# Is there any plans to close the loop hole that is ganking? **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [February 21, 2018, 1:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-any-plans-to-close-the-loop-hole-that-is-ganking/58769 "2018-02-21T13:58:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Hiasa\_Kite](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hiasa_kite/32/11603_2.png) [@Hiasa\_Kite](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hiasa_Kite)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 6:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-any-plans-to-close-the-loop-hole-that-is-ganking/58769/143 "2018-02-23T06:02:51Z")
You’ll also need to know the highest likely dps gankers might throw at you, including highest likely alpha. The game should tell you that too. Or, considering you’ve played months to earn billions of ISK in the first place, you could spend a few minutes reading up on a few basic guides. ---
**Author:** ![Hiasa\_Kite](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hiasa_kite/32/11603_2.png) [@Hiasa\_Kite](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hiasa_Kite)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 6:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-any-plans-to-close-the-loop-hole-that-is-ganking/58769/144 "2018-02-23T06:10:30Z")
> [@Penance\_Toralen](#): > > So what happens when there too much miner killing - well same, there was a nerf. Because there is obviously an in-balance. Why aren’t the miners flying procurers? You know, the inexpensive barge that boasts in excess of 100,000 EHP while enjoying comparible yield to the other barges? Thats not imbalance, that’s simply players refusing to use the tools they already have. > [@Penance\_Toralen](#): > > Gankers whined that they could not WTFPWNDSOLOBBQ a tech2 hull with a native resists. CCP listened and nerfed the yield of the mack by 25%. Actually, they nerfed it because it was a disproportionately popular choice amongst the exhumers. Apparently players valued large ore holds quite abut more than any other stat, so they reigned in a bit. If gankers were whining, wouldn’t we see a reduction in tank, rather than yield? ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 6:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-any-plans-to-close-the-loop-hole-that-is-ganking/58769/145 "2018-02-23T06:25:15Z")
> [@Hiasa\_Kite](#): > > Why aren’t the miners flying procurers? You know, the inexpensive barge that boasts in excess of 100,000 EHP while enjoying comparible yield to the other barges? > > Thats not imbalance, that’s simply players refusing to use the tools they already have. This is a no brainer. You can fit a procurer with a considerable tank. Granted you sacrifice yield, but you can’t eat your cake and have it. Alternatively you can for pure yield and just expect to die periodically and factor that into your calculations. > [@Hiasa\_Kite](#): > > Actually, they nerfed it because it was a disproportionately popular choice amongst the exhumers. Apparently players valued large ore holds quite abut more than any other stat, so they reigned in a bit. Probably because everyone preferred to semi-AFK mine. > [@Hiasa\_Kite](#): > > If gankers were whining, wouldn’t we see a reduction in tank, rather than yield? Stop using logic please. ---
**Author:** ![Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mayhaw_morgan/32/412682_2.png) [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mayhaw_Morgan)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 7:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-any-plans-to-close-the-loop-hole-that-is-ganking/58769/146 "2018-02-23T07:38:54Z")
> [@Sitting\_Bull\_Lakota](#): > > Anti-tanked freighter > [@Sitting\_Bull\_Lakota](#): > > miners So, the first thing is that “miners” don’t fly freighters. You can’t mine in a freighter. > [@Sitting\_Bull\_Lakota](#): > > Years of whining from miners flying antitanked hulks leads to a rebalance of barges and the introduction of dedicated ore holds. The second thing is, well, two things: 1. If miners were whining for years, then its on you to prove their whining was the catalyst for the changes to barges, since, as you say, CCP ignored them for years. B. Mining barges and exhumers really kind of needed a rebalance, lots of things did, and lots of things got reworked/rebalanced. The Condor needed a second iteration and got it, but who was whining about it? And, if no one was whining about it, maybe nobody was whining about barges and exhumers either. > [@Sitting\_Bull\_Lakota](#): > > the orca Thirdly, the Orca is not a freighter. Are you complaining about complaints about mining ships or are you complaining about complaints about freighters? > [@Sitting\_Bull\_Lakota](#): > > Are we sure it’s the suicide gank community that needs to be reigned in here? Don’t act like you are the hardest of the hard. You cried and complained when AGs started killing freighter wrecks and what did good ‘ole CCP do FOR YOU? They even buffed your suicide ganking ships’ hull HP for you, because guess what kind of ships almost never fit a damage control. And did you even say “Thank you.”? I’m betting you did. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 8:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-any-plans-to-close-the-loop-hole-that-is-ganking/58769/147 "2018-02-23T08:32:04Z")
so youre saying people who get into an activity they dont understand are not to blame for failing at it so if you try to build your own nuke and die of radiation poisoning then its not your fault is that what you are saying its not your fault for poisoning yourself with radiation and we should blame the schools for not teaching kids how to build nukes ---
