# It should not be possible to avoid ship loss in combat by storing your ship in a bowhead **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 5, 2020, 12:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065 "2020-04-05T12:14:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Knowledgeminer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/knowledgeminer/32/422883_2.png) [@Knowledgeminer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Knowledgeminer)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 3:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/304 "2020-04-08T15:50:16Z")
Right, I totally agree with you, as usual, and if you read my previous posts in this thread, you must have noticed this is precisely one of the reasons I’m against making any changes here, that it would break that form of suspect baiting. BTW, I think I lost not 2, but 3 expensive ships because of that. The second time I tried, thinking I would be able to warp away in time when you switched ship, I got stuck at a rock and got caught again. 😡 But I do also see this may become a real problem for CCP if it starts to be widely used by everyone, so don’t be surprised if they do something about it because of that. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 4:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/305 "2020-04-08T16:09:55Z")
> [@Wanda\_Fayne](#): > > You can’t. > > It is tethered the whole time. Of course it is. So all they need to do is prevent ships on combat from accessing a tethered ship. Everything else is fine because in all other cases the solution is to just blow up the bowhead. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 4:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/306 "2020-04-08T16:39:55Z")
> [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > That’s destroying someone else’s property. If it was someone elses property, how come Im not flagged for salvaging it? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 4:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/307 "2020-04-08T16:41:14Z")
> [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > And yet most players, including both of you, prefer to live in high sec and have to deal with those problems, But I dont face that problem? ---
**Author:** ![Knowledgeminer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/knowledgeminer/32/422883_2.png) [@Knowledgeminer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Knowledgeminer)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 5:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/308 "2020-04-08T17:38:01Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > If it was someone elses property, how come Im not flagged for salvaging it? Because CCP decided at some point that they want ninja salvaging to be possible without becoming a legal target, obviously. If you’re trying to say that the effect of ninja salvaging an _empty_ wreck is the same for the owner as destroying it, and yet you get CONCORDed for doing the latter but not even suspect for doing the former, then that’s inconsistent, yes. Making it work consistently would require making an exception to the case when the wreck is empty and not be CONCORDed when shooting it in that particular case, i.e., consider it a criminal offence only the destruction of the wreck _contents_ and not the wreck container itself. I don’t see why would it be worth complicating Crimewatch mechanics to deal with this particular and irrelevant case in a more consistent way, though, nor how is this relevant to anything being discussed here, seems completely off-topic to me… > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > But I dont face that problem? So what? And which of the many problems that you agreed removing CONCORD would solve you don’t face? None of them? Not being able to shoot a wreck without being CONCORDed either? Why would you bring up something like that then, which is completely off topic here? Does this whole “conversation” make sense to you? Also why did you use two separate posts to reply to a single post of mine? ---
**Author:** ![Penance\_Toralen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/penance_toralen/32/244089_2.png) [@Penance\_Toralen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Penance_Toralen)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 5:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/309 "2020-04-08T17:57:37Z")
OK, let’s end with this one. It is recent history after all. But already had gone into myth that war dec changes were driven by player complaint. CCP’s metrics pointed out that large numbers of war-dec’d corps would elect to “quit” for the week of the wardec. No, we did not get the numbers. The CSM did, and the members of that would engage with the community expressed how alarming it was. What would follow from the seven day hiatus was that volumes of players would elect not to return. See, at no point of narration is there the voice of carebear. Oh yeah, there is some threads of this or that. But there is zero collaboration that CCP directly reacts and makes a change. It is well documented that Sisi testing has pointed out some glaring failings which are ignored. (e.g. Resource Wars) If official feedback cannot change or influence then some random unknown making a whinge thread has no chance. Look at it in simple terms now. Mining is getting nerfed with a reduction to the distribution of ores. Basically because it is too effective. But when ganking gets nerfed, apply magical thinking, and it has to be someone else’s fault. Ganking is in decline and will continue to. One of the factors to that, is this insipid instance of being the anti-hero. “we’re here to save high-sec”. It comes across as just trolling or outright stupidity. There was a lot more fun when there was a sense of pride being the villain. Ask yourself, when was the last time there was real shock and awe. Praise and Permits are cliche on to boring. Some of the best advice ever; the difference between a rut and a grave is only the depth. ---
**Author:** ![Gujrok\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gujrok_freir/32/486253_2.png) [@Gujrok\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gujrok_Freir)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 5:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/310 "2020-04-08T17:59:14Z")
> [@Proposal: Using ships to swap ships while flagged as suspect](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-using-ships-to-swap-ships-while-flagged-as-suspect/199173): > > This needs to also flag the ship allowing the swap as suspect. It is aiding the criminal as much as if they had shown up and used a repair system on it. So expect some push back ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 5:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/311 "2020-04-08T17:59:21Z")
> [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > If you’re trying to say that the effect of ninja salvaging an _empty_ wreck is the same for the owner as destroying it, and yet you get CONCORDed for doing the latter but not even suspect for doing the former, then that’s inconsistent, yes. Yeah thats pretty much all I was saying. > [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > So what? You suggested I did. I was correcting that assumption. > [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > Also why did you use two separate posts to reply to a single post of mine? I fat thumbed my phone. Ive no idea why you are getting on edge like this. > [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > And which of the many problems that you agreed removing CONCORD would solve you don’t face? I wasnt aware that my current status was the determining factor on whether IM allowed to participate in a public discussion. Seriously, why have you a rod up your butt today? Its dead easy, consistency should apply, and salvaging “someone elses” wreck should be flaggable. Anythingin fact that results in coming in contact with criminal material either should be flaggable or it shouldnt. This stupid bowhead maneuver should be flagged to the dick. The fact that the code might or might not be written in a stupid way that makes flagging hard to change is totally not my problem. Thats my view. ---
