# Issue of local-powered gate camps? **URL:** \ **Category:** Warfare & Tactics\ **Created:** [January 27, 2021, 8:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/issue-of-local-powered-gate-camps/292275 "2021-01-27T20:13:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Algathas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/algathas/32/397229_2.png) [@Algathas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Algathas)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 3:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/issue-of-local-powered-gate-camps/292275/82 "2021-02-08T15:11:28Z")
> [@Ridley\_Rohan](#): > > Lovely. Maybe, but what we do know is that there are some people in here with a negative defeatist attitude. It’s no wonder they are ruined by lowly trash like us gate campers. If the gate campers are there supposedly 24/7 permanently for years that means what? They aren’t everywhere else in Eve. Imagine being beaten by something that just stays there that you know is there and not in thousands upon thousands of other possible systems. And that is without even considering all the mechanics and tools available to deal with them. It’s sad really. ---
**Author:** ![Ridley\_Rohan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ridley_rohan/32/403694_2.png) [@Ridley\_Rohan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ridley_Rohan)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 2:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/issue-of-local-powered-gate-camps/292275/83 "2021-02-09T02:16:05Z")
> [@Algathas](#): > > If the gate campers are there supposedly 24/7 permanently for years that means what? They aren’t everywhere else in Eve. Which is the opposite of the dynamic game I advocate. Them having to move around would mean quite a lot to everyone’s game play, including more opportunities to attack them with meaning. > [@Algathas](#): > > Maybe, but what we do know is that there are some people in here with a negative defeatist attitude. Sure. More tools will mean nothing to them. > [@Algathas](#): > > It’s no wonder they are ruined by lowly trash like us gate campers. Making justifications for bullying and criminal activitiy is easy, but few of those excuses are sound. ---
**Author:** ![Cypr3ss\_Deteis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypr3ss_deteis/32/392947_2.png) [@Cypr3ss\_Deteis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypr3ss_Deteis)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 5:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/issue-of-local-powered-gate-camps/292275/84 "2021-02-09T05:39:23Z")
Do you think making up a quote justifies your head in the sand attitude towards anyone who disagrees with you? It doesn’t bro. I mostly enjoy how you earlier conceded replying was meaningless, yet here you are, at it again… at least I am able to quote a complete sentence and not make up garbage… does that prove the testicular fortitude you seek? lol 🙂 > [@Ridley\_Rohan](#): > > Just focus on your own behavior for a second here. If you could apply your own advise as quickly as you are able to dish it out it would be wonderful. > [@Algathas](#): > > It’s sad really. It really is! but also _kind_ of amusing 🙂 Regards, Cypr3ss. ---
**Author:** ![Katya\_Itzimaru](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/katya_itzimaru/32/512123_2.png) [@Katya\_Itzimaru](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Katya_Itzimaru)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 9:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/issue-of-local-powered-gate-camps/292275/85 "2021-02-09T09:35:17Z")
> [@Ridley\_Rohan](#): > > Which is the opposite of the dynamic game I advocate. Them having to move around would mean quite a lot to everyone’s game play, including more opportunities to attack them with meaning. There’s a couple of key things you’re missing here. Gate camps are almost exclusively a function of geography. Tama is camped because it’s the closest lowsec to Jita and on many “shorter” routes. Vecamia is camped because it’s a shortcut Jita\<\>Amarr. Uedama is a natural bottleneck in highsec. You won’t move camps without completely changing the gate network or introducing incredibly egregious mechanics. Also, gate-camps are a reliable source of content for both the campers and the people that come to fight at them. Many groups know they’re very likely to have a fight if they head to commonly camped systems, eliminating a lot of uncertainly and travel time from smaller-scale PvP. ---
**Author:** ![Ridley\_Rohan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ridley_rohan/32/403694_2.png) [@Ridley\_Rohan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ridley_Rohan)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2021, 3:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/issue-of-local-powered-gate-camps/292275/86 "2021-02-10T03:21:02Z")
> [@Katya\_Itzimaru](#): > > There’s a couple of key things you’re missing here. Since you never once said in your whole post permanent and semi-permanent, I think its you who missed a bunch of my posts. You didn’t read the thread did you? > Gate camps are almost exclusively a function of geography. When I said “bottleneck” before, did you think I was talking about beer? Oh, that’s right. You didn’t read the thread so… ---
**Author:** ![Cypr3ss\_Deteis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypr3ss_deteis/32/392947_2.png) [@Cypr3ss\_Deteis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypr3ss_Deteis)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2021, 6:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/issue-of-local-powered-gate-camps/292275/87 "2021-02-10T06:15:00Z")
> [@Katya\_Itzimaru](#): > > Gate camps are almost exclusively a function of geography. > [@Ridley\_Rohan](#): > > Since you never once said in your whole post permanent and semi-permanent, I think its you who missed a bunch of my posts. \< sigh \> Permanent and semi-permanent gate camps are almost exclusively a function of geography… followed by the rest of the relevant points made by Katya… will that change the response from Ridley, probably not 😑 Regards, Cypr3ss. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2021, 7:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/issue-of-local-powered-gate-camps/292275/88 "2021-02-10T07:19:25Z")