**Author:** ![Agondray](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/agondray/32/414989_2.png) [@Agondray](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Agondray)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 8:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-any-plans-to-close-the-loop-hole-that-is-ganking/58769/148 "2018-02-23T08:52:47Z")
there are loop holes in the sec status that allow you to be red and not have navies chase you and now theres a new thing where you can go gcc, get popped once and be back out waiting to insta warp to a new target. ---
**Author:** ![Trash\_Burner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/trash_burner/32/56240_2.png) [@Trash\_Burner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Trash_Burner)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 8:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-any-plans-to-close-the-loop-hole-that-is-ganking/58769/149 "2018-02-23T08:54:44Z")
> [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > so youre saying people who get into an activity they dont understand are not to blame for failing at it > > so if you try to build your own nuke and die of radiation poisoning then its not your fault > > is that what you are saying > > its not your fault for poisoning yourself with radiation and we should blame the schools for not teaching kids how to build nukes Don’t be dense. Nobody understands everything about a game before they begin to play it, nor should they be expected to. Something as important as the differences in concord reaction times should definitely be explained to the player considering the potential for devastating losses. You would have to be a moron to think otherwise. Only suicide gankers themselves typically observe this mechanic. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 8:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-any-plans-to-close-the-loop-hole-that-is-ganking/58769/151 "2018-02-23T08:59:15Z")
**Catalyst:** Swap 1 Turret High to a Launcher High, similar to Thrasher. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 9:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-any-plans-to-close-the-loop-hole-that-is-ganking/58769/152 "2018-02-23T09:00:01Z")
> [@Trash\_Burner](#): > > You would have to be a moron to think otherwise. Only suicide gankers themselves typically observe this mechanic. nope youd have to be a moron to think that and a bitter cvarebear who gets ganked because they fail to bother to protect themselves and blame ccp because they suck at games ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 9:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-any-plans-to-close-the-loop-hole-that-is-ganking/58769/153 "2018-02-23T09:24:52Z")
Security status is far too easy to recover when compared with factional standings. The loss of security status should be much more more proportional to the crime. Presently CONCORD seem to operate a very lenient justice program for habitual, repeat offenders. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 9:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-any-plans-to-close-the-loop-hole-that-is-ganking/58769/154 "2018-02-23T09:38:31Z")
> [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Security status is far too easy to recover when compared with factional standings Gankers dont care about security status. Faction police are a joke, ---
**Author:** ![Penance\_Toralen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/penance_toralen/32/244089_2.png) [@Penance\_Toralen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Penance_Toralen)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 10:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-any-plans-to-close-the-loop-hole-that-is-ganking/58769/155 "2018-02-23T10:42:51Z")
> [@Hiasa\_Kite](#): > > Why aren’t the miners flying procurers? You know, the inexpensive barge that boasts in excess of 100,000 EHP while enjoying comparible yield to the other barges? another history required I see. The tiericde of mining barges did not occur until after 5 hulkageddons and 3 ice Interdiction. which occurred mid-2012. just more evidence of a narrow/obsessive attack on miners to the exclusion of other ships/activity. mining barges when originally released had a single mid-slot and were expected to mount shield defence. pause and think about that. why? hanlon’s razor. neither the community or CCP considered that it be the focus of a aggression or mining was a setup to provide low-hanging fruit in a pvp environment. > [@Hiasa\_Kite](#): > > If gankers were whining, wouldn’t we see a reduction in tank, rather than yield? Miners for years pointed out that the hulk was difficult to tank. Even the organiser of hulkageddon once suggest it need more grid. which of course never happened. and just how many times has player feedback been ignored and eventually proven correct. the reduction of yield was provide an incentive for miners to switch over to covetor/hulk which are the weakest in defence. so gankers got what that they whined for - in a roundabout way. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 10:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-any-plans-to-close-the-loop-hole-that-is-ganking/58769/156 "2018-02-23T10:48:29Z")
Dude. You are the one talking about source. If you are not able to understand my example, feel free to ask questions about it. My experience is a correct source for examples. Just don’t affirm an example needs a specific source to be correct. If you want to find terms that describe my example, I think “cost” or “benefit” would be the correct one. Feel free to search how the cost of executing a service prevents executer from being paid less than said cost, and how the benefit from buying a service prevents the buyer from paying more than said benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Hiasa\_Kite](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hiasa_kite/32/11603_2.png) [@Hiasa\_Kite](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hiasa_Kite)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 11:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-any-plans-to-close-the-loop-hole-that-is-ganking/58769/157 "2018-02-23T11:45:06Z")
