# Is there a reason I've never seen Legion Armor Logi fits? **URL:** \ **Category:** PvP Ships & Modules\ **Created:** [October 29, 2017, 6:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-a-reason-ive-never-seen-legion-armor-logi-fits/34917 "2017-10-29T06:55:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Oreb\_Wing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/oreb_wing/32/170827_2.png) [@Oreb\_Wing](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Oreb_Wing)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 12:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-a-reason-ive-never-seen-legion-armor-logi-fits/34917/41 "2017-10-30T00:35:48Z")
I remember I used to put a t2 200mm plate on my Comet when I small gang fc’ed. I was usually primaried, being the only comet on field. Either way, it worked so well it caught on I guess. If you can psych the meta, you can create an advantage where there was none. ---
**Author:** ![Saladinae](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saladinae/32/415712_2.png) [@Saladinae](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saladinae)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 12:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-a-reason-ive-never-seen-legion-armor-logi-fits/34917/42 "2017-10-30T00:39:42Z")
You can turn off the Large Anc Rep and the Cap booster and still be cap stable. You only need the cap booster 150’s when the Large Anc Rep is running. Remember that half the time the Large Anc Rep will be unactive while reloading. Remember that in an emergency you can continue using the large anc rep without paste as well and it will still be better than a Medium Armor Rep II. The Cap booster 400’s are only for when ■■■■ hits the fan (if you get neuted out). Thus you can run all 5 armor reps with the cap booster. You can run all 4 regular reps without the cap booster at 30% cap stability. The fit boasts 100k ehp and over 95% resists against non-em damage with reactive hardener (88% resists omni with hardener) and 92% resists against pure-em damage. It tops out at 97% resists against Kinetic (laughs at missile boats). ---
**Author:** ![Wanda\_Fayne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wanda_fayne/32/377654_2.png) [@Wanda\_Fayne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wanda_Fayne)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 1:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-a-reason-ive-never-seen-legion-armor-logi-fits/34917/43 "2017-10-30T01:44:56Z")
Okay I see where you going with that. Pretty solid tanking tbs. If it works then go with it! ---
**Author:** ![Saladinae](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saladinae/32/415712_2.png) [@Saladinae](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saladinae)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 2:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-a-reason-ive-never-seen-legion-armor-logi-fits/34917/44 "2017-10-30T02:14:23Z")
If you’re not worried about neuts you can replace cap booster with sebo + script (eccm vs ecm, target range/scan vs damps), because technically you’re never going to perma run the large anc rep (you get 3 minutes of cap using large rep without cap booster). I haven’t tried it yet but I might supply my guard pilots with a sebo in cargo hold and put a mobile depot in the FC Astarte or Loki for them. It seems my guards always die to massive alpha fleets or ecm balls. ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 2:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-a-reason-ive-never-seen-legion-armor-logi-fits/34917/45 "2017-10-30T02:25:46Z")
> [@Oreb\_Wing](#): > > I think the comparison of what an Oneiros or Scythe can hold versus what 3 cap-chained Guards can hold is so lopsided there is really no comparison. One is brought out with hacs down to even assault frigates, but the others are seen holding their own in a battleship engagement. How do you figure balance into that? Where did I compare them?? I said they belong to the same ship class and made the differences very clear. ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 2:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-a-reason-ive-never-seen-legion-armor-logi-fits/34917/46 "2017-10-30T02:37:33Z")
> [@Oreb\_Wing](#): > > Why not add another specialization to Oneiros and Scythe at least? Maybe you should fly logi for a bit yourself and make your own fits. The Oneiros / Exequror and scimitar / scythe are fine as they are. Your comparison is lopsided. > [@Saladinae](#): > > Best buff for scythe and onerios would be a special cargo bay for cap boosters I should send you a message ingame with my logi fits? ---
**Author:** ![Oreb\_Wing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/oreb_wing/32/170827_2.png) [@Oreb\_Wing](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Oreb_Wing)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 4:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-a-reason-ive-never-seen-legion-armor-logi-fits/34917/47 "2017-10-30T04:14:36Z")
I was the one comparing them, by the way I’ve seen them used and how often. You made the distinction yourself about small gang vs fleet. Whatever your disagreements, their fitting is clearly lopsided, if anything is, allowing them so much versatility and extra repair power with undersized repairers or cap transfers. The only one I didn’t have much experience flying is a basi. Your welcome to post those oneiros fleet fits here. Aside from their resist profiles, I don’t see them being used in place of guards in large fights. I think you just got used to the niche roles they fell into and can’t see the argument being made about how the cap chains dominate in fleet way beyond the point where the others hit a ceiling in that regard. Ships being somewhat predictable in the meta is unfortunate. Repair drones are set to assist petty often or left on another predesignated friendly and there they stay, or get left behind. Not too many pilots have t2 repair drones. ---
