# Isnt it finally time to NERF Incursions? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 24, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isnt-it-finally-time-to-nerf-incursions/19465 "2017-08-24T16:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Frostys\_Virpio](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/frostys_virpio/32/12703_2.png) [@Frostys\_Virpio](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Frostys_Virpio)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2017, 4:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isnt-it-finally-time-to-nerf-incursions/19465/223 "2017-10-06T16:34:34Z")
> [@March\_rabbit](#): > > But The Forge? People buy stuff in there to move to other places. How is it zero? People also produce stuff out and sell it in Jita. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isnt-it-finally-time-to-nerf-incursions/19465/224 "2017-10-06T17:36:30Z")
> [@Frostys\_Virpio](#): > > People also produce stuff out and sell it in Jita. Yup. It just so happens that for the Forge the two tend to balance out. No biggie. This actually should tell us all something. Worrying about the balance of trade is largely stupid. So one region has a negative balance of trade, big deal. Another region has a positive balance of trade, so what. And this other region is near so, who cares. It is largely meaningless. Stop worrying about the balance of trade…consider this…it is a hobgoblin in the mind of a certain U.S. President who is about as economically illiterate as they come. Don’t be like him. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2017, 9:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isnt-it-finally-time-to-nerf-incursions/19465/225 "2017-10-06T21:56:13Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Stop worrying about the balance of trade…consider this…it is a hobgoblin Jita is a cancer that demonstrates the movement of material is too convenient and safe in EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 10:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isnt-it-finally-time-to-nerf-incursions/19465/226 "2017-10-07T22:57:45Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Jita is a cancer that demonstrates the movement of material is too convenient and safe in EVE. I am going to suggest an alternative interpretation or at least a different way of looking at the implications/consequences of this. The more industrial output there is the more stuff there is to blow up. 😄 And I’m mildly disappointed that nobody asked about my reference to 1776. 😢 ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isnt-it-finally-time-to-nerf-incursions/19465/227 "2017-10-07T23:16:50Z")
> [@Persifonne](#): > > The risk-free, ungankable, isk-printing “pve activity” of Incursion running has DESTABALIZED the economy. > > For years and years the rsik-free isk faucet of 100% safe incursions have printted too much isk and have ruined the market and economy. > > It is basically the SOLE REASON FOR INFLATION and is most of hisecs isk-generation. > > Dude facts are facts and you cant deny it. > Incursions need a nerf years ago; FACT. > > When is the time? Opinion! > > FACT! Since when are incursion runners ungankable? 😛 I’ve seen lots of them explode ---
**Author:** ![Anabella\_Rella](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anabella_rella/32/504852_2.png) [@Anabella\_Rella](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anabella_Rella)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 4:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isnt-it-finally-time-to-nerf-incursions/19465/228 "2017-10-08T04:21:09Z")
Someone apparently hasn’t read the monthly economic reports and accompanying charts and graphs and instead is speaking from their biases and hatred of high sec. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 4:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isnt-it-finally-time-to-nerf-incursions/19465/229 "2017-10-08T04:24:57Z")
Sorry…who? ---
**Author:** ![Anabella\_Rella](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anabella_rella/32/504852_2.png) [@Anabella\_Rella](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anabella_Rella)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 4:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isnt-it-finally-time-to-nerf-incursions/19465/230 "2017-10-08T04:26:31Z")
Persifonne, the one quoted in the post before mine. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 4:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isnt-it-finally-time-to-nerf-incursions/19465/231 "2017-10-08T04:44:55Z")
Ahhh yes, I agree. Worrying about incursions is just silly. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 5:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isnt-it-finally-time-to-nerf-incursions/19465/232 "2017-10-08T05:04:10Z")
> [@Dinsdale\_Pirannha](#): > > goons, just in Delve alone, created 7.9 trillion in ISK last month. > > Or, roughly the same as ALL incursions in the entire game generated. So all of Goons combined generated the same as \<3% of players that run incursions generated. Wow. How terrible that 40,000 could make the same amount as 4000-5000 make in incursions. Go do something about it if you don’t like it. Shoot them. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 7:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isnt-it-finally-time-to-nerf-incursions/19465/233 "2017-10-08T07:24:03Z")
Adam Weishaupt/illuminati confirmed? Amarillo Lestoat ? > “Amarillo” is Spanish for “yellow”, “le” is French for “the” and a stoat is an animal related to the weasel. Consequently, his name appears to translate to “the yellow stoat”. Too many options! ---
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 9:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isnt-it-finally-time-to-nerf-incursions/19465/234 "2017-10-08T09:18:03Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > And I’m mildly disappointed that nobody asked about my reference to 1776. 😢 Adam Smith? ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 8:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isnt-it-finally-time-to-nerf-incursions/19465/235 "2017-10-08T20:46:40Z")
> [@March\_rabbit](#): > > Adam Smith? Yes! 😀 ---
