# ISD Appreciation - On Behalf of the Community, Thank You! **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 11, 2020, 8:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isd-appreciation-on-behalf-of-the-community-thank-you/240222 "2020-05-11T08:12:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![z0ra\_Berg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/z0ra_berg/32/187042_2.png) [@z0ra\_Berg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/z0ra_Berg)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 2:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isd-appreciation-on-behalf-of-the-community-thank-you/240222/89 "2020-05-11T14:41:16Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > Totally fair, I wish others would take the time to do the same. Why? Even a whopping 80% of US-Americans correctly believes that political correctness is a problem. It’s literally a concept used by the worst people in history, who without even a shadow of a doubt did not care about people using nice language. I absolutely hope absolutely no sane person ever takes the time to be politically correct. Think about it, it means that **you word your sentences IN FEAR (of offending someone)**. You saying such a dumb thing is baffling me. ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 2:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isd-appreciation-on-behalf-of-the-community-thank-you/240222/90 "2020-05-11T14:44:21Z")
I suspect he was referring more to the “ruffle feathers” than to the PC comment… ---
**Author:** ![z0ra\_Berg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/z0ra_berg/32/187042_2.png) [@z0ra\_Berg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/z0ra_Berg)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 2:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isd-appreciation-on-behalf-of-the-community-thank-you/240222/91 "2020-05-11T14:46:05Z")
That’s meaningless, because it’s not obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Forum\_Posting\_Alt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/forum_posting_alt/32/254303_2.png) [@Forum\_Posting\_Alt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Forum_Posting_Alt)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 3:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isd-appreciation-on-behalf-of-the-community-thank-you/240222/92 "2020-05-11T15:03:35Z")
> [@z0ra\_Berg](#): > > Even a whopping 80% of US-Americans correctly believes that political correctness is a problem. Understanding what it means, how it is used/abused would help - but then, according to your statiistics, 80% of US-Americans obvious can’t use google 🙂 Edit: even dear old wikipedia does a half decent job, if you have the patience to read: [Political correctness - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness) ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 5:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isd-appreciation-on-behalf-of-the-community-thank-you/240222/94 "2020-05-11T17:20:12Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > On the old forum a lot of these abusive posters would have received a 24h ban, and if they continued to offend they’d get a longer one. I’m not sure this is true. Things feel mellow to me now compared to before. Lot’s of people don’t like the way @Scoots_Choco posts. He’s direct and concise. But does anyone remember our old friend Kaarous Aldurald? He was articulate in his destruction like an executioner dragging out a kill to demonstrate just how good he is at it. And he just had posts deleted. The old forums, like the old game, was much more HTFU or GTFO as i remember. On the topic at hand; ISD have always allowed ‘edge cases’ and that goes back to before i was a frequenter of the forums with the venerable ISD Ezwal at the helm. ‘Edge cases’ is in fact a term he used a lot. And I’m glad that they do because it allows us freedom and leads to consequences that makes eve so great. Like a child learning that the kettle is hot, someone making a bad post gets burned and learns a lesson. That’s not a bad thing to me. It’s also more common that the original poster of an idea become hostile to criticism than the other way round. Like the thread that inspired this one. And if we just silence them immediately it stops the idea dead in it’s tracks instead of allowing any kind of back and forth, any growth or refinement of the idea. For example, in the following thread I’m callled ‘aggressive’, ‘troll-toxic’, I’m insulting etc but everyone in that thread is working towards a better game depite the ‘mud flinging’ and by the end of it I’d say it was productive thread. > [@\[Modified\] Please make (empty) wrecks in Abyssal space destroyable](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/modified-please-make-empty-wrecks-in-abyssal-space-destroyable/210883): > > Hey there, I’d like to discuss the prospect of finding a way, or best case scenario implement in a future patch, to deal with empty wrecks in abyssal space. As you may know, filaments open an instanced space with 3 rooms you need to clear in under 20 minutes, otherwise you lose your ship and pod. One particular issue that has nothing to do with player skill, or ship fitting, are empty wrecks. Those pesky little thing will put a dent in your income that you don’t really need because a MTU will… If we just closed the thread or banned me for calling him greedy or people for calling me a troll, i think that thread and the forums in general would be lesser for it. Regarding ‘eve isn’t for you’ posts. They are mostly correct. The vast majority of these posts are directed at people looking for something that fundamentally isn’t eve. They want complete ganking removed, to have a structure without wardecs, or their own deadspace pocket to play alone in. If i go to the WoW forums and demand they introduce non-consensual pvp so i can gank other players and take their stuff, the regulars would be perfectly justified by replying: ‘eve is that way----\>’ Another reason for allowing edge cases is the way people dance on the line of what’s acceptable. You can personally attack someone or insult their idea without spelling out an actual attack. You can also goad someone like this into making a personal attack with the intent of getting them banned. And for that reason I’m glad ISD’s get to use their judgement rather than a hard and fast rule of what’s ok and what’s not ok. When someone responds in kind to Scoots, i don’t think they deserve a ban. And i think the ISD’s would think scoots is enough of a big boy to take it. If it gets out of hand the ISD’s can then step in as they see fit. And that brings me to my ultimate point i guess. I think since it’s the ISD’s that are responsible for cleaning up our crap, it’s up to them (and CCP) to set the tone of the forums. If they said they were sick and tired of having to constantly moderate, clean up and that they wanted to make it more PC (for lack of a better term) or they thought the tone of the forums was detrimental to the experience as a whole, then they can make that happen and I’d of course follow suit. But if they are happy how things are, happy with how the forums reflect the nature of the game, why change it? Contrary to some, i think we do more good than harm here. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 5:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isd-appreciation-on-behalf-of-the-community-thank-you/240222/95 "2020-05-11T17:25:03Z")