**Author:** ![Saladinae](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saladinae/32/415712_2.png) [@Saladinae](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saladinae)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 6:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-a-reason-ive-never-seen-legion-armor-logi-fits/34917/48 "2017-10-30T06:58:58Z")
> [@elitatwo](#): > > I should send you a message ingame with my logi fits? Unless you found a magical way to increase cargo space for cap boosters, don’t bother. ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-a-reason-ive-never-seen-legion-armor-logi-fits/34917/49 "2017-10-30T07:05:33Z")
I don’t give out my fits for free, after spending many months tweaking and testing them. If you want them, my wallet says hi. > [@Oreb\_Wing](#): > > comparing them, by the way I’ve seen them used and how often There is a huge difference in perception here. And you should not always believe everything you hear. “Seeing them being used” is not a good place to make assumptions of. As I said, the Oneiros / Exequror are suitable for small gangs of the size 3-6 pilots. Anything bigger and you want the cap chain ones. Not because of the higher amount of reps but the chaos you are about to be in. If you run into a bigger gangs than yours, you won’t be able to put reps on anyone in dire need in time, so your cap chain buddies will have an easier time spreading their reps. I believe the listed fit is flawed. You don’t want to fly an Oneiros with more than 6 pilots. You can look at the values I collected and listed here: > [@Subcapital logistic](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/subcapital-logistic/18749): > > Here are some numbers for avid logistic pilots. Those numbers are the maximum values you can squeeze out of logistic ships and the t1 cruisers and frigates. What does 1 or 2 mean? it means meta or t2 What does 4x1 or 3x2 mean? In a fleet setup you go for maximum effect you fit 3x rep and 2x cap on the t1 ones and 4 reps and 2x cap for the t2 cruisers. all values are in HP or capacitor per second but I don’t know how much dps you are tanking or repping. all values are without heat bec… ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-a-reason-ive-never-seen-legion-armor-logi-fits/34917/50 "2017-10-30T07:07:22Z")
> [@Saladinae](#): > > Unless you found a magical way to increase cargo space for cap boosters What is your deal with cap boosters? My Oneiros / Exequror and even my solo-Guardian fits do not require any. ---
**Author:** ![Saladinae](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saladinae/32/415712_2.png) [@Saladinae](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saladinae)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-a-reason-ive-never-seen-legion-armor-logi-fits/34917/51 "2017-10-30T07:09:43Z")
There’s only two ways you can accomplish this. 1: You retained your resist rigs and fit all medium reppers. 2: You dropped your resist rigs and used Repair Augmentor Rigs In case number 1 you’d get the same performance out of an exequror with a little less tank. In case number 2 you’ll get blapped. I deploy 4 of these Oneiros at a time against small/medium fleets with ECM. They have 56k ehp (with links) and 89% resists and get 3000 hp/s and 86 sensor strength. When the large anc rep is running with paste it gets 4200 hp/s I consider these to be very effective and very viable for PvP. I do not, however see how you can fit an Onerios for medium sized fleet combat in any other way that does not involve cap boosters. [Oneiros, Valhalla Necromancer] Armor Explosive Hardener II 800mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates Armor EM Hardener II Reactive Armor Hardener Armor Explosive Hardener II 10MN Afterburner II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800 Sensor Booster II, ECCM Script Sensor Booster II, ECCM Script Large Ancillary Remote Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste Large Remote Armor Repairer II Large Remote Armor Repairer II Large Remote Armor Repairer II Medium Anti-Thermal Pump II Medium Anti-Thermal Pump II Medium Armor Maintenance Bot II x5 Nanite Repair Paste x320 Navy Cap Booster 800 x24 ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-a-reason-ive-never-seen-legion-armor-logi-fits/34917/52 "2017-10-30T07:14:56Z")
> [@Saladinae](#): > > same performance out of an exequror Look at my values and tell me again how the Exequror with 3x medium reps and the Oneiros with 4x large reps do about the same? I would argue the Oneiros reps twice as much as an Exequror. ---
**Author:** ![Saladinae](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saladinae/32/415712_2.png) [@Saladinae](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saladinae)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-a-reason-ive-never-seen-legion-armor-logi-fits/34917/53 "2017-10-30T07:16:15Z")
I can’t see your fits you haven’t posted them. There’s no way you’re running 4 large reps on an onerios without a cap booster unless you git repair augmentor rigs at the expense of shredding your resists. ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-a-reason-ive-never-seen-legion-armor-logi-fits/34917/54 "2017-10-30T07:19:01Z")
> [@Saladinae](#): > > fit an Onerios for medium sized fleet combat And I never made such a claim. I said anything above a gang size of 6 should be using Guardians / Basilisks. Why some of you want to make the Oneiros a fleet boat escapes me. ---
**Author:** ![Saladinae](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saladinae/32/415712_2.png) [@Saladinae](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saladinae)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-a-reason-ive-never-seen-legion-armor-logi-fits/34917/55 "2017-10-30T07:28:58Z")
The fitting I provided above is a viable medium fleet boat. ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-a-reason-ive-never-seen-legion-armor-logi-fits/34917/56 "2017-10-30T07:34:15Z")
