# July Release - Strategic Cruisers **URL:** \ **Category:** Upcoming Features & Changes\ **Tags:** july, ships\ **Created:** [July 3, 2017, 11:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414 "2017-07-03T11:21:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 44
**Author:** ![Cade\_Windstalker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cade_windstalker/32/221037_2.png) [@Cade\_Windstalker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cade_Windstalker)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 6:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/874 "2017-08-22T18:57:03Z")
> [@elitatwo](#): > > Cade, > > I just field tested the logi-gu and I have to say she is pretty awesome! Rep amount looks okay to me, I just need to settle on a fit. Yup, the one thing you have to watch out for is how much damage they take now. The sig radius changes along with the tank drop are no joke, so you have to be careful how you use the things. ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 2:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/875 "2017-08-23T02:11:55Z")
Cade, yeah I noticed but as luck would have it, the shield booster defense sub allows you to take some punishment along the way. And now even range is your new friend. If I guess this right, the rep power is a littler over a scimitar with 4x large t2 remote shield boosters, well with heat but who doesn’t want to use heat on a t3. If the guestimator is correct, the tengu is a 400m logi. ---
**Author:** ![Wanda\_Fayne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wanda_fayne/32/377654_2.png) [@Wanda\_Fayne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wanda_Fayne)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 5:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/876 "2017-08-23T05:11:07Z")
Just over 500M. 53k EHP. Reps 305hp/s with burst (323 with drones) cold [Tengu, LogiX] Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Damage Control II 10MN Afterburner II Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender Adaptive Invulnerability Field II EM Ward Field II Medium Remote Shield Booster II Medium Remote Shield Booster II Medium Remote Shield Booster II Shield Command Burst II, Active Shielding Charge Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Medium Remote Shield Booster II Medium Remote Shield Booster II Medium Remote Shield Booster II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Tengu Core - Augmented Graviton Reactor Tengu Defensive - Covert Reconfiguration Tengu Offensive - Support Processor Tengu Propulsion - Chassis Optimization Hobgoblin II x5 Light Shield Maintenance Bot II x5 Active Shielding Charge x300 edit. This also works with the Nullifier subsys, if you drop one shield extender. Upgrade to Gistum A-Type Medium Remote Shield Boosters to get 407hp/s (425 with drones) cold. ---
**Author:** ![Cade\_Windstalker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cade_windstalker/32/221037_2.png) [@Cade\_Windstalker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cade_Windstalker)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 2:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/877 "2017-08-23T14:05:34Z")
> [@elitatwo](#): > > Cade, > > yeah I noticed but as luck would have it, the shield booster defense sub allows you to take some punishment along the way. And now even range is your new friend. If I guess this right, the rep power is a littler over a scimitar with 4x large t2 remote shield boosters, well with heat but who doesn’t want to use heat on a t3. > > If the guestimator is correct, the tengu is a 400m logi. Yup! You can actually get way more than a Scimi with Deadspace reppers but that gets pricey pretty quickly. On a ~350m hull though it could be considered worthwhile 🙂 I’m kinda half wondering if we’re not going to see a shortage of these reppers soon… ---
**Author:** ![Rek\_Seven](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rek_seven/32/281864_2.png) [@Rek\_Seven](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rek_Seven)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 8:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/878 "2017-08-25T08:11:28Z")
On the subject of the Proteus being the weakest, I agree completely. What makes all other T3C’s stronger is their ability to use a high damage, capless weapon system, in the form of HAMs, which can be overheated to achieve a dps surpassing or approaching 1k The Proteus does not have this option. The drone subsystem allows you to achieve around 675 dps with drones and around 300 dps with hybrids. However, both these weapon systems can be neutralised with neut pressure and destroying drones. Furthermore, on paper the Protues may be able to achieve the highest dps with blasters but this is counteracted with severely limited damage projection. In almost all cases, it would be better to use a different T3 that uses HAMs. At the end of the day the Loki is the best T3. This is not due to it being OP, it’s down to the fact that the others (mainly the proteus and tengu) having limitations/weaknesses, in the form of the Tengu’s kinetic damage lock and the Proteus’ weaknesses mentioned above. ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 12:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/879 "2017-08-25T12:23:45Z")
> [@Rek\_Seven](#): > > The Proteus does not have this option. The drone subsystem allows you to achieve around 675 dps with drones and around 300 dps with hybrids. However, both these weapon systems can be neutralised with neut pressure and destroying drones. Fit cap booster and murder them. ---
**Author:** ![Wander\_Prian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wander_prian/32/394208_2.png) [@Wander\_Prian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wander_Prian)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 1:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/880 "2017-08-25T13:46:34Z")
You haven’t flown much in w-space tech 3 -fleets have you? You would be capped out even with a cap booster fitted. ---
