# Keeping PvE players in EVE **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 13, 2021, 9:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/keeping-pve-players-in-eve/305455 "2021-04-13T21:53:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Dark\_Lord\_Trump](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_lord_trump/32/411482_2.png) [@Dark\_Lord\_Trump](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Lord_Trump)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2021, 1:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/keeping-pve-players-in-eve/305455/475 "2021-06-01T01:52:53Z")
You didn’t seem to read what I said, but whatever. > [@Aaron](#): > > Pve players are the ones who purchase items from the market which gives ship builders a reason to play. So do PvP players. > [@Aaron](#): > > and there would be no player for the pvp’er to target. Except for the players who are doing PvE because as you said, isk doesn’t just appear in our wallets. Since you apparently only trained Reading Comprehension to I, I’ll explain it once more: any player that only does PvE does not produce anything that a player that does both PvE and PvP cannot produce. Exclusive-PvE players tend to produce lots of whine when they get ganked as well. I doubt the same is true for players that do both. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2021, 1:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/keeping-pve-players-in-eve/305455/476 "2021-06-01T01:57:50Z")
> [@Dark\_Lord\_Trump](#): > > Since you apparently only trained Reading Comprehension to I, I’ll explain it once more: any player that only does PvE does not produce anything that a player that does both PvE and PvP cannot produce. Exclusive-PvE players tend to produce lots of whine when they get ganked as well. I doubt the same is true for players that do both. So now you’re trying to tell me a pvp player hauls billions of value and loses it to a gank? Have you checked zkill recently? A player that exclusively does pve only brings 1000s of pvp opportunities to the game on a daily basis. I’m not sure why you’re arguing a point which can easily be disproved by going on zkill. Edit: You should be able to agree that the zkill record below is a pve player; > **[nolan Amaris | Character](https://zkillboard.com/character/2114871526/)** > > nolan Amaris: 2 ships destroyed and 341 ships lost. He seems to do lots of hauling and has lost many haulers and sometimes loot. Surely you can see by just going about his business hauling his assets he has provided pvp players with fun and some loot. I know your response will be: “but a pvp’er can provide that opportunity” You would be right but we still need 1000s of this type of player to make the game work. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Lord\_Trump](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_lord_trump/32/411482_2.png) [@Dark\_Lord\_Trump](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Lord_Trump)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2021, 2:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/keeping-pve-players-in-eve/305455/477 "2021-06-01T02:02:41Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > a pvp player hauls billions of value and loses it to a gank? How exactly are you determining that these players exclusively do PvE? How do you know they’re not alts of a PvPer, or a char that does both? ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2021, 2:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/keeping-pve-players-in-eve/305455/478 "2021-06-01T02:07:38Z")
Because they would know better. ---
**Author:** ![Nascent3ch0](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nascent3ch0/32/374213_2.png) [@Nascent3ch0](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nascent3ch0)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2021, 2:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/keeping-pve-players-in-eve/305455/479 "2021-06-01T02:22:30Z")
Always love a good reference to Aritcio Kor-Azor ---
**Author:** ![xavier69](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xavier69/32/497798_2.png) [@xavier69](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/xavier69)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 11:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/keeping-pve-players-in-eve/305455/482 "2021-06-02T23:23:30Z")
This sums up the train wreck eve has become anyone who thinks this game is still good is a total dumb@ss. > **[Why EVE or CCP Games Needs to Fail - INN](https://imperium.news/why-eve-or-ccp-games-needs-to-fail/)** > > (Editor’s Note: The opinions and speculations in this piece are entirely those of the author, and do not represent the position of INN.) Why? Why would someone want a game to fail that they have played for almost two decades?... ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 2:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/keeping-pve-players-in-eve/305455/483 "2021-06-03T14:13:06Z")
Why are you still here if this game is so bad? Why not just leave and have nothing more to do with Eve? It is in-fact you who is the total dumb@ss for posting on Eve forums when it is clear you dislike the game. Stop trying to convince people to think the way you do and just go away. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 3:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/keeping-pve-players-in-eve/305455/484 "2021-06-03T15:42:39Z")
![gamehatesomuch](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/d/0/7/d0706d1c9af5ed8e99e8850d085e8332452c3ccf.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Bonny\_Lee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bonny_lee/32/248223_2.png) [@Bonny\_Lee](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bonny_Lee)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 4:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/keeping-pve-players-in-eve/305455/485 "2021-06-03T16:12:39Z")