> [@Rekindle](#): > > It was not appropriate to spam the forums like that but the moderation on this forum is a total joke both. You could just good riddance yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 5:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isd-appreciation-on-behalf-of-the-community-thank-you/240222/96 "2020-05-11T17:27:36Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > However the poster got hard hounded by the usual suspects and I don’t blame him for getting pissed. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > So yeah, I can understand why the OP went on a rage posting rampage. I think there’s plenty of blame to go around on everybody for that. You’re wrong … as usual. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 5:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isd-appreciation-on-behalf-of-the-community-thank-you/240222/97 "2020-05-11T17:29:00Z")
> [@Rekindle](#): > > Consistiently enforce your own guidelines and start banning the trolls who we can all call by name. Name them. > [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > Is that you @Nicolai_Serkanner 😛 😃 … it really isn’t me. You could call me a “trendsetter”. > [@ISD\_Thalack\_Dalhar](#): > > While we all appreciate a good discussion, and we value your feedback (even though we likely can’t/won’t go into details publicly), I would like to ask everybody that this doesn’t turn into a heated debate… Too late … thanks to the usual suspects DMC and rekindle. Kell isn’t worth mentioning. ---
**Author:** ![Jerry\_Falcone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jerry_falcone/32/167073_2.png) [@Jerry\_Falcone](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jerry_Falcone)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 6:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isd-appreciation-on-behalf-of-the-community-thank-you/240222/99 "2020-05-11T18:05:42Z")
Just popping in, probably should with my main, but oh well. ISD’s thanks for all that you do. There should be an ISD appreciation week, since this is also national police appreciation week. ---
**Author:** ![Forum\_Posting\_Alt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/forum_posting_alt/32/254303_2.png) [@Forum\_Posting\_Alt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Forum_Posting_Alt)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 6:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isd-appreciation-on-behalf-of-the-community-thank-you/240222/100 "2020-05-11T18:08:41Z")
Ah, Nicolai Serkanner… now there’s a case for perma-ban if there ever was one… Then his alts for a month or three, although forum would probably be dead then… (that’s not a compliment) ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 6:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isd-appreciation-on-behalf-of-the-community-thank-you/240222/101 "2020-05-11T18:13:34Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Or would you have just learned to get your point across in the future without calling him names? I don’t think calling someone lazy, greedy or entitled is calling someone names. I think it’s a description of behaviour. That’s the problem with defining personal attacks. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > but imagine if you knew you would be banned for calling him names, would you have still been able to get your point across? I don’t think it would get the point across as effectively no. When someone is told they are being aggressive and to calm down, it’s not a personal attack. But it gets a point across that they should perhaps take a step back and think about what they are doing. Same with lazy, entitled, greedy etc > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > So? Why does that mean a space simulation sandbox is not for them? Because they want different things to you? You mean pvp sandbox right? ---
**Author:** ![Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jayce_fitzpatrick/32/383289_2.png) [@Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jayce_Fitzpatrick)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 6:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isd-appreciation-on-behalf-of-the-community-thank-you/240222/102 "2020-05-11T18:16:37Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > a space simulation sandbox With how the space physics work, I’m sure you mean submarine simulation sandbox. ---
**Author:** ![Forum\_Posting\_Alt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/forum_posting_alt/32/254303_2.png) [@Forum\_Posting\_Alt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Forum_Posting_Alt)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 6:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isd-appreciation-on-behalf-of-the-community-thank-you/240222/104 "2020-05-11T18:25:40Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > No, I don’t, since that’s not what EVE is. PvP is a part of EVE but it’s not a game built around simulating PvP… at the core EVE is space trading simulator… > > If you want a PvP sandbox, EVE isn’t for you. Absolutely accurate, yet utterly misunderstood, despite it being bloody obvious… ---
**Author:** ![Foggy\_Bernstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/foggy_bernstein/32/407887_2.png) [@Foggy\_Bernstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Foggy_Bernstein)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 6:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isd-appreciation-on-behalf-of-the-community-thank-you/240222/105 "2020-05-11T18:28:43Z")
A bunch of forum dickwads praising the ISD? I guess that’s one way of banking ISD looking the other way in future dork posts. ---
