# It's not just these forums it seems **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 2, 2021, 6:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/its-not-just-these-forums-it-seems/308850 "2021-05-02T06:47:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2021, 8:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/its-not-just-these-forums-it-seems/308850/42 "2021-05-02T20:46:55Z")
> [@Sarah\_Olson](#): > > Maybe I’m remembering with rose tinted glasses but I get the distinct feeling the devs posted way more regularly on the old forums. They memed, trolled, and most importantly even answered questions once in awhile. Yeah, I guess the OP wasn’t around during that time. CCP did that quite a bit, In fact they constantly encouraged it. That type of mentality chased a lot of forum members away. Funny thing is when that behavior was redirected back onto CCP, they got all pissy and made changes to forum rules. Then they started doing heavy handed moderation trying to silence those who called them out on their double standard BS. Lot’s of forum members either left or was banned. Course that just fanned the flames even more. CCP’s actions caused even more toxicity to develop and even more forum members left. Obviously CCP couldn’t handle what they created so they implemented ISD CCL to act as moderators. At that time it was promised that ISD CCL would only edit replies and move threads. Course that caused more forum members to leave. Over time CCP has given ISD CCL even more power to the point they can lock threads and implement forum bans. And some people wonder why these forums are like a ghost town… Meanwhile the reason CCP Devs rarely post in these forums because they know there’s a ton of angry toxic backlash waiting for them, and righteously so since they not only fostered and encouraged toxic behavior, they still continue to engage in it themselves. As a result of that mentality, these forums and even the game itself has lost so many members to where it’s now just a shadow of it’s former glory. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2021, 9:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/its-not-just-these-forums-it-seems/308850/43 "2021-05-02T21:49:16Z")
> [@Renly\_Rohan](#): > > I am not sure why you repeated my exact point…but okay. I wasn’t reiterating the point, the ISD team aren’t developers, which is what you suggested in your post. > [@Renly\_Rohan](#): > > I think a core problem here is that the forum does not seem to have full time dedicated moderators but rather **developers** trying (and failing) to do an adequate job of moderation through intermittent checking here. > > **One** recently excused himself saying “I have a job”. Yep. And keeping this forum on track does not seem to be the one paying the bills. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2021, 10:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/its-not-just-these-forums-it-seems/308850/44 "2021-05-02T22:40:46Z")
> [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > So, forums are toxic devs don’t use it but they will use reddit instead? Where is the logic in that? Reddit has the benefit and downside of self-filtering because of up and downvotes, and upvoted posts getting more attention. As a result the good ideas, posts and memes are easily consumable there, and most discussion is made impossible. I can see why reddit has benefits, even though the down and upvotes enable echo chambers even more than the forums. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2021, 10:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/its-not-just-these-forums-it-seems/308850/45 "2021-05-02T22:46:28Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > As a result the good tribalist ideas, posts and memes are easily consumable there, and most no discussion is made im possible. FTFY Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2021, 10:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/its-not-just-these-forums-it-seems/308850/46 "2021-05-02T22:48:03Z")
So people at OF are not skilled at the game? Who exactly called me inexperience? You? I don’t get why you posted all this from my part you quoted. Forums must be reorganized, if reddit formula works better why not used it at OF? ---
**Author:** ![Hidden\_Markov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hidden_markov/32/260260_2.png) [@Hidden\_Markov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hidden_Markov)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2021, 10:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/its-not-just-these-forums-it-seems/308850/47 "2021-05-02T22:49:25Z")
More like reddit is not in their control. Here they can delete for blah blah violation. Reddit it dangles as no moderation powers there. That is the logic some are missing lol. Its not the posters here only. At some point it may be needed to show up and say something on reddit. It was at reddit when a dev gave Bob bpo’s this matter was addressed. Here it was close and delete, close and delete. Close and delete. More recent for meme monday a poster put a funny picture about CCP eve code structure. A dev showed up to make a funny comment. If that was put here the thread would be shut down for trolling or ranting most likely. Quite a few reddit threads here if posted would be trolling or ranting shutdown. Just look at the former shadow of itself known as CAOD here. A few years back we didn’t need to reddit to see the alliance trash talk. Now…we do. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2021, 10:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/its-not-just-these-forums-it-seems/308850/48 "2021-05-02T22:49:52Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > As a result the good ideas, posts and memes are easily consumable there, and most discussion is made impossible. “discussion and reddit” - oxymoron. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2021, 10:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/its-not-just-these-forums-it-seems/308850/49 "2021-05-02T22:51:08Z")
Lmao, look at how quick you are to take things personally and get salty about it. > [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > Forums must be reorganized, if reddit formula works better why not used it at OF? This doesn’t even make logical sense. What are you even trying to say here? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2021, 11:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/its-not-just-these-forums-it-seems/308850/50 "2021-05-02T23:13:27Z")
Dealing with backlash comes with the territory of making games. I’m not sure why developers would think that they’re entitled to not get any, especially in the contemporary day and age, when most of them have proven that the only thing that motivates them is to extract as much money from their customers as possible, even if it means delivering incomplete and broken products. Also, devs need to be aware that players aren’t angry with _them_, but with the suits that make all the decisions (unless they’re the same people). ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2021, 11:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/its-not-just-these-forums-it-seems/308850/51 "2021-05-02T23:15:55Z")