> [@Ridley\_Rohan](#): > > Since you never once said in your whole post permanent and semi-permanent, I think its you who missed a bunch of my posts. > > You didn’t read the thread did you? They did read the thread and it’s a very good point they made: when geography is permanent, the most effective gatecamp locations are permanent too, as those locations are mostly a result of geography. CCP did shake up the high sec geography with the trig invasion, does anyone know if some (semi-)permanent gatecamps got moved because of that? ---
**Author:** ![Katya\_Itzimaru](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/katya_itzimaru/32/512123_2.png) [@Katya\_Itzimaru](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Katya_Itzimaru)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2021, 9:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/issue-of-local-powered-gate-camps/292275/89 "2021-02-10T09:06:19Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > CCP did shake up the high sec geography with the trig invasion, does anyone know if some (semi-)permanent gatecamps got moved because of that? Vecamia is certainly more busy now. The other effects are more negative, with it being a lot more awkward to navigate around Caldari FW space with systems removed. > [@Ridley\_Rohan](#): > > You didn’t read the thread did you? You’re proposing a system that forces changes to where gate camps are likely to be located. This is almost impossible without adjusting the geography (under CCP’s control) or the economic/political landscape (under player control) for these reasons: Players gate-camp to get easy kills on passers by, which in turn provides an incentive for others to come fight them as their location and rough composition becomes a known PvP source, and to take over the valuable camping spot. The whole system is based on player traffic, so if you force campers to stop gate camping the high-traffic systems with game mechanics, they’ll just gate camp less as there’s no incentive to camp the quiet areas of lowsec. The result of far less gate-camping is: Carebears will think it’s good at first, as this means the nasty PvPers who kill them as soon as they enter Rancer in their mining barge will probably be gone. They’ll still die to the first competent pirate that spots them out in space and lowsec won’t be much safer, just more dead of meaningful content. Gate-camps that do exist will be harder to predict, and dying to them will be more random than based on learning where is and isn’t safe. The people who enjoy the smaller-scale skirmishes that happen around gates in lowsec will simply get less content, and poorer quality. They’ll have to travel further for it too. Smaller groups that like PvP will have less incentive to play EVE, and lowsec will become even more of an inert wasteland stalked by a handful of bittervets. If anything I’d propose more gate-camping happening in more predictable locations would be a positive change for the game’s ecosystem, alongside more developed rewards for living in lowsec to pull people into the space and create engaging conflict. Back on the original topic, I’d like to see local delayed very slightly, so that you only appear when you load grid in system. It would allow people to surprise campers by immediately decloaking their tackle before the campers can do a back-ground check for bait / scouting players. It would also make the balance of predator and prey in nullsec more consistent and fair. ---
**Author:** ![Cypr3ss\_Deteis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypr3ss_deteis/32/392947_2.png) [@Cypr3ss\_Deteis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypr3ss_Deteis)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2021, 10:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/issue-of-local-powered-gate-camps/292275/90 "2021-02-10T10:03:16Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > CCP did shake up the high sec geography with the trig invasion, does anyone know if some (semi-)permanent gatecamps got moved because of that? Niarja, which was part of the main (only?) HS pipe between caldari & amaar space, used to be a regular spot for ganks by CODE (et al I assume) and got turned into a null sec system. For a little while after (at least while I was still involved in the trig invasion stuff) the people running those ganks/camps switched to camping the gates within Pochven (Niarja became a ‘home system’ in the Pochven region) though I’m not sure if that’s still a thing or not. IIRC all the other systems that flipped were ‘edge’ systems that didn’t really lead to or from anywhere. Regards, Cypr3ss. ---
**Author:** ![Ridley\_Rohan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ridley_rohan/32/403694_2.png) [@Ridley\_Rohan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ridley_Rohan)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2021, 1:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/issue-of-local-powered-gate-camps/292275/91 "2021-02-10T13:43:36Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > They did read the thread We have a mind reader here. FFS. Seriously bro. You are delusional. Notice how she quoted the question from me about reading the thread, and she sidestepped it without a yes or no answer. She didn’t read it. She skimmed at best and could not even just admit it. Which leads me to my next point; not admitting that, we can only expect a dodge fest regarding any point she screws up. What’s the point engaging then? There is none. ---
**Author:** ![Ridley\_Rohan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ridley_rohan/32/403694_2.png) [@Ridley\_Rohan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ridley_Rohan)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2021, 1:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/issue-of-local-powered-gate-camps/292275/92 "2021-02-10T13:52:26Z")
> [@Cypr3ss\_Deteis](#): > > will that change the response from Ridley, probably not Why would it? Not all gate camps are a function of geography. Many are, and permanent and semi-permament ones mostly are, but that’s not what she wrote. She wrote “gate camps” without my vital caveat. Zero reason for me to change anything. ---
**Author:** ![Zoiie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zoiie/32/292363_2.png) [@Zoiie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zoiie)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2021, 1:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/issue-of-local-powered-gate-camps/292275/93 "2021-02-10T13:53:48Z")
After all these years and still no delayed local everywhere We use bubble proof ships with fast align to roam null and you can still use cloaks too if you fit them right Also look at those reindeer ears (or whatever they call them now) to randomly roam about and use wormholes ---
