# Is the "Freedom" of Eve its Inevitable Downfall? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 26, 2026, 5:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-the-freedom-of-eve-its-inevitable-downfall/508883 "2026-03-26T05:25:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2026, 1:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-the-freedom-of-eve-its-inevitable-downfall/508883/22 "2026-03-27T01:21:28Z")
> [@Eternus8lux8lucis](#): > > Whereas in Eve, you can be a total white knight, hero character OR choose to live in such a way as to be the villain. How does anyone be a white knight in EVE ? Its a _meaningless_ concept in EVE. You could argue that someone helping other players to learn or with providing ships is a white knight….but then if you help someone who’s just going to be another white knight then what is any of this ultimately actually helping _towards_ ? In an EVE full of white knights….nobody is really a white knight as there’s no villains necessitating white knights. But if a helper is helping someone be a villain….well then do they still qualify as a white knight ? Ultimately, the only EVE that makes sense is one in which everyone is a villain. And hey….that is pretty much how the very original Eve Online trailer presented it…. [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/0/e/1/0e1df1685812c1e56f4170d0ce0eaac8be3a20cc.jpeg "Original EVE Online Trailer (2003)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwpgXFA3UQk) ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2026, 2:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-the-freedom-of-eve-its-inevitable-downfall/508883/23 "2026-03-27T02:22:40Z")
> [@Eternus8lux8lucis](#): > > This really could be argued on a lot of levels. When free choice is mandated by an entity, in this case CCPs game design, are the choices made inherently “free” at all? But that is an existential and philosophical argument about real freedom and draws on the free will vs. determinism debate. Do people really ‘choose’ to be miners ? I mean, people see an advert for this epic space game full of battles and intrigue and backstabbing, etc…..and their first thought is ‘ Oh my God…yes I must join that and watch a mining laser 8 hours a day !’ ? No. They join EVE expecting excitement and adventure in space. They start to mine to ‘make some ISK’….and then they end up _stuck_ on that path and yet persuade themselves its what they wanted all along. They’ve basically given up on the exciting adventure in space, or don’t have the gumption for it they thought they had, so they persuade themselves that they ‘chose’ to do nothing but mining. ---
**Author:** ![Christine\_Creed](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/christine_creed/32/510186_2.png) [@Christine\_Creed](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Christine_Creed)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2026, 2:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-the-freedom-of-eve-its-inevitable-downfall/508883/24 "2026-03-27T02:37:10Z")
> [@Gloria\_Exercitus](#): > > Do people really ‘choose’ to be miners ? I mean, people see an advert for this epic space game full of battles and intrigue and backstabbing, etc…..and their first thought is ‘ Oh my God…yes I must join that and watch a mining laser 8 hours a day !’ ? Yes, they do. Im proof of this very mentality. Call it crazy if you wish. 🙂 When i joined this game, i was first approached by a mining group and they helped me a ton. I saw what they were doing and learned the reasons for doing it. It intrigued me then and it still intrigues me to this day. It all made a huge impact on me….as im sure the first pirate or combat pilot did you. I even had corpies tell me to get involved with the combat in the game. I wasnt interested. I didnt start really dabbling into any combat until months later. Youre right, once combat bites you then its fun. I wont argue with that. > [@Gloria\_Exercitus](#): > > …. **and then they end up _stuck_ on that path and yet persuade themselves its what they wanted all along.** They’ve basically given up on the exciting adventure in space, or don’t have the gumption for it they thought they had, so they persuade themselves that they ‘chose’ to do nothing but mining. Another slightly inaccurate statement. Not everyone in this game is like you or have the same goals as you…or any other combat oriented pilot. I think you sometimes forget that there are more facets to this game for some except just to fly around and viciously kill. Im not knocking your play style to enjoy the game…remember i support you folks that blow things up…….please dont knock my play style and make it something its not. 🌹 We do exist….even if it baffles you to ponder about it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2026, 2:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-the-freedom-of-eve-its-inevitable-downfall/508883/25 "2026-03-27T02:52:57Z")
> [@Christine\_Creed](#): > > I even had corpies tell me to get involved with the combat in the game. I wasnt interested. I didnt start really dabbling into any combat until months later. > > Youre right, once combat bites you then its fun. I wont argue with that. But that’s just my point. I started out as a carebear miner. And if it hadn’t been for being ganked and that leading to a Khan type ‘I’ll get even’ response…..I’d probably still be a miner today. Actually, more than likely I’d have left the game by now due to boredom. ---
