 "2020-06-01T05:15:52Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > It’s amazing how many people use his argument and don’t realize just how _nonsensical_ it is. Carebear farmers don’t buy PLEX to sell for ISK because they are trying to **farm** their ISK. That is **literally** why they play. If they sold PLEX, they wouldn’t be out in the belts and missions grinding out their 20 million ISK per hour from the gaming equivalent of brain death. > > So yeah, it’s fairly obvious which group buys more PLEX in the store (hint: it’s not the stupid one that spends 50 hours of their personal time trying to accomplish what an hour of minimum-wage real-life labor could do instead). Ehhhh… no. They usually fail to get enough ISK. It’s like I told you: gambling addicts. They sure think they’ll get enough ISK. They think that. They say “This will be the last time I plex. The LAST!!! I Swear it!!!” And then they plex again. You can only realistically make enough ISK ratting if you play all day. And most people can’t play all day because they have to work. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 5:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/invasion-is-not-fun/230533/248 "2020-06-01T05:39:50Z")
> [@James\_Cannon\_Fodder](#): > > It sounds like you’re just mad [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/8/d/8d599a00274c7bd50b6bb23216f8de3b21f0868e.jpeg "Princess Bride You keep using that word") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64BOxYpVZpU) > [@James\_Cannon\_Fodder](#): > > You will NEVER be able to make much money ganking because if it were beginning to be a huge loss for them, most of the carebears would simply stop moving merchandise. (And either become pvp like you, or stop playing the game altogether.) If they stop moving it, then I’ll start moving it. Hell, I would be doing it _today_ if they didn’t completely destroy the profit margins of most PvE activities. And no, they will never become PvP “like me,” because it’s against their very nature. > [@James\_Cannon\_Fodder](#): > > > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > > > It’s amazing how many people use his argument and don’t realize just how _nonsensical_ it is. Carebear farmers don’t buy PLEX to sell for ISK because they are trying to **farm** their ISK. That is **literally** why they play. If they sold PLEX, they wouldn’t be out in the belts and missions grinding out their 20 million ISK per hour from the gaming equivalent of brain death. > > > > So yeah, it’s fairly obvious which group buys more PLEX in the store (hint: it’s not the stupid one that spends 50 hours of their personal time trying to accomplish what an hour of minimum-wage real-life labor could do instead). > > Ehhhh… no. > > They usually fail to get enough ISK. > > It’s like I told you: gambling addicts. They sure think they’ll get enough ISK. They think that. > > They say “This will be the last time I plex. The LAST!!! I Swear it!!!” And then they plex again. > > You can only realistically make enough ISK ratting if you play all day. And most people can’t play all day because they have to work. They fail to get enough ISK because they limit themselves to the most low-end, bottom-feeder PvE content available. They could _easily_ do something else, and even with the losses from the increased risk taken into account, still make _vastly_ more profits than they do today. This is their fault, not mine. So why exactly should CCP prioritize the needs of those players over the needs of players like me? Because they spend money? Well I spend money too, so that point is moot. You’re not going to be able to satisfy everyone, especially when dealing with two diametrically-opposed players groups such as the ones we find in EVE: one that wants to PvP, and one that wants PvP to _not exist at all_. At that point, you just have to pick your poison, and it seems to me that that’s _exactly_ what CCP did when they created this game almost 20 years ago, before a good chunk of its current player base was _was even born_. ---
**Author:** ![Vals\_Loeder](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vals_loeder/32/192416_2.png) [@Vals\_Loeder](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vals_Loeder)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 5:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/invasion-is-not-fun/230533/249 "2020-06-01T05:56:32Z")
> [@James\_Cannon\_Fodder](#): > > This game has a lot of appeal to people who work 60 hour weeks at hard jobs. Who only have a little bit if time in their day for entertainment. Citation needed. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 6:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/invasion-is-not-fun/230533/250 "2020-06-01T06:48:10Z")
> [@James\_Cannon\_Fodder](#): > > They > [@James\_Cannon\_Fodder](#): > > They > [@James\_Cannon\_Fodder](#): > > They You seem to have so much to say about other people! Yet the only thing you talk is strawmen. ---
**Author:** ![Gergoran\_Moussou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gergoran_moussou/32/381607_2.png) [@Gergoran\_Moussou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gergoran_Moussou)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 7:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/invasion-is-not-fun/230533/251 "2020-06-01T07:24:08Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > that PvP is **our** income stream, If it was, I’d be even more broke than I already am. I prefer having an actual income stream (the previous Triglavian content was one of my main ones, for example). ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 7:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/invasion-is-not-fun/230533/252 "2020-06-01T07:33:38Z")
But… That income comes from drops and salvage doesnt it? Apart from red tickets, do you use that material yourself? ---