**Author:** ![Ridley\_Rohan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ridley_rohan/32/403694_2.png) [@Ridley\_Rohan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ridley_Rohan)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2021, 1:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/issue-of-local-powered-gate-camps/292275/94 "2021-02-10T13:56:53Z")
> [@Zoiie](#): > > We use bubble proof ships with fast align to roam null and you can still use cloaks too if you fit them right I will present the same challenge to you as I did another. Move 100 units of ice through Frulegur in one go…you know…one go so its at least minimally profitable. See its not just about getting your clone through. Dead clones mean nothing. Its about getting goods through. ---
**Author:** ![Zoiie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zoiie/32/292363_2.png) [@Zoiie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zoiie)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2021, 1:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/issue-of-local-powered-gate-camps/292275/95 "2021-02-10T13:58:19Z")
Do it at hours when you know they’re not active Make a fleet and chase them out Find another route, wait for a good wormhole route perhaps, use scouts ---
**Author:** ![Ridley\_Rohan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ridley_rohan/32/403694_2.png) [@Ridley\_Rohan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ridley_Rohan)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2021, 2:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/issue-of-local-powered-gate-camps/292275/96 "2021-02-10T14:03:59Z")
> [@Zoiie](#): > > Do it at hours when you know they’re not active Not profitable and maybe not even possible depending on when you can play. > [@Zoiie](#): > > Make a fleet and chase them out If you are fighting you aren’t hauling. The Frulegur camp has been going for years despite having a nice ice system on the far side. There are reasons for that imbalance. > [@Zoiie](#): > > Find another route, If there is one, its through null sec. Boom. > [@Zoiie](#): > > wait for a good wormhole route perhaps Waiting is not hauling and its not profitable. > [@Zoiie](#): > > use scouts A scout will tell you its camped almost 24/7. Do you play EVE??? ---
**Author:** ![Zoiie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zoiie/32/292363_2.png) [@Zoiie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zoiie)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2021, 2:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/issue-of-local-powered-gate-camps/292275/97 "2021-02-10T14:06:35Z")
Do I play Eve? No, I’m on Linux, CCP don’t like Linux. But, if you’re worried about profitability, find another market, or you can just whine and moan over that one. Pay a courier to take the risk, with high collateral 🙂 You can profit on their loss. What about jump hauling into null? Blockade runner? Adapt or die, you choose die it seems ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2021, 3:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/issue-of-local-powered-gate-camps/292275/98 "2021-02-10T15:47:02Z")
> [@Ridley\_Rohan](#): > > Move 100 units of ice through Frulegur in one go…you know…one go so its at least minimally profitable. No idea about the quality of the gate camp, but the Endurance can easily haul 150 blocks of compressed ice while avoiding gate camps without bubble. It can align at full speed while cloaked, so it can warp immediately after decloaking. Only the most vigilant decloaking gate campers could catch it. Maybe worth a try? The Endurance also mines almost as fast as a Procurer, so it seems perfect to me for mining ice in dangerous systems with camped gates on the route. ---
**Author:** ![Algathas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/algathas/32/397229_2.png) [@Algathas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Algathas)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2021, 4:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/issue-of-local-powered-gate-camps/292275/99 "2021-02-10T16:50:34Z")
> [@Katya\_Itzimaru](#): > > Back on the original topic, I’d like to see local delayed very slightly, so that you only appear when you load grid in system. It would allow people to surprise campers by immediately decloaking their tackle before the campers can do a back-ground check for bait / scouting players. It has already been said earlier in this topic but I will reiterate: Campers do not need local whatsoever. We know who you are and what your in multiple jumps before you ever reach us. We know when you’re on the other side of the gate and when you jump. We know this not needing local but actively watching gates. We actually prefer blackout so please remove local completely. ---
**Author:** ![Katya\_Itzimaru](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/katya_itzimaru/32/512123_2.png) [@Katya\_Itzimaru](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Katya_Itzimaru)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2021, 6:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/issue-of-local-powered-gate-camps/292275/100 "2021-02-10T18:31:41Z")
> [@Algathas](#): > > We know this not needing local but actively watching gates It won’t affect them all, but not all campers are this competent, there’s plenty of idiots out there. If they’re not watching the other side, it can make the difference between fleeing a bait ship or immediately engaging. I’ve participated in some pretty poor quality hotdropping on gatecampers of even poorer quality that attests to this. The main benefit of delayed local in all systems is countering carebears in null without completely removing things to hunt. ---
**Author:** ![Algathas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/algathas/32/397229_2.png) [@Algathas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Algathas)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2021, 7:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/issue-of-local-powered-gate-camps/292275/101 "2021-02-10T19:00:42Z")
> [@Katya\_Itzimaru](#): > > not all campers are this competent I definitely agree with you there. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/issue-of-local-powered-gate-camps/292275.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/issue-of-local-powered-gate-camps/292275.md?page=6)