**Author:** ![Christine\_Creed](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/christine_creed/32/510186_2.png) [@Christine\_Creed](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Christine_Creed)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2026, 3:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-the-freedom-of-eve-its-inevitable-downfall/508883/26 "2026-03-27T03:01:41Z")
> [@Gloria\_Exercitus](#): > > But that’s just my point. I started out as a carebear miner. And if it hadn’t been for being ganked and that leading to a Khan type ‘I’ll get even’ response…..I’d probably still be a miner today. Actually, more than likely I’d have left the game by now due to boredom. Perhaps that is the point, i can see it. I guess that revenge is just more pronounced with some rather than others. I got blown up so many times during wardecs on my other account, its not even funny. Im just bad at the whole pvp thing. Ive admitted it long ago. Ive never been ganked so i dont know that revengeful feeling from that. What i did learn and take very seriously…is the survival aspect. Thats the part of this game that excites me. Knowing that _you_…..the evil pirate, the ganker, the suspect hunter, the villain…or whatever one may be want to label themselves…….are the people ive built my ships for. I know youre there…..i have my peepers on local looking out for you…..im ready to gtfo if youre after me. That excites me….even as a dirty little miner. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2026, 3:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-the-freedom-of-eve-its-inevitable-downfall/508883/27 "2026-03-27T03:17:11Z")
> [@Christine\_Creed](#): > > Im just bad at the whole pvp thing. Ive admitted it long ago. I’ve learned a _huge_ amount via suspect hunting. Ship fittings, including modules many have never heard of, escape bookmarks, tactics, how to recognise potential danger, baiting methods, Ship fitting is now my #1 skill..and I can get stuff out of ships I’d never even have imagined before. ---
**Author:** ![Lucy\_Alfrir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucy_alfrir/32/382506_2.png) [@Lucy\_Alfrir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucy_Alfrir)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2026, 10:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-the-freedom-of-eve-its-inevitable-downfall/508883/28 "2026-03-27T10:57:14Z")
> [@Eternus8lux8lucis](#): > > Personally, I always liked the dangerous aspect of the environment in Eve due to the players. I was greatly disappointed when CCP went the way of the abyss, where NPCs created the danger rather than players themselves, but thats a side note for another discussion. I couldn’t agree more, the attraction for me of EvE was that is was an uninstanced sandbox, so everyone is somewhere you can be too, but abyss broke that. ---
**Author:** ![Inxentas\_Ultramar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/inxentas_ultramar/32/385922_2.png) [@Inxentas\_Ultramar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Inxentas_Ultramar)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2026, 1:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-the-freedom-of-eve-its-inevitable-downfall/508883/29 "2026-03-27T13:51:33Z")
I’m 44 years old and when other people experince freedom I just experience that I’m on one of the many allowed paths. That freedom is a bit of an illusion, and we’re all railroaded into behaviors by people who’ve studied ours for decades. And yes, abyss broke the lack of instancing, which is a shame. ---
**Author:** ![Eternus8lux8lucis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eternus8lux8lucis/32/385152_2.png) [@Eternus8lux8lucis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eternus8lux8lucis)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2026, 12:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-the-freedom-of-eve-its-inevitable-downfall/508883/30 "2026-03-28T00:10:17Z")
> [@Gloria\_Exercitus](#): > > Do people really ‘choose’ to be miners ? Just because you cannot fathom the reason someone does X, Y or Z doesnt mean they are crazy simply because you have issues with it. I have mined, pirated, ganked, pod ganked, lived everywhere except a WH and Pochven, and been to the AT, done immense amounts of FW, FCed low sec roams and incursions, I have built empires with manufacturing, blasted suspects and survived several burn Jitas, taught noobs, helped my friends take space, done PI to the extreme, and almost everything Eve has to offer including pretending to be a woman and got men to give me isk and things. It’s been a long, strange, crazy ride these past 2 decades. Yet I find mining relaxing and chill. I started mining while I read the lore that CCP had put out, chatted with friends in and out of game and find it useful as a tool with a means to an end. Did I therefore “choose” mining because after a full 2 decades I still do it occasionally for my own purposes? Mining for me has built empires, built ships for null wars, built ships for FW, built my own gank ships and basically funded my means to do other things. I used to play sports, fight in RL and eve and mining where my “downtime” where I wanted to relax and chill and immerse myself into a dangerous world fraught with vile and reprehensible people, friends, frenemies and actual people I knew in RL. So sure I started there but I certainly also branched out. I also get the revenge thing when you were ganked. I got ganked and thought ‘hmm…. I can do this too!!’ Formulated a plan, executed said plan and did it for profit, lols, the horrible death threat mails, the tears and the general fun of destruction all the while selling my victims ships back to them. Most miners become filthy arms merchants u see in the final end game in my opinion. And if they dont they arent trying hard enough.😈 So yes, I believe people can choose to be a miner. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2026, 12:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-the-freedom-of-eve-its-inevitable-downfall/508883/31 "2026-03-28T00:13:56Z")
> [@Eternus8lux8lucis](#): > > the hero, the saviour, the “Neo” of the Matrix. They call me the Heroin of Highsec! 👩🏻‍🏫 ---
