# July Release - Strategic Cruisers **URL:** \ **Category:** Upcoming Features & Changes\ **Tags:** july, ships\ **Created:** [July 3, 2017, 11:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414 "2017-07-03T11:21:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Cade\_Windstalker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cade_windstalker/32/221037_2.png) [@Cade\_Windstalker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cade_Windstalker)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 1:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/714 "2017-07-12T13:29:14Z")
> [@Onictus](#): > > There is still no reason to use a HAC. What can I do with a HAC that I can’t do with a T1 CBC or ABC for a fraction of the price? Speed tank, for one, but I won’t pretend I’m psychically able to predict the meta. It’s quite possible this won’t improve the situation of HACs much, in which case I hope CCP buff them. They indicated at fanfest they were considering doing just that if the T3C changes didn’t help them much. > [@Onictus](#): > > With the exception of Ishtar, I can run some pretty high level PvE with Tar, in either armor or shield trim with more damage than EVERY other HAC, and all but a couple T3c builds. That’s kind of a problem with the Ishtar specifically and drone-boats in general. CCP indicated in the latest Carrier nerf threadnaught that they’re looking at changes to how drones interact with PvE. > [@Onictus](#): > > No reason to use a T3c at all anymore really. Between ammo subs and fits, its not worth it to try to carry around all of the crap you need to “do it all” if its even possible. Because things like Tengu eat up ammo, which was always an issue. I don’t think that’s the point, you keep a subsystem or two in your cargo if you’re swapping from travel to combat or to run different sites, but mostly people will keep their spare fits in a station or Citadel. Now they just don’t need six different rigged T3 hulls for their six different fits, they just need the different subsystems and rigs. > [@Onictus](#): > > So considering that a 250mil T2 Ishtar replaced a 2 BILLION isk pimped out Tengu as my site runner…about 4 years ago. I never did see the need for this nerf. Yes, because site running was clearly the extent of the problem T3C overperformance presented in the game… right. Well, everyone has their own little corner of the game I guess. > [@Onictus](#): > > Glad I have about 3 billion in useless hulls rotting away in various parts of the map. They will stay there. I’m sure myself or someone else will happily buy them off you at a discount! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 1:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/715 "2017-07-12T13:30:11Z")
> [@Cade\_Windstalker](#): > > First off, most missions don’t have neuts, and those that do aren’t really ideal to run in a Proteus anyways, at least not one fit like a Deimos. If you run drones you can keep out of neut range and it’s a moot point. youre getting confused we were talking about cloaky gank fit which is why i was talking about buffer tank you tried to argue that local reps would be better for ganking im not gonna be running level 4s with a cloak am i [quote=“Cade\_Windstalker, post:713, topic:8414”] This is just false. The Proteus gets bonuses to overheating and can overheat for longer. The only way a Deimos is out-tanking an overheating Proteus is if you’ve fail-fit the Proteus. [/quote]is there any other way to fit a proteus anymore [quote=“Cade\_Windstalker, post:713, topic:8414”] If you run Blasters you get the same disparity, and if you’re running a Blaster Deimos in a L4 mission you’re asking to lose it. [/quote]nope im talking about 250mm rails > [@Cade\_Windstalker](#): > > I’m not talking about PvP, we’re talking about Level 4 missions, which is what JC said they were trying to run. no im talking about 2 fits 1 for level 4s and 1 for cloaky ganking the 2 reasons i explained i trained proteus for in the first place i think youre confusing yourself so to clarify deimos is more suitable for level 4s than proteus proteus has a tiny bit more dps and better warp speed but deimos is stronger in every other area and is cheaper and doesnt cost sp if you die the thing you said where proteus doesnt have better warp speed shows you have fit the proteus wrong because you should be using the warp speed sub anyway if youre not using that then you lose a low slot so idk how you can even try to compete with a deimos without that lowslot for cloaky ganking you lose 60k ehp of buffer for a couple hundred dps overheated unless you go with active tank which is asking to die ---
**Author:** ![Onictus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/onictus/32/277200_2.png) [@Onictus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Onictus)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 1:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/716 "2017-07-12T13:50:53Z")
So again, why aren’t they more popular with a half-price tag, no skill point loss and whatnot. Oh yeah, damage application is questionable, tank is worse, sig is kinda nice. …and even at 50% you aint sig tanking with an MWD, if you are sig tanking you are to slow. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/717 "2017-07-12T16:50:53Z")