I’m well aware of the buffs that occurred in 2012 and I for one agree that buffs, particularly in terms if tank were warranted. You’d have a point if that were still the case in 2018, but we do have the procurers that boasts over 100kEHP today. There’s a lot of complaint from carebears that they can’t defend themselves with a strong tank but they already have that option - they’re just not using it. As to the note on macks; maybe CCP were telling the truth and the mack was disproportionately popular compared to other mining ships. It’s interesting you think gankers have CCP’s ear considering the rather significant nerfs suicide ganking and general HiSec aggression have suffered over the last few years. ---
**Author:** ![Agondray](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/agondray/32/414989_2.png) [@Agondray](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Agondray)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 1:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-any-plans-to-close-the-loop-hole-that-is-ganking/58769/158 "2018-02-23T13:53:18Z")
oh they do in a way, CSM minutes have noted many times of how much CCP wants more destruction. Also mining in a proc gives some of the ganker groups what they want, and even than they will kill a tanked proc just to prove a point and use any ship to do it, afterall when its isk from someone else paying you to kill miners and others, why not? I knew of miners that give a portion of their isk to ganking groups to target other miners ---
**Author:** ![Hiasa\_Kite](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hiasa_kite/32/11603_2.png) [@Hiasa\_Kite](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hiasa_Kite)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 5:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-any-plans-to-close-the-loop-hole-that-is-ganking/58769/159 "2018-02-23T17:39:35Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > You are the one talking about source. Because you’re not providing one. You cannot be your own source, you need to reference a 3rd party. I’m not even fussy about the quality, I just want something, _anything_ that shows me you haven’t just made this up. Just about anyone blogging about what causes the price of a product/service to change is fine. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > If you are not able to understand my example, feel free to ask questions about it. I understand it just fine. In it, you can’t offer more than 1ISK per hour because you’re limited by what you’re earning. You say this is proof of a third factor. I say your income is limited by _a lack of demand_. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 5:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-any-plans-to-close-the-loop-hole-that-is-ganking/58769/160 "2018-02-23T17:42:58Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Gankers dont care about security status. > > Faction police are a joke, Go -5 and show us. I bet you have once again no idea what you are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Hiasa\_Kite](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hiasa_kite/32/11603_2.png) [@Hiasa\_Kite](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hiasa_Kite)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-any-plans-to-close-the-loop-hole-that-is-ganking/58769/161 "2018-02-23T17:48:57Z")
> [@Agondray](#): > > they do in a way, CSM minutes have noted many times of how much CCP wants more destruction. Interesting. Considering they’ve done more to stymie sources of destruction over the last few years they seem to be going about it in a very peculiar way. > [@Agondray](#): > > Also mining in a proc gives some of the ganker groups what they want, I believe you’re referencing James 315 and friends. Seeing as their goal is to give miners a choice about how they earn their income, seeing people choosing to fit for tank over yield would be a win for them. > [@Agondray](#): > > and even than they will kill a tanked proc just to prove a point and use any ship to do it, They could, but only if the pilot is drawing attention to himself by talking smack in local, for example. Seldom does a procurer fall and I’ve never seen a properly fit procurer appear on zkill. > [@Agondray](#): > > I knew of miners that give a portion of their isk to ganking groups to target other miners. Isn’t that a good thing? Competition creating emergent behaviour and content for other players an’ all. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 6:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-any-plans-to-close-the-loop-hole-that-is-ganking/58769/162 "2018-02-23T18:35:33Z")
> [@Agondray](#): > > I knew of miners that give a portion of their isk to ganking groups to target other miners Eve Online, where cutthroat business practices are taken seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 12:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-any-plans-to-close-the-loop-hole-that-is-ganking/58769/163 "2018-02-24T00:43:39Z")
I want to see the killmail that caused this thread ☠ [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-any-plans-to-close-the-loop-hole-that-is-ganking/58769.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/is-there-any-plans-to-close-the-loop-hole-that-is-ganking/58769.md?page=9)