**Author:** ![Eternus8lux8lucis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eternus8lux8lucis/32/385152_2.png) [@Eternus8lux8lucis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eternus8lux8lucis)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2026, 12:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-the-freedom-of-eve-its-inevitable-downfall/508883/32 "2026-03-28T00:29:30Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > They call me the Heroin of Highsec! Yet, to be the opiate of the masses simply means that everyone goes on the ‘nod’ whenever you are around. Wouldnt you rather be the adrenaline or dopamine of the masses? Waking people up from the evils of mining, rather than putting them all to sleep with drug induced slumber would appear to be a better metaphor given your background… but hey if you are opium dreams than can you finish the poem “Kubla Khan” for us at least?🤔 Honestly, by your rhetoric Id say opioids are what you would call mining. Putting everyone to sleep, but highly addictive in nature. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2026, 12:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-the-freedom-of-eve-its-inevitable-downfall/508883/33 "2026-03-28T00:30:54Z")
No, miners need to calm down. Uppers are not allowed. ---
**Author:** ![Eternus8lux8lucis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eternus8lux8lucis/32/385152_2.png) [@Eternus8lux8lucis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eternus8lux8lucis)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2026, 12:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-the-freedom-of-eve-its-inevitable-downfall/508883/34 "2026-03-28T00:34:01Z")
So then a Valium or Clonazapam might be a better choice. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2026, 12:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-the-freedom-of-eve-its-inevitable-downfall/508883/35 "2026-03-28T00:47:26Z")
Take your medicine and hush your mouth. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2026, 12:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-the-freedom-of-eve-its-inevitable-downfall/508883/36 "2026-03-28T00:49:36Z")
Is this your main toon and how long have you been playing? I’m not pointing a finger at new players, but timeline does matter as to how you see the game? An interesting thd and good food for thought at least. ---
**Author:** ![Eternus8lux8lucis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eternus8lux8lucis/32/385152_2.png) [@Eternus8lux8lucis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eternus8lux8lucis)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2026, 12:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-the-freedom-of-eve-its-inevitable-downfall/508883/37 "2026-03-28T00:49:43Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Take your medicine and hush your mouth. True to form… ---
**Author:** ![Eternus8lux8lucis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eternus8lux8lucis/32/385152_2.png) [@Eternus8lux8lucis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eternus8lux8lucis)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2026, 12:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-the-freedom-of-eve-its-inevitable-downfall/508883/38 "2026-03-28T00:53:00Z")
This is my main yes but not my oldest character. I left Eve after 1.5 years of playing in 2003 and that break lasted 1.5 years as well. Eternus was that reroll, and is now my highest SP character as well. So Ive played him consistently since his birth as a capsuleer in 2006 and done the most with him. I also chose him as my forum alt for “reasons.” ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2026, 1:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-the-freedom-of-eve-its-inevitable-downfall/508883/39 "2026-03-28T01:03:17Z")
> [@Eternus8lux8lucis](#): > > I also chose him as my forum alt for “reasons.” That doesn’t bother me. So, you have seen the rise and fall of EVE. While you’re older than I, I never waivered from the path, which ever one you chose. I, and I can only speak for myself here, but I believe we had much more freedom when the both of us started as to what path we wanted to choose? CCP seems to lead players onto mining. I haven’t done a new start in a long time now. Is CCP shooting itself in the foot with the seemly less freedom of advertised “freedoms” we see now? This thd will go nowhere as many before it. But thanks for making me think again! 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2026, 2:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-the-freedom-of-eve-its-inevitable-downfall/508883/40 "2026-03-28T02:47:01Z")
> [@Eternus8lux8lucis](#): > > Just because you cannot fathom the reason someone does X, Y or Z doesnt mean they are crazy simply because you have issues with it Like I already said…..I find it highly implausible that _anyone_ sees any advert showing EVE as an epic space adventure and their first thought is…. ‘ Oh my God…yes I must join that and watch a mining laser 8 hours a day !’ ---
**Author:** ![Malak\_Starfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malak_starfire/32/501915_2.png) [@Malak\_Starfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malak_Starfire)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2026, 3:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-the-freedom-of-eve-its-inevitable-downfall/508883/41 "2026-03-28T03:24:45Z")
Yet people have been and are, and in their defense, the trailers make mining seem more exciting than it is. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-the-freedom-of-eve-its-inevitable-downfall/508883.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-the-freedom-of-eve-its-inevitable-downfall/508883.md?page=3)