# July Release - Strategic Cruisers **URL:** \ **Category:** Upcoming Features & Changes\ **Tags:** july, ships\ **Created:** [July 3, 2017, 11:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414 "2017-07-03T11:21:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![Dior\_Ambraelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dior_ambraelle/32/393685_2.png) [@Dior\_Ambraelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dior_Ambraelle)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 6:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/674 "2017-07-11T18:31:47Z")
The Vexor not simply has too many hard points but they even animated just to make it even more obvious that you have empty space. Also, the Nightfire skin of the Tengu is almost identical to the Exoplanets skin, yet the former somehow looks infinitely better. How do you do this? ---
**Author:** ![Erebus\_TheChin\_Sundance](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/erebus_thechin_sundance/32/375165_2.png) [@Erebus\_TheChin\_Sundance](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Erebus_TheChin_Sundance)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 6:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/675 "2017-07-11T18:38:24Z")
I believe that would be working as intended then. What your demios can not do however is fit a cov opps cloak and casually swim through null/WH bubbles. I did a drone site last night on the test server, just to… um… test… Outgrowth Rogue Drone Hive, 20k less ehp than pre change fit, sig like a small yet obese whale, still did it without issues. Took a bit more dmg at times but tank still held. No DCU, one med rep. Don’t take it from me, some great advice from Confucius and bend like a duck in the rain man. :parrotdad: ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 6:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/676 "2017-07-11T18:40:10Z")
> [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > my pve proteus is outperformed by a deimos That’s what they want, below HACs. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 6:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/677 "2017-07-11T18:40:28Z")
in the trash it goes bye bye prote ---
**Author:** ![Jallukola](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jallukola/32/184701_2.png) [@Jallukola](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jallukola)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/678 "2017-07-11T18:47:36Z")
> [@CCP\_Lebowski](#): > > most telegraphed balances > [@CCP\_Lebowski](#): > > overall health of the meta So better ask a mere dozen nobodies only after their own interests? What a home run fam, what a home run. So that it’s huh? Because “b-b-b-but muh hac meta”? Meta is just a poor excuse trying to make others confrom to a mold cause one is too stupid or incompetent to overcome oneself. ---
**Author:** ![Erebus\_TheChin\_Sundance](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/erebus_thechin_sundance/32/375165_2.png) [@Erebus\_TheChin\_Sundance](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Erebus_TheChin_Sundance)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/679 "2017-07-11T19:31:16Z")
![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/2X/2/2073db00cf5affedcd2e12c08157cc71da5263c4.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Cade\_Windstalker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cade_windstalker/32/221037_2.png) [@Cade\_Windstalker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cade_Windstalker)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 7:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/680 "2017-07-11T19:32:49Z")
> [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > wont happen ccp already rose the bar too high when they rebalanced the pirate bses > they basically undid all their work on the tiericide up to that point At least for Null this isn’t true. The problem with using Pirate Battleships in Null fleet fights has always been supply, not cost. These sorts of fleets have been viable for years, they just haven’t been used because every time someone’s tried to make an actual doctrine out of something like this it’s run into a massive supply problem. If you physically can’t lay hands on enough hulls to supply your doctrine then you pretty much just lose. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > it wasnt because theyre op its because i could do pve in them and also play in my prefered pvp style of cloaky brawling > > … > > now it can do neither and im stuck having to train a macharial and a pilgrim so i can play the way i want to I’m going to suggest that you do some tests on the test server before jumping to this conclusion, since I’m still finding viable PvE fits (depending on what type of PvE you’re talking about results may vary) and the cloaky-brawling setup has, if anything, gotten a net buff out of all this. In other words test things yourself before listening to the whining and extracting something you haven’t even checked for viability. ---
**Author:** ![MPMOTCACEBEPA\_Bukandara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mpmotcacebepa_bukandara/32/7417_2.png) [@MPMOTCACEBEPA\_Bukandara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MPMOTCACEBEPA_Bukandara)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 7:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/681 "2017-07-11T19:34:32Z")
Why did not you give the rigs I already had so I could get the boat back, as I was, I have to buy rigs ---
**Author:** ![Cade\_Windstalker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cade_windstalker/32/221037_2.png) [@Cade\_Windstalker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cade_Windstalker)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 7:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/682 "2017-07-11T19:42:31Z")
> [@Dior\_Ambraelle](#): > > Why did this only take months, but the T3D (a much more simple ship) a year of conversation with the focus group? I know there was a few months hiatus, but still. > I would really like to know your opinion: don’t you think that this rebalance was rushed? Most of that year was hiatus. If you check the dates on the restart of the focus group it ran about 2 months vs this one’s 1.5 months. Also this one seems to have been significantly more active than the T3D focus group was. ---
**Author:** ![Cade\_Windstalker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cade_windstalker/32/221037_2.png) [@Cade\_Windstalker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cade_Windstalker)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/683 "2017-07-11T19:44:36Z")
> [@Jallukola](#): > > So better ask a mere dozen nobodies only after their own interests? What a home run fam, what a home run. > > So that it’s huh? Because “b-b-b-but muh hac meta”? Meta is just a poor excuse trying to make others confrom to a mold cause one is too stupid or incompetent to overcome oneself. Complaining that something got nerfed because it was overly dominant is a poor excuse for adapting to changes in game balance. There was no reason to use a HAC over a T3C before this change. That has nothing to do with people wanting the HAC meta back, it has to do with people wanting a reason to use a ship they otherwise quite like and have attachment to. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/684 "2017-07-11T19:47:30Z")
deimos outperforms in missions not sure how you figure cloaky has been buffed its lost nearly half its ehp with a buffer fit ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/685 "2017-07-11T19:52:27Z")