HAC use wont increase for PvE or PvP. This was a fail change that only hit PvE T3Cs. T2Cs wont replace them. Nor will T3Cs be replaced in PvP, thanks to Overheat bonuses for short engagements. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 7:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/718 "2017-07-12T19:05:57Z")
Apples and Oranges. Why one ship is or isn’t popular can be due to a number of reasons. From a PVE perspective people could talk things like: cap stability, range, moveability. Engageability, damage application, tactical options and current meta, could be topics for PVP focussed discussions. _Just as examples, which not nearly grasp either PVE or PVP fully._ Additionally people might be influenced by other peoples choices, be it unchecked hearsay or after the well reflected rational thought. On top of that it isn’t easy to measure their popularity purely in numbers from Zkill, because these numbers don’t tell us wether they are used heavily in large fleet doctrines or in a specific role with small gang warfare. Just because a ship doesn’t hit the Top 20 most used ships on Zkill it doesn’t mean it serves no purpose or _is broken_. Their class is called “Heavy Assault Cruiser”, which could insinuate one of two things: - them being _HEAVY (assault) CRUISERS_ in terms of advanced defensive capabilities - them being \_HEAVY ASSAULT (cruisers) \_ in terms of unusually high damage output Since we have 2 of each faction, you could say that one of them should always be the insane damage dealer with paper-like tank and the other a heavy brawler kind of ship with mediocre dps. It would seem that you can already fit them like this, but we all know DPS on paper doesn’t say much and almost the same for active tank stats alone. One way to go might be to - buff some of the “Damage HACs” damage application and (ever so slightly) agility - buff the “Defense HACs” capacitor and resistance to energy warfare (while possibly nerfing their damage output a bit) Since the Deimos, Cerberus, Vagabond, Ishtar, Vagabond and Sacrilege all being decently used, I can’t see the pressure to change anything more on them. Zealot and especially Muninn and Eagle could need some thought and or love in regards of fitting options. And that’s it. Continue to play. It feels like we are having more discussions about stats then actually trying things out 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Rek\_Seven](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rek_seven/32/281864_2.png) [@Rek\_Seven](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rek_Seven)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 7:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/719 "2017-07-12T19:06:02Z")
> [@Onictus](#): > > …and even at 50% you aint sig tanking with an MWD, if you are sig tanking you are to slow. To be fair, if Fozzie and Rise were not so stubborn about that bonus when they balanced HACs a while ago, there wouldn’t have been such an issue with that class of ship. A greater reduction to signature radius and a bonus to the speed of afterburners would have fixed HAC’s back then. ---
**Author:** ![Mar5hy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mar5hy/32/407968_2.png) [@Mar5hy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mar5hy)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/720 "2017-07-12T20:23:09Z")
The Nullified tengu needs better align time and one more mid slot. Then its possible for us to HK ---
**Author:** ![Erebus\_TheChin\_Sundance](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/erebus_thechin_sundance/32/375165_2.png) [@Erebus\_TheChin\_Sundance](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Erebus_TheChin_Sundance)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 8:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/721 "2017-07-12T20:55:14Z")
Now they are a touch more limp-wristed, what are the chances of lifting the T3C restrictions for the lower DED sites? Maybe down to 3/10’s. ---
**Author:** ![Specia1\_K](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/specia1_k/32/245286_2.png) [@Specia1\_K](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Specia1_K)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2017, 11:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/722 "2017-07-12T23:46:51Z")
For sites you can do with a frigate? nah. 5/10 is as low as I would think reasonable for T3C. ---
**Author:** ![Rumi\_Shanti](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rumi_shanti/32/409460_2.png) [@Rumi\_Shanti](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rumi_Shanti)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 1:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/723 "2017-07-13T01:17:15Z")
Yes, this would be an absolute must for solo. The new Tengu is very obviously a ship made to be flown in droves now, but for the sake of others please allow these to do lower DEDs. ---
**Author:** ![Rumi\_Shanti](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rumi_shanti/32/409460_2.png) [@Rumi\_Shanti](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rumi_Shanti)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 1:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/724 "2017-07-13T01:32:50Z")
So the actual subsystems in our hangars we lost -no reimburse. I cannot found any trace… searching “Tengu” returns nothing. My net worth dropped 2B instantly after re-balance. So the loose subsystems in hangers, destroyed, and the ones in the ship or ship cargo hold are kept but converted. In all 8000 SP reimbursed. Doesn’t seem right to me. Would there have been another form of compensation I didn’t see? The subsystems I had in hangars were quite an investment. Not like critically huge ISK but some money none the less. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 1:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/725 "2017-07-13T01:33:42Z")