**Author:** ![Cade\_Windstalker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cade_windstalker/32/221037_2.png) [@Cade\_Windstalker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cade_Windstalker)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/881 "2017-08-25T15:20:44Z")
That’s only one use-case though. The Proteus has pretty good DPS with Blasters and Drones and not every use-case, even for PvP, requires capless weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Rek\_Seven](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rek_seven/32/281864_2.png) [@Rek\_Seven](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rek_Seven)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/882 "2017-08-25T15:51:32Z")
> [@Cade\_Windstalker](#): > > The Proteus has pretty good DPS with Blasters and Drones and not every use-case, even for PvP, requires capless weapons. > [@Rek\_Seven](#): > > The Proteus does not have this option. The drone subsystem allows you to achieve around 675 dps with drones and around 300 dps with hybrids. However, both these weapon systems can be neutralised with neut pressure and destroying drones. When you have to be within 5k to apply your damage and then fit a cap booster to protect against having that damage switched off, it’s better to just go with HAMs. ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 4:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/883 "2017-08-25T16:08:15Z")
Use railguns and win? Oh wait it w-space. So the following happens. w-space blobb 1 enters the new static(s). Static one is empty, so they probe and take a look. w-space group 2 is from east-east-east europe and not very good. W-space group one flies to an exit wh. 89373895678926479126479356924568956935 proteus decloak and make them regret probing that day. ---
**Author:** ![Cade\_Windstalker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cade_windstalker/32/221037_2.png) [@Cade\_Windstalker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cade_Windstalker)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/884 "2017-08-25T17:29:30Z")
> [@Rek\_Seven](#): > > When you have to be within 5k to apply your damage and then fit a cap booster to protect against having that damage switched off, it’s better to just go with HAMs. Again, not every combat situation has neuting as a serious issue, in others you fit a cap booster anyways. Also Blasters aren’t the only option, you can also run Rails which have pretty decent range and DPS themselves. Not every hull needs to be amazing or even equally usable in ever situation. I feel like you’re overly focused on the one situation that applies to you and then complaining about things that were true even before the T3 rework. The Proteus’ guns have always used cap, drones have always been able to be destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![Rek\_Seven](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rek_seven/32/281864_2.png) [@Rek\_Seven](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rek_Seven)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 1:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/885 "2017-08-31T13:51:21Z")
> [@Cade\_Windstalker](#): > > The Proteus’ guns have always used cap, drones have always been able to be destroyed. True but that was not my point! I was attempting to point out why the Proteus can be considered to be the weakest option. Yes, you “can” fit a cap booster by sacrificing a mid slot… my point was that the other ships don’t need to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Cade\_Windstalker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cade_windstalker/32/221037_2.png) [@Cade\_Windstalker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cade_Windstalker)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 5:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/886 "2017-09-02T05:26:18Z")
> [@Rek\_Seven](#): > > True but that was not my point! > > I was attempting to point out why the Proteus can be considered to be the weakest option. Yes, you “can” fit a cap booster by sacrificing a mid slot… my point was that the other ships don’t need to do that. To run their guns under neut pressure. They still need to depending on fit and situation, just like the Proteus doesn’t always have to fit a cap booster to be effective either. _My_ point was that “blasters use cap and drones can be killed” isn’t really a particularly good argument. It’s incredibly narrow and completely ignores all the times in the last ten years where a drone or hybrid boat has found itself top of the meta for one reason or another. _If_ the Proteus is weak it’s not because of its weapon options. Also, looking at the kill/death stats on zKill, it’s not looking particularly weak. The Loki looks like it’s over performing by a fair margin, but the other three are all within a pretty close grouping of usage with the Tengu and the Proteus about even and the Legion very slightly below them, so the Proteus is probably fine. ---
**Author:** ![Rek\_Seven](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rek_seven/32/281864_2.png) [@Rek\_Seven](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rek_Seven)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 8:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/887 "2017-09-04T08:38:15Z")
> [@Cade\_Windstalker](#): > > My point was that “blasters use cap and drones can be killed” isn’t really a particularly good argument. It’s incredibly narrow… It’s not really though is it?! I didn’t say blasters and drones have always been poor… I simply said that, post-patch, the Proteus’ weapon system options are not as good as the other T3C. Just because blasters are good for ganking and sentry drones used to be really good on the ishtar, doesn’t mean the proteus has weapons systems that compete with the other T3C’s, which is the point I think you are trying to make. ---