Sounds interesting but what is your definition of “medium size”? If you ask a goon member, she will say 800 people is “medium size” and my definition of “medium size” is below 15. In both cases you cannot switch your reps fast enough to attend to all of your gang mates. ---
**Author:** ![Saladinae](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saladinae/32/415712_2.png) [@Saladinae](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saladinae)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-a-reason-ive-never-seen-legion-armor-logi-fits/34917/57 "2017-10-30T07:46:11Z")
Seeing that I’m fielding 4 of these at a time against medium ecm fleets, around 25-30. I do have one cap stable oneiros fitting with 800mm bling plate and a variation using a 1600mm bling plate, but I’ve never purchased/fitted/field them before, so I don’t know how they would actually perform. They also require so much bling I’d rather just have a Guardian. That being said I’ll post this old and unused fit: First the 800mm plate, it’s cap stable assuming you reload the large anc rep when it runs out of paste:. It has 65kehp and 90% resists with armor links, moves 1km/s and puts out 4khp/s with anc rep (4700 heated), 2800 without anc rep (3100 heated). It has the added bonus of being immune to neuts. [Oneiros Bling 800m] Armor Explosive Hardener II Imperial Navy 800mm Steel Plates Armor EM Hardener II Reactive Armor Hardener Armor Explosive Hardener II Gistum A-Type 10MN Afterburner Domination Medium Cap Battery Domination Medium Cap Battery Domination Medium Cap Battery Large Ancillary Remote Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste Large Remote Armor Repairer II Large Remote Armor Repairer II Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repairer Medium Anti-Thermal Pump II Medium Anti-Thermal Pump II Medium Armor Maintenance Bot II x5 Nanite Repair Paste x320 * * * The second fit is 1600m bling plate, it trades an anti-thermal pump for an ancillary rig, giving it 97k ehp and 88% resists [Oneiros, 1600mm bling] Armor Explosive Hardener II Imperial Navy 1600mm Steel Plates Armor EM Hardener II Reactive Armor Hardener Armor Explosive Hardener II Gistum A-Type 10MN Afterburner Domination Medium Cap Battery Domination Medium Cap Battery Cap Recharger II Large Ancillary Remote Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste Large Remote Armor Repairer II Large Remote Armor Repairer II Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repairer Medium Anti-Thermal Pump II Medium Ancillary Current Router II Medium Armor Maintenance Bot II x5 Nanite Repair Paste x320 I really don’t know I would field these bling boats over a guardian which equalizes this onerios with far less bling unless I really wanted the extra 250m/s speed, which goes to Oreb’s main point, the Oneiros should be viable (with a non-bling fit) for large scale PvP. The trade off could very simply be 33% extra speed (oneiros, as in above bling fit)) vs 25% extra repping power (guardian, as in above guard fit). ---
**Author:** ![Agondray](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/agondray/32/414989_2.png) [@Agondray](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Agondray)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 9:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-a-reason-ive-never-seen-legion-armor-logi-fits/34917/58 "2017-10-30T09:14:03Z")
I used to have a legion logi for my VG fleet before changes, it could self rep a hole site while repping someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Gian\_Bal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gian_bal/32/397310_2.png) [@Gian\_Bal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gian_Bal)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 11:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-a-reason-ive-never-seen-legion-armor-logi-fits/34917/59 "2017-10-30T11:13:36Z")
KAll this talk of “yeah but oneiros because muh cap stability” Yes its cap stable, but even a true stable with with no cap injectors usually get ■■■■■■ by neuts. Guardians are muh better for fleets because an organised guardian wing is very hard to neut out and if you take something like RnK’s kaboose fit guardian it gets like 88% average resists with heated hardeners with around 125k ehp total with tiny sig. Oneiros is great in smaller engagement but it simply is inferior to a group of guardians in big engagements. Also, with the Kaboose fit you have like 2 cap guardians with 6 large xfers. They send 2 to each other and 2 to each rep guardian, meaning 2 cap/4 rep. The rep guardians have 5 large reps and a large cap xfer so it can rep alot more than the oneiros whilst also allowing it to keep a friendly capped up, it allows you to send an extra xfer to a guard under neut pressure, or a friendly bhaalgorn that is neuting enemy logi, or a friendly dps ship to keep his hardeners online whilst it gets primaried etc. Simply put th guardian is just a much superior ship. Past 6 logi the oneiros is inferior to the guardian. Simple. ---
**Author:** ![Saladinae](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saladinae/32/415712_2.png) [@Saladinae](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saladinae)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 11:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-a-reason-ive-never-seen-legion-armor-logi-fits/34917/60 "2017-10-30T11:41:12Z")
No one in this thread has advocated for using Oneiros in large scale PvP. All you did was reaffirm everything we already stated in this thread. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-a-reason-ive-never-seen-legion-armor-logi-fits/34917.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-a-reason-ive-never-seen-legion-armor-logi-fits/34917.md?page=4)