subsystem prices were reset… nothing was created, nothing was transformed, all was changed ---
**Author:** ![Rumi\_Shanti](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rumi_shanti/32/409460_2.png) [@Rumi\_Shanti](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rumi_Shanti)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 1:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/726 "2017-07-13T01:35:42Z")
I dont understand how you get the DPS to do these reasonably in a Tengu lol it is just not the ship for this task now. Gila actually works fairly well, and i have a sorta permatank that can run 5/10 and below and laugh through it… ---
**Author:** ![Rowells](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rowells/32/141343_2.png) [@Rowells](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rowells)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 3:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/727 "2017-07-13T03:35:16Z")
You realize you are making no sense right? Literally saying it was added but that means it was removed. And again, the reduction in effectiveness only applies to a certain area of cases. Beyond that, every other case is a net gain. ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stuff](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ponder_stuff/32/7685_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stuff](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ponder_Stuff)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 5:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/728 "2017-07-13T05:34:08Z")
Its broken the HK pretty badly, still cant fix it fully. ---
**Author:** ![Specia1\_K](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/specia1_k/32/245286_2.png) [@Specia1\_K](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Specia1_K)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 6:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/729 "2017-07-13T06:08:27Z")
I do 4/10 and under with a T2 or faction frigate. T3Ds do even better and can salvage the T2 wrecks as a bonus. Why do you need to take a T3C in those lower DED sites? 650dps with heavies or rapids, 850+ with hams. How much dps do you need? ---
**Author:** ![Rek\_Seven](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rek_seven/32/281864_2.png) [@Rek\_Seven](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rek_Seven)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 6:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/730 "2017-07-13T06:22:39Z")
I don’t get why you are finding it so difficult to understand, and I can’t explain it any simpler than I have done. If you can’t be bothered to read and comprehend my explanation, don’t just keep arguing for no reason. Go and compare the subsystems now with how they were before and prove to us that the tengus ability to land quickly on grid, has not been removed (or a least, nerfed to the point of uselessness). The proteus is the only ship that retains the same ability to warp fast, without having it’s align time nerfed into the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 6:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/731 "2017-07-13T06:42:47Z")
> [@Specia1\_K](#): > > I do 4/10 and under with a T2 or faction frigate. T3Ds do even better and can salvage the T2 wrecks as a bonus. > > Why do you need to take a T3C in those lower DED sites? 650dps with heavies or rapids, 850+ with hams. How much dps do you need? If faction cruisers can enter those sites why not T3C? They have similar dps and tank now. ---
**Author:** ![Blazemonger](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/blazemonger/32/398448_2.png) [@Blazemonger](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Blazemonger)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 6:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/732 "2017-07-13T06:50:12Z")
> [@Ponder\_Stuff](#): > > Its broken the HK pretty badly, still cant fix it fully. Oh dear… is your ‘Drop 4 BLOPs on non combatants for an easy risk free kill’ gang broken now? 😏 ---
**Author:** ![Blazemonger](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/blazemonger/32/398448_2.png) [@Blazemonger](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Blazemonger)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2017, 6:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/733 "2017-07-13T06:56:28Z")
Right, so I am slightly more relaxed after running a Standard Sleeper Cache in my new Tengu Fit. Still not too happy with the need to do a considerable refit in space when in red NULL but at least the tank holds running the site using the shortcut. It was quite obvious the lower resists do impact quite a bit but the tank held comfortably and we’re cap stable which is good and I can even run a +20 coherence rig with a T1 Cap Control rig. Having 165 coherence obviously gives a good bit of headroom… Hope to find myself a Superior today or tomorrow to try… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414.md?page=35) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414.md?page=37)