**Author:** ![Forum\_Posting\_Alt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/forum_posting_alt/32/254303_2.png) [@Forum\_Posting\_Alt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Forum_Posting_Alt)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 6:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isd-appreciation-on-behalf-of-the-community-thank-you/240222/106 "2020-05-11T18:30:34Z")
It got derailed into - less than complimentary observations about ISD, then derailed again and again, and is currently ‘what is EVE’ 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 6:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isd-appreciation-on-behalf-of-the-community-thank-you/240222/107 "2020-05-11T18:31:00Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Sure, which is why I said it’s a pretty waek example because it’s borderline. Well exactly. Isn’t that the bit we’re trying to figure out? Where the line is/should be? There are plenty people that thought my conduct in that thread was unacceptable. But what makes them wrong and you/me right? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Then you need to work on that. But you see i don’t. Calling someone out for their behaviour is an effective communication and learning tool. And i mean that both ways. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > In most cases that won’t actually calm anyone down, and in the example, you gave the OP was calm. They felt that the mechanics for looting abyssals needed adjustment and gave their reasons. I was the one who was called aggressive though. And pointing out that someone is being a bit of a dick does work in my experience. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > No, I don’t, since that’s not what EVE is. PvP is a part of EVE but it’s not a game built around simulating PvP. The essential core concept is fulltime pvp in a sandbox environment. Surely that’s another way of saying ‘built around pvp’. ---
**Author:** ![Mortlake](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mortlake/32/510240_2.png) [@Mortlake](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mortlake)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 6:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isd-appreciation-on-behalf-of-the-community-thank-you/240222/108 "2020-05-11T18:32:37Z")
You’ve got to admit though… Holey certainly livened things up a bit around here. I do miss him. ---
**Author:** ![Forum\_Posting\_Alt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/forum_posting_alt/32/254303_2.png) [@Forum\_Posting\_Alt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Forum_Posting_Alt)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 6:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isd-appreciation-on-behalf-of-the-community-thank-you/240222/109 "2020-05-11T18:33:41Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > > > No, I don’t, since that’s not what EVE is. PvP is a part of EVE but it’s not a game built around simulating PvP. > > The essential core concept is fulltime pvp in a sandbox environment. > > Surely that’s another way of saying ‘built around pvp’. Other way around, Kell is right - its a space empire/trading game, with pvp (which is largely meaningless) - don’t fool yourself with some dodgy nullsec bloc line-member reasoning… ---
**Author:** ![Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/archer_en_tilavine/32/461718_2.png) [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Archer_en_Tilavine)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 7:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isd-appreciation-on-behalf-of-the-community-thank-you/240222/111 "2020-05-11T19:02:10Z")
🔴 I’d like to remind everyone this thread is on _ **ISD Appreciation / Ways CCP Could Further Empower ISD** _ > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > discussing moderation which is against the Forum rules As usual, you raise an excellent point which I forgot to address at the end of my original post: When I wrote this post, I did so knowing I might be breaking that rule, so I tried to revise it as best I could to make sure I didn’t do so by too wide of a margin. Ultimately, I’m thinking this situation is one of those “exceptions are made for exceptional circumstances” things where right now there are an insane number of elephants in the room that it simply cannot NOT be discussed by the community as a whole. I’d like to think there is no way in hell CCP isn’t going to re-evaluate things after this incident in conjunction with our feedback on ISD manpower, and enforcement aggression/powers. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s never gonna happen. I’ve had it confirmed by members of the community team that calling someone “retard” can be classed as “smack talk”. When that’s the attitude there’s no chance of the forums getting cleaned up to any reasonable degree. Sure, I don’t think anyone here with a spine wants that to happen that bans happen because one player calls another a poopiehead. I think it’s more along the lines of whether insults-to-constructiveness ratio is unacceptably high, or if you are exceptionally offensive/shitposting so as to merit a flag that could increment toward a ban (“yellow card” 🟨) , or an outright ban if it really is THAT bad (🔴) . > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > On the old forum a lot of these abusive posters would have received a 24h ban, and if they continued to offend they’d get a longer one. That actually prevented many people from misbehaving in the first place. 👆 this is what we need more of. We all know on a name-and-face basis who needs to be banned, but current rules aren’t permitting this to happen. So without naming names, this discussion is on community feedback on CCP revision forum/ISD policies. 🔴 I’d like to remind everyone this thread is on _ **ISD Appreciation / Ways CCP Could Further Empower ISD** _ ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2020, 7:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isd-appreciation-on-behalf-of-the-community-thank-you/240222/112 "2020-05-11T19:04:03Z")
> [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](#): > > We all know on a name-and-face basis who needs to be banned, but current rules aren’t permitting this to happen. So without naming names, this discussion is on **community feedback on CCP revision forum/ISD policies.** And there’s the rub. “I want ISDs to change policies so we can ban people who call me out on my bad ideas, but I can’t do that so I’m going to disguise this thread as an ‘appreciation’ thread instead!” [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isd-appreciation-on-behalf-of-the-community-thank-you/240222.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isd-appreciation-on-behalf-of-the-community-thank-you/240222.md?page=6)