There was a chap recently, some industry lead or something, cant remember but had an interview where he said that if gamers love a game, they should buy it at full price and not wait till the price goes down otherwise they had no right to complain if there was no sequel. Feels like some devs are a bit upset that they only get our money and not our love too, poor things ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2021, 11:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/its-not-just-these-forums-it-seems/308850/52 "2021-05-02T23:26:58Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > There was a chap recently, some industry lead or something, cant remember but had an interview where he said that if gamers love a game, they should buy it at full price and not wait till the price goes down otherwise they had no right to complain if there was no sequel. That does have some merit, though. When was no longer a poor student and became financially secure, I started paying for all media and games out of principle just to support their creation (same for patronizing the arts). Some games I buy at full price and don’t wait for sales just to show my support. Especially games with catgirls in them. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2021, 12:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/its-not-just-these-forums-it-seems/308850/53 "2021-05-03T00:35:09Z")
Whilst i appreciate that money has always been an essential side of the gaming business, i do miss the times when it wasn’t **just** about money. When the question was ‘_whats the best game we can make_’ rather than ‘_whats the most money we can make_’. ---
**Author:** ![Zane\_Carbin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zane_carbin/32/281983_2.png) [@Zane\_Carbin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zane_Carbin)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2021, 12:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/its-not-just-these-forums-it-seems/308850/54 "2021-05-03T00:44:14Z")
The problem these days is that a traditional MMO is a bad form of investment compared to things like mobile games, f2p Korean P2W games and all the other stuff us westeners aren’t really a fan of. And that means that to get any type of funding for anything, including the “should we even keep doing this” will be compared to those types of games and investments, it’s very difficult to somehow stay on the straight and narrow with all these lures and options for more profit. KiraTV made a good video on it a few days ago: [The Korean MMORPG Problem - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGEPl02bI6E) It’s something we just have to accept. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2021, 12:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/its-not-just-these-forums-it-seems/308850/55 "2021-05-03T00:45:12Z")
Those days are long gone, it was inevitable as the gaming demographics changed from nerd to mainstream. It’s all about maximum milk for minimum moo now. ---
**Author:** ![Adunh\_Slavy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/adunh_slavy/32/265310_2.png) [@Adunh\_Slavy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Adunh_Slavy)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2021, 12:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/its-not-just-these-forums-it-seems/308850/56 "2021-05-03T00:53:54Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > It’s all about maximum milk for minimum moo now. Yes and no. Games are art, and good art speaks for it self. ---
**Author:** ![Hidden\_Markov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hidden_markov/32/260260_2.png) [@Hidden\_Markov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hidden_Markov)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2021, 1:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/its-not-just-these-forums-it-seems/308850/57 "2021-05-03T01:23:01Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > There was a chap recently, some industry lead or something, cant remember but had an interview where he said that if gamers love a game, they should buy it at full price and not wait till the price goes down otherwise they had no right to complain if there was no sequel. The person would be an idiot lol. Some gamers out there don’t dig paying $100+ (60 + then now now standard DLC and/or season) pass to be beta, if not alpha testers. I can beta/alpha test. For free. Or in the case of many steam indy options new to the scene…your reward for early release play is you get that game at $20, you get full license when released…and avoid the $60 it will be at when released. I am an old bitter gamer. I remember rushing to the mall to get that latest game. For the commodore 64 then amiga. 5.25 then 3.5 in floppies even. NO uphill in the snow no shoes…parents drove me to mall since like 13 lol. Even the now evil empire EA released complete working games day 1 back then. Or the bugs were not game breaking. Or they were fun. Like bards tale 1 when new. LIke its day 1 of its first ever release new. YOu see back then many didn’t even have the internet. there was no well…lets drop that 20 gb patch. On the first day of release… ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2021, 1:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/its-not-just-these-forums-it-seems/308850/58 "2021-05-03T01:28:20Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > There was a chap recently, some industry lead or something, cant remember but had an interview where he said that if gamers love a game, they should buy it at full price and not wait till the price goes down otherwise they had no right to complain if there was no sequel. the steam sale mentality ■■■■■■ games people that buy first at full price fell screwed most of the time some guys advocate price increases , like Minecraft did, i bought it at alpha for way less i respect good games that don’t change the price to 90% off etc, a 10 to 20 % discount is ok . more than that it only foster the FOMO sale thing and its bad for everyone IMO ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2021, 1:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/its-not-just-these-forums-it-seems/308850/59 "2021-05-03T01:34:50Z")
The problem is that there are simply **too many** games to choose from now. If you want a 2D side-scrolling open-world crafting game (like Terraria) and search for that on Steam, you get like 1,100 results. That’s **insane** , even if you remove all the asset-flip trash games and are left with “ **just** ” 100 results. And those numbers grow daily. It’s no wonder that the only way many of these game makers can differentiate themselves is by offering the steepest discounts possible. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2021, 1:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/its-not-just-these-forums-it-seems/308850/60 "2021-05-03T01:38:12Z")
yah i know but games usually sell the most close to release them they have a tail one way to extend the tail is to do anual content updates like stardew valley to keep the game relevant and avoid to screw the early backers ![fddsd](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/7/e/b/7eb1cdae923b9691fa982ae5fa4e9210e5139011.png) ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Darine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rich_darine/32/438327_2.png) [@Rich\_Darine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rich_Darine)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2021, 1:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/its-not-just-these-forums-it-seems/308850/61 "2021-05-03T01:40:07Z")
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