**Author:** ![Gergoran\_Moussou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gergoran_moussou/32/381607_2.png) [@Gergoran\_Moussou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gergoran_Moussou)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 7:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/invasion-is-not-fun/230533/253 "2020-06-01T07:56:15Z")
Observatory flashpoint sites. Triglavian side. Navy rats don’t have good drops besides the Zirnitra blueprints and skillbooks. However the site completion payout is a bit over 100 million ISK per site if paid out to 15 or fewer people (decreases with the sixteenth and each following person tagging the tower). Closer to 150 million in Low-Sec. And while the optimal fleet composition uses expensive battleships like Incursions, you can do a somewhat slower clear in afterburning frigates and destroyers with sites in Caldari space. Caldari Navy rats use missile damage application, so a fast-moving, small-signature target will take consistently low damage rather than occasionally get some lucky shots off (which would get these ships occasionally killed in one shot by the NPC Moros/Revelation/Naglfar). The only rats that pose a serious threat to this composition are frigates because they can apply to the fleet. The people who I run with manage to get this under an hour (but are temporarily on hiatus to evaluate how things have changed and because most of us are in Pandemic Horde, which has had a lot of other stuff going last week). Doing this in Caldari Low-Sec might not clear sites as fast, but purely in site payout, it can actually be more ISK per hour than running them in Amarr High-Sec (since most people would be reluctant to bring a PVE-fit fleet of Leshaks and Nestors that each cost something like the total cost of this fleet). ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 8:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/invasion-is-not-fun/230533/254 "2020-06-01T08:01:04Z")
Im not sure how any of that relates. Let me ask a clearer question; In what manner are you paid for completing the content you do? Is it bounties or is it something else? ---
**Author:** ![Gergoran\_Moussou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gergoran_moussou/32/381607_2.png) [@Gergoran\_Moussou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gergoran_Moussou)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 8:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/invasion-is-not-fun/230533/255 "2020-06-01T08:08:54Z")
There’s an automatic ISK payout added to the wallets of every capsuleer who is on-grid when the site is competed and who either did damage to the tower or provided remote assistance to a ship which damaged the tower (I’m usually logi, so this is me, I’m guessing that if I only repaired someone who had left grid, I wouldn’t get a payout). It works like bounties and mission completions in that a corp tax is deducted. So yeah. It’s pretty much a bounty. It just doesn’t require you to wait 20 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 8:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/invasion-is-not-fun/230533/256 "2020-06-01T08:09:38Z")
Ah fair enough, didnt know these were a thing for trigs now, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Gergoran\_Moussou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gergoran_moussou/32/381607_2.png) [@Gergoran\_Moussou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gergoran_Moussou)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 8:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/invasion-is-not-fun/230533/257 "2020-06-01T08:12:50Z")
When this group first started, we were bringing in something like 350 million ISK per pilot per hour total after selling the Zirnitra blueprints, but those crashed pretty soon after. Continued to be extremely good ISK, though. ---
**Author:** ![ImYourMom](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/imyourmom/32/373824_2.png) [@ImYourMom](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ImYourMom)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 9:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/invasion-is-not-fun/230533/258 "2020-06-01T09:56:38Z")
Im going to come in on OPs defence. Its got nothing to do with Hello Kitty, if players simply cant even do the basics then how is that fun? With all incursions its a get involved if you want option. Rats don’t attack you unless you attack them type of thing. All this will do is lose more players, when we are supposed to be gaining more. Stop making people play YOUR game. Everyone is different. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 10:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/invasion-is-not-fun/230533/259 "2020-06-01T10:21:13Z")
> [@ImYourMom](#): > > if players simply cant even do the basics then how is that fun? cant =/= wont If they cant operate d-scan, or do any research, how do they even operate thier space machines ? ---
**Author:** ![Syn\_Shi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syn_shi/32/242535_2.png) [@Syn\_Shi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syn_Shi)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 1:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/invasion-is-not-fun/230533/260 "2020-06-01T13:08:42Z")
The trend for 17 years is they leave. Every year CCP always talks about player retention and every year you hear lets go after new hi-sec players from people like you. Stop trolling as I see you have this arguement going on in multiple threads. ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 1:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/invasion-is-not-fun/230533/261 "2020-06-01T13:11:28Z")
> [@Syn\_Shi](#): > > for 17 years Maybe you should think about that some more… ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 1:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/invasion-is-not-fun/230533/262 "2020-06-01T13:13:17Z")
> [@Syn\_Shi](#): > > every year you hear lets go after new hi-sec players from people like you Quote where I even came close to saying that. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/invasion-is-not-fun/230533.md?page=11) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/invasion-is-not-fun/230533.md?page=13)