# JF changes cause of agro with the new lance **URL:** \ **Category:** Assembly Hall\ **Created:** [August 13, 2023, 4:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/jf-changes-cause-of-agro-with-the-new-lance/415814 "2023-08-13T16:56:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![imperial\_guard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/imperial_guard/32/393075_2.png) [@imperial\_guard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/imperial_guard)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2023, 10:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/jf-changes-cause-of-agro-with-the-new-lance/415814/21 "2023-08-13T22:09:32Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > With all the knowledge you have now and the right preparations on your side, you could even have survived it, its far from being uncounterable. How would you have counterd it ? ---
**Author:** ![Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anthony_fattony_amico/32/391106_2.png) [@Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anthony_FatTony_Amico)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2023, 10:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/jf-changes-cause-of-agro-with-the-new-lance/415814/22 "2023-08-13T22:10:06Z")
> [@imperial\_guard](#): > > With the new lancer changes you can agro now stuff in warp before it land on gates. YUP literally what CCP has said and that was their goal. Pretty historic. > [@imperial\_guard](#): > > This also means you can agro JF’s why they land in warp and because of magic and ccp they cant jump trough the gate so that other ppl can finish up the JF to kill. THAT’S CCP’S STATED GOAL! Glad you noticed. > [@imperial\_guard](#): > > Maybe a idea is to make JF’s not get a agro timer with the lance, i dont mind it getting hit but you should survive the lance and dock or jump. Why would CCP reverse their own decision to make a JF hunting ship?? > [@imperial\_guard](#): > > Now you cant do anything for 2 min when you are hit by it no matter where you are or what you do. Find friends to scout out for you. **(Also talk to experienced JF pilots to find out what they are doing to combat lancers!**) > [@imperial\_guard](#): > > I did not want to post stuff on the forum cause of toxic response of people but sure. Nope I just dropped some 100% truth bombs on you. CCP made a ship that specifically hunts JFs. Adapt or die. Literally! Call me toxic all you want but that’s the truth. If it helps you cope go for it. Lancers are _NOT_ going away anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![imperial\_guard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/imperial_guard/32/393075_2.png) [@imperial\_guard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/imperial_guard)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2023, 10:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/jf-changes-cause-of-agro-with-the-new-lance/415814/23 "2023-08-13T22:12:54Z")
Gues i was not expecting this from the lance update and totaly overlocked the OP ness of it. I still think alot of you are realy toxic why have a forum to talk about changes of the response is deal with the new stuff. If this is the new normal in eve usages it will requier me to realy change my game plan in how i use the witch i dont mind. ---
**Author:** ![imperial\_guard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/imperial_guard/32/393075_2.png) [@imperial\_guard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/imperial_guard)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2023, 10:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/jf-changes-cause-of-agro-with-the-new-lance/415814/24 "2023-08-13T22:18:19Z")
> [@Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](#): > > Nope I just dropped some 100% truth bombs on you. CCP made a ship that specifically hunts JFs. Adapt or die. Literally! You did and your way i totaly get rip that thing off XD I gues i dont realy know a way to counter this new meta atm bloody jf killers. Except from getting realy quet low sec or a station on grid with the jump gate witch you dont always have. ---
**Author:** ![Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anthony_fattony_amico/32/391106_2.png) [@Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anthony_FatTony_Amico)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2023, 10:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/jf-changes-cause-of-agro-with-the-new-lance/415814/25 "2023-08-13T22:20:56Z")
There are communities of jump freighter pilots out there. Try hauling channels, the established hauling corps, even just large NS corps with large logistics divisions. There is knowledge out there. Strength in numbers. > [@imperial\_guard](#): > > If this is the new normal in eve usages it will requier me to realy change my game plan in how i use the witch i dont mind. That’s awesome! 😁 ---