**Author:** ![ExcalibursTemplar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/excaliburstemplar/32/383837_2.png) [@ExcalibursTemplar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ExcalibursTemplar)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 7:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isnt-it-finally-time-to-nerf-incursions/19465/236 "2017-10-09T19:42:25Z")
In the last incursion with TVP in Jondik i ran for roughly 37 hours and averaged around 148mill per hour not counting LP. Now that might seem pretty good on the surface but then you have to start taking everything else in to account. - Like the 2 bill i spent and hours of work i put in to getting a Raitaru setup with with enough fuel to run a clone bay until January to help attract players. - The 120+ bill i’ve spent on implants, injectors, ship fittings, ships and months of training just so i can get up to the standard so i can step up to be an FC. - Then there’s actually forming, you see those 37 hours add on another 10+ hours trying to form, posting adverts and basically trying to help anyone you can to get their fits sorted just to get fleet up and running. Which includes me giving away borrowing and being scammed out of billions of ISK. - You then have the fleets themselves at times they run like a dream. Other times it’s incredibly difficult and i end up doing 3 other jobs plus my own at the same time. Anyway to answer your original Question with all the nerfs in the last 12 months, player count dropping. Income has dropped from around 180/200 mill per hour to around 150 mill an hour. They’ve also got a dam site more dangerous in the the last month due to recent changes in the aggro mechanics. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale\_Pirannha](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dinsdale_pirannha/32/254927_2.png) [@Dinsdale\_Pirannha](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dinsdale_Pirannha)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 3:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isnt-it-finally-time-to-nerf-incursions/19465/237 "2017-10-10T15:05:46Z")
> [@ExcalibursTemplar](#): > > In the last incursion with TVP in Jondik i ran for roughly 37 hours and averaged around 148mill per hour not counting LP. > > Now that might seem pretty good on the surface but then you have to start taking everything else in to account. > > - Like the 2 bill i spent and hours of work i put in to getting a Raitaru setup with with enough fuel to run a clone bay until January to help attract players. > > - The 120+ bill i’ve spent on implants, injectors, ship fittings, ships and months of training just so i can get up to the standard so i can step up to be an FC. > > - Then there’s actually forming, you see those 37 hours add on another 10+ hours trying to form, posting adverts and basically trying to help anyone you can to get their fits sorted just to get fleet up and running. Which includes me giving away borrowing and being scammed out of billions of ISK. > > - You then have the fleets themselves at times they run like a dream. Other times it’s incredibly difficult and i end up doing 3 other jobs plus my own at the same time. > > Anyway to answer your original Question with all the nerfs in the last 12 months, player count dropping. Income has dropped from around 180/200 mill per hour to around 150 mill an hour. They’ve also got a dam site more dangerous in the the last month due to recent changes in the aggro mechanics. Now now, never let facts get in the way of another attack on high sec income by the null sec cartel meta-gamers. ---
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isnt-it-finally-time-to-nerf-incursions/19465/238 "2017-10-10T19:53:36Z")
Well… putting the story THIS WAY one could say that to have 300 mil/hour from supercarrier ratting one needs first: - to spend 100+ billion to buy and fit Keepstar (to dock this supercarrier) - to spend billions on skill injectors - to spend 30+ billion on supercarrier itself - to gather hundreds of players to secure 0.0 sov space - etc… Looks funny doesn’t it? In reality Incursion is limited and that’s it. No need to find other differences because they are many. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 12:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isnt-it-finally-time-to-nerf-incursions/19465/239 "2017-10-17T12:37:18Z")
This isn’t “highsec” income, as 99% of highsec don’t run them. Try harder. ---
**Author:** ![niters\_rocks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/niters_rocks/32/253739_2.png) [@niters\_rocks](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/niters_rocks)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isnt-it-finally-time-to-nerf-incursions/19465/240 "2017-10-21T17:12:03Z")
Most of this is wrong and doesn’t look into the facts for the reasons already listed. So far this thread has focused on HQ and VG sites, which make good isk but Assault sites aren’t really done unless forced to and scout sites aren’t done at all even when VG fleets get light on people as there is just no isk Incursion scout sites (3-5 people) need another revamp, last one was in 2014. As a result of lots of ECM and heavy tanked NPCs (but low dps) its very easy to tank them but trying to make any isk from them is hard. Just went into a FRO (a scout site) to double check, 2 mara, 1 arnon, 1 jel as the first wave (data from [http://games.chruker.dk/eve\_online/npc\_ships.php?supergroup=24](http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/npc_ships.php?supergroup=24) ) 140 hp/s rep from the 1 mara, so trying to kill 1 mara requires 700 ehp/s applied. The mara also range tanks (orbits 60 km/s, 2km/s burn speed) and has a sig of 65m reducing the application While this is happening the arnon is using ECM of 12.0, so the chance to jam someone in fleet and further reduce the fleets dps is high The jel doesn’t do much but has a sig of 49m, velocity when orbiting of 560m/s at 11km and shield resists of 60% , so unless you have a lot of webs/paints or T3 cruisers it won’t die quickly, specially if the mara rep it. I am aware that CCP want these as low isk and easy to run for newbros ect but they would be lucky to make 15 mill/hour with a lot more effort than belt ratting. HQ fleets ,40 people, 8-16 of which are snipers sometimes struggle to take out 2 maras if they are up to speed let alone a 5 man fleet that will need at least 1 person with short range guns to get the jel (or people using drones) and probably 1 person as logi or using marauder fleet it would still be a difficult to get the dps to break the mara reps Best thing to do would make it so that a max ship size could get into the site then massively reduce the tank/change the types of rats used, would suggest frig with maybe 1 battleship (depending on what the maximum sized ship is this could be too much tank, yulai spawning at short range wouldn’t be too bad) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isnt-it-finally-time-to-nerf-incursions/19465/241 "2017-11-22T16:51:41Z")
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