**Author:** ![Cheseburg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cheseburg/32/195915_2.png) [@Cheseburg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cheseburg)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 7:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/312 "2020-04-08T19:27:15Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > > [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > > > I love that highsec gankers are so innovative and come up with new ways to run away when they feel threatened. > > Actually I have to deal with this mechanic usually when miners dock their ship when I attempt to gank them. The difference here is that I consider it a clever tactic and don’t come to the forums to cry about it. > > I find quircky mechanics like this make the game more interesting. But apparently most here are in favor of making the game more boring because they can’t be arsed to come up with ingame counters to the tactic (which is completely possible). wow, talk about being on the wrong side. this crap is getting removed, and the sooner the better. can’t see how anyone could support it unless they abuse it. ---
**Author:** ![safira\_jomita](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/safira_jomita/32/405219_2.png) [@safira\_jomita](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/safira_jomita)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 7:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/313 "2020-04-08T19:42:00Z")
> [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](#): > > It’s sad that CCP needs to introduce nerfs to force “powerful” groups like PIRAT to PVP like men… Haha exactly my words ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 7:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/314 "2020-04-08T19:43:16Z")
True warriors biomass after a ship loss. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 7:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/315 "2020-04-08T19:45:41Z")
> [@Cheseburg](#): > > wow, talk about being on the wrong side. > > this crap is getting removed, and the sooner the better. can’t see how anyone could support it unless they abuse it. You know, there are different kind of spaces with different kind of mechanics and quirks available in EVE. Highsec is special in the way that it allows for suck tricks and tactics. If you don’t like it or don’t care to learn the mechanics to account for it and counter it, your in luck, go to low, null or wormsec where such tactics are not viable. To come here to the forums because you did not understand an existing tactic and lost a target because of it is simply pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Knowledgeminer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/knowledgeminer/32/422883_2.png) [@Knowledgeminer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Knowledgeminer)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 7:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/316 "2020-04-08T19:59:41Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > You suggested I did. I was correcting that assumption. Where did I suggest you did? What I said was in reply to you agreeing that removing CONCORD would be the solution to many problems and yet you prefer to live in the part of the EvE universe where those problems exist because of CONCORD. Whether you face those problems or not makes no difference to what you said and my reply to it. What’s relevant is that you think removing CONCORD would solve many problems and yet you prefer to live in high sec nonetheless. That’s what I was replying to, period. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Ive no idea why you are getting on edge like this. Maybe you don’t care, but I make a heavy use of these forums and hate having to deal with more posts than necessary. Heck, I seem to remember having seen somewhere the forums themselves recommend avoid using multiple posts for things that can be said in a single one, but not sure about that, cannot find it now, maybe it’s in one of those warnings that appear when you reply too often to someone or something like that. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > I wasnt aware that my current status was the determining factor on whether IM allowed to participate in a public discussion. What? The (or rather a) determining factor on whether you’re allowed to participate in a public discussion is whether you’re on topic or completely off-topic, not your “status”, whatever that means. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Its dead easy, consistency should apply, and salvaging “someone elses” wreck should be flaggable. Again, the inconsistency in regards to ninja salvaging could be solved by not criminally flagging for shooting _empty_ wrecks. There is no need to change how ninja salvaging works to keep consistency. Anyway, I’m not going to discuss this any further because it’s completely off-topic here. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Anythingin fact that results in coming in contact with criminal material either should be flaggable or it shouldnt. This stupid bowhead maneuver should be flagged to the dick. This makes no sense. What does pretending the bowhead should be “flagged to the dick” have to do with consistency? The only change that would make sense to make for consistency there is prevent docking when being warp scrambled, so the restrictions when docking in another ship are the same as when docking in a structure. Any other restrictions or penalties to that would be for some _other_ reason, not for consistency… ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 8:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/317 "2020-04-08T20:03:17Z")
The “Houdini” maneuver. I still get a chuckle. 😄 > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > learn the mechanics to account for it and counter it Key phrase here. We probably would have not said a word and just use it on others until we figured out a counter. Or someone said something on the forums. Eventually CCP would find out and now that they know, they will probably do something about it. I still worry what. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 8:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/318 "2020-04-08T20:15:16Z")
The counter is pretty easy. First, a ship can’t dock with weapons timer, so the pilot in question has to disengage and then wait a minute. It’s also only possible in the 2.5km range around the bowhead, which is easy to mess with. Just bump the target when you see it on dscan an then the bowhead when he lands out of range. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 8:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/319 "2020-04-08T20:18:45Z")
JC! Your not supposed to tell anyone! 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 8:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/320 "2020-04-08T20:25:26Z")
Nobody knows how to bump anyway. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 8:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/321 "2020-04-08T20:32:46Z")
Speak for yourself. I still have all my saved locations for bumping ships away from undocks. 🕶 😀 ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 8:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/322 "2020-04-08T20:41:58Z")
You probably don’t need to worry too much about the elite squadron of hostile bumping machariels showing up and turning the tide of battle in highsec. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 8:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065/323 "2020-04-08T20:46:49Z")
No, I rarely got to use them much. It’s just fun when you can. I still don’t see why everyone is so butthurt. Exploits of game mechanics have been around since I started. We just worked with it or around it until CCP hits it with a sledgehammer… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065.md?page=15) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/it-should-not-be-possible-to-avoid-ship-loss-in-combat-by-storing-your-ship-in-a-bowhead/230065.md?page=17)