**Author:** ![imperial\_guard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/imperial_guard/32/393075_2.png) [@imperial\_guard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/imperial_guard)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2023, 10:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/jf-changes-cause-of-agro-with-the-new-lance/415814/26 "2023-08-13T22:40:21Z")
just in all faire ness they logged off a lance dread on the gate and while i was in warp they logged it in. So the only way you can get around this is like said in the biginning is to use a station on grid with the gate. I had the understanding that this lance was a tool for 0.0 and station combat to prevent caps from jumping out and ppl from docking up. Not allowing it to use a jump gate for ships is wow and realy a game changer. It just makes it realy op agents jf and transport ships in general to use a normal jump gate in low sec. Still think that aspect is crazy OP still if you cant counter that ship and makes bigger groups control even more power. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2023, 11:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/jf-changes-cause-of-agro-with-the-new-lance/415814/27 "2023-08-13T23:04:40Z")
> [@imperial\_guard](#): > > How would you have counterd it ? I would have used a ping bookmark at an odd angle to the gate, but still close enough that it appears to them that I would warp directly to the gate. You can easily make one by logging off a char right at the gate, your ship will do an emergency warp of 1 million km. Bookmark while rewarping after login and place an Alt there that can web you into warp again. Fit the JF for agility, you can get to below 14seconds with Shadow Serpentis Inertias and a EM-705. Now the following will happen: You undock, align to the gate and warp off. Their timer begins to tick, they will see you coming close on Dscan, they will refit (or log in), warmup and fire the lance at the exact moment they would hit you - if you would appear… but you simply don’t. They will check Dscan and you will be below 0.1 AU, but not at the gate. When you exit warp, you can still decide if you want to warp back to the station or to the gate, your Alt can web you into warp instantly, so even combat-probing you won’t help them. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 12:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/jf-changes-cause-of-agro-with-the-new-lance/415814/28 "2023-08-14T12:13:30Z")
> [@imperial\_guard](#): > > you can agro now stuff in warp before it land on gates. Have you never smartbombed before, or are you just this uninformed about the existing warping mechanics. > [@imperial\_guard](#): > > i dont mind it getting hit but but 22 posts later says you do mind it getting hit. You got 2 options: A) Counterplay or B) keep complaining on the forums. I’m not the smartest guy around but even I can tell only 1 of those 2 options puts JFs safely in high sec. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 5:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/jf-changes-cause-of-agro-with-the-new-lance/415814/29 "2023-08-15T17:02:57Z")
> [@imperial\_guard](#): > > With the new lancer changes you can agro now stuff in warp before it land on gates. Tell me you’ve never seen a Rooks and Kings video without telling me you’ve never seen a Rooks and Kings video. ---
**Author:** ![Audur\_Eigilsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/audur_eigilsdottir/32/388004_2.png) [@Audur\_Eigilsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Audur_Eigilsdottir)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2023, 5:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/jf-changes-cause-of-agro-with-the-new-lance/415814/30 "2023-09-22T17:31:11Z")
CCP told me pound sand as well. I just made a post about this. JF and logistics dead as we know it. You just have to go to other systems way out of the way or wait until they all log off for the day. This was a terrible idea. I have no problem with lancer dreds, but the inability to transit losec to hisec makes this part of the game essentially unplayable for many of us. Killing a JF is not even PVP… there is no skill in it anyway and now CCP has taken ALL the risk out for the PVP’ers…as usual. ---
**Author:** ![Audur\_Eigilsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/audur_eigilsdottir/32/388004_2.png) [@Audur\_Eigilsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Audur_Eigilsdottir)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2023, 5:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/jf-changes-cause-of-agro-with-the-new-lance/415814/31 "2023-09-22T17:33:40Z")
This does not work. The already book mark the gates and Lance the whole gate while you are in warp. When you show up you are engulfed and cannot jump. I have confirmed this with GMs at CCP. There is no counter other than to just not undock. ---