> [@Cade\_Windstalker](#): > > Complaining that something got nerfed because it was overly dominant maybe in 2012 meta changed a lot since then shame the vets never caught up and kept repeating same crap like a broken record because it was true back then must still be true now > [@Cade\_Windstalker](#): > > There was no reason to use a HAC over a T3C before this change. and is there a reason to now ---
**Author:** ![Ramius\_Decimus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramius_decimus/32/6151_2.png) [@Ramius\_Decimus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramius_Decimus)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/686 "2017-07-11T19:59:40Z")
Splendid retrofit; best Tengu-class iteration yet! 😃👍 Despite some new limitations (e.g. fitting options), the retrofit has opened up new mission profiles previously unfeasible for the class - finally a Caldari answer to the SOE line of starships. (_… figured some positive feedback was called for. Too many petulant inflexible players, undoubtedly taxing the developers’ morale…_ ) ---
**Author:** ![Cade\_Windstalker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cade_windstalker/32/221037_2.png) [@Cade\_Windstalker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cade_Windstalker)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/687 "2017-07-11T19:59:53Z")
> [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > deimos outperforms in missions > not sure how you figure cloaky has been buffed > its lost nearly half its ehp with a buffer fit And last I checked gained more than double the DPS of most old fits. If you’re in a buffer race with someone and you got a x2 to DPS in exchange for a roughly x2/3 to EHP then you’re going to win that buffer tank race _harder now_ than you did before. Same goes for if you’re local rep tanked and trying to break his tank before he breaks yours. As for missions I really don’t know what specifically you’re complaining about here since I don’t know what missions you’re doing and what about the Deimos you’re declaring better. The Proteus has worse resists now but a better local rep bonus as well as the same damage and falloff but with the addition of a tracking bonus as well as an extra turret which means it has 20% more DPS than a Deimos. That’s without factoring in the other two subsystems as well. If you’re not able to use it for missions then you’re probably trying to use it like the old Proteus or a Deimos as opposed to playing to the strengths of the hull as it is now. If you post a fit over in the PvE forums or the Fitting and Modules I’m betting the hive mind can figure something out, because just looking at the stats I’m pretty sure you can make this thing do L4s with a little bling and a little creativity. ---
**Author:** ![Cade\_Windstalker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cade_windstalker/32/221037_2.png) [@Cade\_Windstalker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cade_Windstalker)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 8:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/688 "2017-07-11T20:02:47Z")
> [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > maybe in 2012 > meta changed a lot since then > shame the vets never caught up and kept repeating same crap like a broken record > because it was true back then must still be true now It really was. There were plenty of discussions about this, plenty of theory crafting, and plenty of people who tried to make HACs work. They only thing I’ve seen that maybe sorta worked was “less intimidating T3Cs for getting fights when no one will fight our T3Cs”. If you don’t believe me take a look at the zKill stats just as a bellwether. The T3Cs have stayed plenty dominant. If anything they were _less_ of a problem in 2012 because they were more expensive and hadn’t exploded in popularity yet. > [@JC\_Mieyli](#): > > and is there a reason to now More of one than there was 12 hours ago, certainly. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/689 "2017-07-11T20:22:29Z")
> [@Cade\_Windstalker](#): > > And last I checked gained more than double the DPS of most old fits. um what… it gained like 200dps overheated for 2 minutes in exchange for 60k ehp thats like trying to kill a bs with a rifter > [@Cade\_Windstalker](#): > > Same goes for if you’re local rep tanked and trying to break his tank before he breaks yours. why would you go local rep youll be dead in one minute [quote=“Cade\_Windstalker, post:687, topic:8414”] The Proteus has worse resists now but a better local rep bonus as well as the same damage and falloff but with the addition of a tracking bonus as well as an extra turret which means it has 20% more DPS than a Deimos. That’s without factoring in the other two subsystems as well. [/quote] nope deimos has better tank way faster smaller better sig res better targeting proteus has faster align faster warp not much more dps like 25 dps more but when it comes down to it it still costs more and has the sp loss i guess if youre blitzing you might like the warp times ill admit thats very nice but its really the only thing that makes it stand out ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Vyper](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lord_vyper/32/10446_2.png) [@Lord\_Vyper](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lord_Vyper)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/690 "2017-07-11T21:04:13Z")
So I see you like to be on the wrong side. The community as a whole see’s this as a problem. And yes a properly click warp cloak is near impossible to interrupt without user error on the other side. There is no reliably repeatable way to counter them period. 400 man fleet sitting on gates with a full assortment of weapons and ships doesn’t even attempt to catch them because the likelihood is so incredibly low. You can disagree if you want but it’s factually correct. ---
**Author:** ![NextDarkKnight](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nextdarkknight/32/171101_2.png) [@NextDarkKnight](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/NextDarkKnight)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/691 "2017-07-11T21:37:47Z")
So … @CCP_Lebowski July 11th post downtime… now that you can’t put the %%it back into the horse… What is the real reason for the 4 sub systems? Did you need to peal off a sub system to make skinning work or did the art team not have enough resources and man power to do 5 sub systems plus come up with skins? ---
**Author:** ![Rek\_Seven](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rek_seven/32/281864_2.png) [@Rek\_Seven](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rek_Seven)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 10:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/692 "2017-07-11T22:21:11Z")
It in no longer correct. If you can’t decloak a nullified t3 in 9 seconds, you don’t deserve the kill ---
**Author:** ![Rek\_Seven](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rek_seven/32/281864_2.png) [@Rek\_Seven](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rek_Seven)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/693 "2017-07-11T22:26:02Z")
@CCP_Fozzie, are you considering allowing Tech 3 cruisers to refit and swap subs without a mobile depot? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414.md?page=33) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414.md?page=35)