# It should not be possible to avoid ship loss in combat by storing your ship in a bowhead **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 5, 2020, 12:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065 "2020-04-05T12:14:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/archer_en_tilavine/32/461718_2.png) [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Archer_en_Tilavine)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 7:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/182 "2020-04-06T19:52:44Z")
> [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](#): > > There are no fair fights in EvE, and neither should there be any. That’s true when it comes to being unprepared or deceived, but it would be absurd to take this mantra too literally outside of this context. That would be like saying it is desirable/acceptable/tolerable gameplay to win battles by DDoSing opponents or pulling their power plugs. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 7:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/183 "2020-04-06T19:56:05Z")
> [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](#): > > That would be like saying it is desirable/acceptable/tolerable gameplay to win battles by DDoSing opponents or pulling their power plugs. No, it wouldn’t. You’re taking it too far. It’s literally just people storing their ships into other ships during combat without consequences. It’s not doing something criminally illegal. It’s also not an exploit or a loophole. It’s stupid mechanics working as intended. People need to get a better grip on reality. You make people like myself, who agree with a mechanics change, look bad. ---
**Author:** ![Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/archer_en_tilavine/32/461718_2.png) [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Archer_en_Tilavine)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 8:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/184 "2020-04-06T20:01:44Z")
> [@Solecist\_Project](#): > > No, it wouldn’t. You’re taking it too far. I’m not talking about the Bowhead. I’m talking his statement “there are no fair fights in EvE, and neither should there be any” - I’ve always believed and supported this in proper context, but some people take this way too literally outside of that context. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 8:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/185 "2020-04-06T20:08:38Z")
It kind of sounds like you’re implying it’s an exploit or a loophole … … which it simply isn’t. I don’t think he’s taking it too far at all. It simply is a mechanical advantage which I believe is rather ■■■■■■■■. Please make no mistake, though … the reason for that isn’t even close to me believing in fair fights. I also don’t consider this mechanic as unfair in any way or form. It’s how it is. What I do consider it as, though, is too much safety for both PvPers, PvErs, carebears and worthless shitty farmers alike. 1. Gank targets can protect their ships this way and at some point this knowledge makes enough rounds to turn into a norm. That’s going to happen when there’s an increase in competitive mining corps. 2. When a ship is being shot at, it simply shouldn’t be possible to harmlessly hide it inside another ship. That’s just ■■■■■■■ dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Kell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucas_kell/32/393556_2.png) [@Lucas\_Kell](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucas_Kell)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 8:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/186 "2020-04-06T20:11:16Z")
(post withdrawn by author, will be automatically deleted in 24 hours unless flagged) ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 8:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/187 "2020-04-06T20:14:34Z")
^^ This is not a topic I know anything about. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 8:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/188 "2020-04-06T20:19:19Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > No sir, calling for the rules to be changed because things didn’t go your way is the polar opposite. The mechanic has actual problems if we consider future social developments. > [@Solecist\_Project](#): > > Gank targets can protect their ships this way and at some point this knowledge makes enough rounds to turn into a norm. That’s going to happen when there’s an increase in competitive mining corps. Scarcity promotes conflict. More conflict means more people hiding their ships when they’re being attacked. More people hiding their ships means more effort/energy/money required for conflict. That’s why this, as it seems, in its current form, requires a change. Sorry. vOv ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 8:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/190 "2020-04-06T20:20:38Z")
Pretty good strawman, though. You can go again if you want. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Kalus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lord_kalus/32/512583_2.png) [@Lord\_Kalus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lord_Kalus)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 8:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/191 "2020-04-06T20:21:45Z")
> [@Solecist\_Project](#): > > More conflict means more people hiding their ships when they’re being attacked. By 2021 every war fleet on both sides will have a neutral bowhead it warps around with while looking for fights. Seems like fun gameplay. While I’m enjoying that let me shove bamboo slivers under my fingernails too. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 8:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/192 "2020-04-06T20:23:47Z")
So they put all their juicy loot in one ship? Bowheads aren’t impossible to gank. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Kalus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lord_kalus/32/512583_2.png) [@Lord\_Kalus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lord_Kalus)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 8:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/193 "2020-04-06T20:25:14Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > Bowheads aren’t impossible to gank. Is that the emergent gameplay meta we really want to be aiming at though? Whoever ganks the other side’s bowhead first wins the war? ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 8:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/194 "2020-04-06T20:26:36Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > So they put all their juicy loot in one ship? Bowheads aren’t impossible to gank. The broad mass of people, the backbone of every economy, doesn’t usually have the ressources to gank neither a bowhead nor an orca. It’s easy to bring a Bowhead/Orca, but it’s not that easy ganking one. Please try actual arguments where you’re not ignoring the vast majority of people. Too many people active here, so I’ll opt out. Stay healthy, everyone! ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 8:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/195 "2020-04-06T20:27:19Z")
Roleplaying and trolling aside, I feel like every highsec war change CCP makes is for the worse. Maybe this bowhead thing is a real issue, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 8:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/196 "2020-04-06T20:28:14Z")
How is it easy to bring a bowhead but virtually impossible to gank it? I don’t understand your argument. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Kalus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lord_kalus/32/512583_2.png) [@Lord\_Kalus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lord_Kalus)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/197 "2020-04-06T20:29:41Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > every highsec war change CCP makes is for the worse I might have to agree with you on that one. The main reason for the changes to allow corps to opt out of wardecs, though, was they ran the numbers on how many corps fold and have their members walk after a corp like pirat neuters their activity for a few weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 8:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/198 "2020-04-06T20:33:56Z")
Buying a big ship is easy. One man can do it. Ganking a big ship is hard. One man can’t do it. Buying a big ship = going to the market and spending money. Ganking a big ship = going to the market buying a dozen ships, buying all the required modules and ammo for that dozen ships moving all those ships to where they’re needed and having either enough alts or enough people to actually kill it. And all that investment _(time, money, manpower)_ is then gone … … poof … … while the Orca/Bowhead pilot gets insurance and the gank might even fail. In a more competitive environment people absolutely _will_ protect their ships as much as possible, because scarcity doesn’t just promote conflict, it also promotes resourcefulness. Oh boy, I sound so smart today! I better leave now, it might hurt my reputation! 🤪 ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 8:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/199 "2020-04-06T20:49:05Z")
Yeah, you sound pretty smart. I can’t argue with you. But, the idea of a bunch of bowheads loaded with blinged out warships floating lazily in space sounds like a lot of fun to me. I have no doubt that some of them would have a weak(ish) tank. ---
**Author:** ![Cheseburg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cheseburg/32/195915_2.png) [@Cheseburg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cheseburg)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 9:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/200 "2020-04-06T21:02:57Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > How is it easy to bring a bowhead but virtually impossible to gank it? I don’t understand your argument. The bowhead was within range of a citadel, tethered, drag dropping each ship to the hangar as the fleet stored their ships into it. You can’t gank tethered ships. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 9:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/201 "2020-04-06T21:03:04Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Why is it that wardec groups keep banging on about how the watchlist mechanics should be changed then? Which wardec groups? Members of most of them dont even post on the forum. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 9:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/202 "2020-04-06T21:03:28Z")
> [@Cheseburg](#): > > You can’t gank tethered ships. Oh . . . now I see the problem. Maybe you guys are right. I cannot think of a pat answer to solve that. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065.md?page=9) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065.md?page=11)