**Author:** ![Audur\_Eigilsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/audur_eigilsdottir/32/388004_2.png) [@Audur\_Eigilsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Audur_Eigilsdottir)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2023, 5:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/jf-changes-cause-of-agro-with-the-new-lance/415814/32 "2023-09-22T17:36:48Z")
Great…we are out a 14B JF + Cargo and they out an 8B dred…seems legit. Also, not everyone has a gigantic alliance just sitting around in BLOPS ships or supers to come out for a dred kill. This will affect logistics. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2023, 5:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/jf-changes-cause-of-agro-with-the-new-lance/415814/33 "2023-09-22T17:44:05Z")
Yeah, you know, don’t warp directly from the station (where they can SEE YOU UNDOCKING) to the gate, because they can time their Lance-shot exactly because they KNOW exactly how long a JF warps this distance. It’s not wizardry to time a well-aimed shot then. And it’s also not wizardry to avoid being caught in such a simple trap. ---
**Author:** ![Audur\_Eigilsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/audur_eigilsdottir/32/388004_2.png) [@Audur\_Eigilsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Audur_Eigilsdottir)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2023, 5:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/jf-changes-cause-of-agro-with-the-new-lance/415814/34 "2023-09-22T17:55:07Z")
I understand what you are saying and appreciate your response. I just do not agree with you. Depending on the system one uses this method is cumbersome and not always useful - especially in single station systems. Again, this was an unneeded game mechanic that no-one asked for, that serves no purpose other than to be sanctioned griefing by CCP. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2023, 6:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/jf-changes-cause-of-agro-with-the-new-lance/415814/35 "2023-09-22T18:39:52Z")
> [@Audur\_Eigilsdottir](#): > > Depending on the system one uses this method is cumbersome and not always useful - especially in single station systems. The number of stations does absolutely not matter. All you need is one Alt (you need that one anyway to open your cyno), a set of some well placed safespots and a plan. Thats nothing I would call ‘cumbersome’ when trying to move a 14B ship around. ---
**Author:** ![Audur\_Eigilsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/audur_eigilsdottir/32/388004_2.png) [@Audur\_Eigilsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Audur_Eigilsdottir)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2023, 6:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/jf-changes-cause-of-agro-with-the-new-lance/415814/36 "2023-09-22T18:49:46Z")
Truly appreciate the advice. Agree there are possible solutions (albeit less convenient and possibly dangerous as well - scanning is a “thing”) and appreciate those suggestions. All I can say is, while of course we will adapt (adapt or die) it’s my opinion (and that other JF pilots) that this mechanic was specifically designed to grief pilots who already exist in a very dangerous system where they are easily killed. Not asking anyone to agree just want the CSM to understand there are other opinions as well in this issue that are just as valid. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2023, 6:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/jf-changes-cause-of-agro-with-the-new-lance/415814/37 "2023-09-22T18:56:00Z")
> [@Audur\_Eigilsdottir](#): > > less convenient Isn’t a real argument, since there is no right to move such an expensive ship around ‘conveniently’. If you want to use it’s enourmous profit potential, at least some effort to avoid being caught seems pretty acceptable. > [@Audur\_Eigilsdottir](#): > > possibly dangerous Not an argument as well, since _any_ action in EVE online is and should be possibly dangerous. Also scanning is only an issue if you are slow. A JF can be webbed into warp instantly by your own Alt, so no matter how fast they scan, their tackler will always come too late if you are not sleeping. ---
**Author:** ![Audur\_Eigilsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/audur_eigilsdottir/32/388004_2.png) [@Audur\_Eigilsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Audur_Eigilsdottir)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2023, 7:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/jf-changes-cause-of-agro-with-the-new-lance/415814/38 "2023-09-22T19:02:12Z")
As noted before, all very good points (that have been thought of and are in use). Just noting that I simply do not agree with the mechanic as it pertains to JFs. I realize that is not popular opinion. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 7:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/jf-changes-cause-of-agro-with-the-new-lance/415814/39 "2023-12-21T19:02:44Z")
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