**Author:** ![Frostys\_Virpio](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/frostys_virpio/32/12703_2.png) [@Frostys\_Virpio](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Frostys_Virpio)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/888 "2017-09-04T20:23:30Z")
> [@Rek\_Seven](#): > > I simply said that, post-patch, the Proteus’ weapon system options are not as good as the other T3C. It’s not about the weapon system. They had the same weapon system pre-patch and were used as mainline doctrine by many corp/alliances. The total package is sub-par but that’s not because of hybrids or drones fault. ---
**Author:** ![Rowells](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rowells/32/141343_2.png) [@Rowells](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rowells)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 4:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/889 "2017-09-05T16:29:04Z")
I’m in somewhat of an agreement that the new proteus is underwhelming. I’ve heard a few success stories on it, however when I look at it comparitvely to other ships with similar purpose/roles, it seems lacking. It’s a bit difficult to balance in that regard as well, since it used to be so popular and we’re trying to avoid too much overlap between the races. For the most part I believe it could use a little more base speed and possibly a bit more PG on certain subs. Also seconding that it’s not so much the weapons as the platform they are on that now lacks. ---
**Author:** ![Cade\_Windstalker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cade_windstalker/32/221037_2.png) [@Cade\_Windstalker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cade_Windstalker)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2017, 9:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/890 "2017-09-05T21:21:27Z")
> [@Rek\_Seven](#): > > It’s not really though is it?! I didn’t say blasters and drones have always been poor… I simply said that, post-patch, the Proteus’ weapon system options are not as good as the other T3C. You’ve kinda cropped out the other half of my point there as well as my point about it not actually seeming to be particularly weak. As I said, if the Proteus is weak it’s not because of the weapon options it gets, plain and simple. Every weapon has trade offs and things you can do to offset those trade offs. That’s the same for Missiles, Projectiles, Drones, Hybrids, and Lasers. > [@Rek\_Seven](#): > > Just because blasters are good for ganking and sentry drones used to be really good on the ishtar, doesn’t mean the proteus has weapons systems that compete with the other T3C’s, which is the point I think you are trying to make. No, my point is that the weapons aren’t actually bad they’re just different and they have different trade offs. Maybe those mean those weapons don’t work well for your particular set of use-cases, but it doesn’t mean the boat or the weapons as a whole are weak or bad. Unofficial motto of Eve balancing: Your use-case is not the only use-case. > [@Frostys\_Virpio](#): > > It’s not about the weapon system. They had the same weapon system pre-patch and were used as mainline doctrine by many corp/alliances. The total package is sub-par but that’s not because of hybrids or drones fault. Also this, except there’s not much evidence available that it’s actually under performing or being used less than the other two that aren’t the Loki post-patch. ---
**Author:** ![Rek\_Seven](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rek_seven/32/281864_2.png) [@Rek\_Seven](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rek_Seven)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2017, 11:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/891 "2017-09-06T11:12:00Z")
Incorrect. The loki did not have a good subsystem for HAMs like is does now. ---
**Author:** ![Rek\_Seven](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rek_seven/32/281864_2.png) [@Rek\_Seven](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rek_Seven)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2017, 11:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/892 "2017-09-06T11:26:45Z")
> [@Cade\_Windstalker](#): > > No, my point is that the weapons aren’t actually bad they’re just different and they have different trade offs. Maybe those mean those weapons don’t work well for your particular set of use-cases, but it doesn’t mean the boat or the weapons as a whole are weak or bad. I get what you are saying and i agree that not every T3 has to be good in all areas but honestly, what is the Proteus good at now? It used to be good because it could deal 1k plus dps at close range… but now all the others can do that while being 20k away from the target! i.e in neut, and scram range. When mentioning zkillboard stats I think you are misinterpreting me saying “the Proteus is weaker than the rest” as saying “the Proteus is ■■■■ and nobody is flying it”. ---
**Author:** ![Rek\_Seven](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rek_seven/32/281864_2.png) [@Rek\_Seven](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rek_Seven)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2017, 11:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414/893 "2017-09-06T11:40:17Z")
Instead of arguing whether the Proteus is weaker or not, i’ll just state what i feel CCP should have done to give the Proteus the same capless weapon advantages as the others, as it’s pretty simple! Increase drone damage (or allow it to use 5 heavy drones) and hit-points on the drone sub and then remove the turret bones. This would give it the same pre-oveheated damage as a T3 using HAMs and the trade off for not being able to overheat would be the damage projection (e.g. drone control range). [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414.md?page=43) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/july-release-strategic-cruisers/8414.md?page=45)