Im fine with every player who only wants to pve if those player are ok with eve being a place where pvp can be anywhere and noone is safe if he isnt being careful. But im for example against making highsec any safer then it is or implementing more “Instanced” pve because this kind of playstyle has its place in wow or a themepark but not eve. Player who want to have more of that stuff should change to those games or just look for a singleplayer. ---
**Author:** ![A\_lan\_Wolf](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/a_lan_wolf/32/271710_2.png) [@A\_lan\_Wolf](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/A_lan_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 2:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/keeping-pve-players-in-eve/305455/486 "2021-06-04T02:32:34Z")
considering what they have done and continue to do, they really do not care about the PVE player, or the solo player. Seems they only care about the ganker or pvp corp player or more likely both, but the PVE player can go hang as far as CCCP are concerned. Their attitudes regarding this is why quite frankly i think they should remove high sec from the game, then see what happens…i imagine a loss of revenue for the company then maybe they would wake up and stop dumping on those players ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 3:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/keeping-pve-players-in-eve/305455/487 "2021-06-04T03:47:47Z")
> [@A\_lan\_Wolf](#): > > considering what they have done and continue to do, they really do not care about the PVE player, or the solo player. Seems they only care about the ganker or pvp corp player or more likely both, but the PVE player can go hang as far as CCCP are concerned. What you’re saying here is simply not true, and here is why. Eve has many aspects of PVE, if you take the time to compare this to other games on the market you will actually find Eve is one of the top games for PVE content. Please feel absolutely free to show me that this is not the case. Incursions Mission running Ratting Combat Sites Relic & Data Sites Mining And Industry Triglavian Space Planetary Interaction The aspects I’ve listed above are some of the things you can do in Eve for PVE, If you compare this to other games you’ll find only a handful are as content rich as Eve. Now, you say that CCP doesn’t care about the PVE or the Solo guy, speaking from a solo guy’s perspective I strongly disagree with you and believe I have everything I need to earn lots and lots of isk from PVE operations regardless of if I’m being pursued by enemies. I live in Stain which is NPC 0.0, I can agree the PVE down here is different from that of hi-sec due to Stain being pretty empty. My issue with your statements is that many of you choose to stay in hi-sec without experiencing anything else, from my perspective I would say that it is you who doesn’t care about your game because you’ve set yourself up for a rigid gameplay style. Be nice to yourself, train an alt and join a wormhole corp, train another alt and join a null sec NPC/Sov corp have a look at the PVE in these areas of space and revise your opinion. I get that recent changes have made things more difficult and there are complaints of markets being bare, from my perspective this just makes this game more of a challenge and only the best gamers in the world will stay and take on that challenge, this is still good gameplay to me. If it is suddenly harder to replace ships then the skill level of pilots should go up and they must learn techniques to ensure they don’t lose a ship. Get into a community, share intel about gank hotspots, if it gets too hot switch to an alt and pve somewhere else for a couple of days. Learn how to box clever. When one subscribes to Eve you must understand that you are playing a game which is set in a dark, relentless, unforgiving, hard, apathetic and dystopian type of world, pretty much what you’ve been seeing in sci-fi films all your life. ---
**Author:** ![May\_Q\_Cry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/may_q_cry/32/370362_2.png) [@May\_Q\_Cry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/May_Q_Cry)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 5:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/keeping-pve-players-in-eve/305455/488 "2021-06-04T05:20:35Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > I get that recent changes have made things more difficult and there are complaints of markets being bare, from my perspective this just makes this game more of a challenge I see you have bought into CCP’s idea that by making everything worse they are actually making it better. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 6:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/keeping-pve-players-in-eve/305455/489 "2021-06-04T06:16:18Z")
> [@hellokittyonline](#): > > We dont actually need PvEers at all. PvPers and their alts were completely self sufficient long before the plague of carebears we have now were ever on this server. > > Sure we need some forms of PvE because of exclusively attainable goods but we do not actually need PvEers as a community. If all you ever do is PvE and you do not participate in ship destruction the community couldnt care less if you were here and would go completely unaffected if you and many others line you left. > > Actually I take that back, they’d be effected greatly because Eve would be a much better game. Hahaha, what a load of BS… ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 7:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/keeping-pve-players-in-eve/305455/490 "2021-06-04T07:50:47Z")
While I don’t disagree with your reply what I would point out that it has been made easier and easier for hunters, one of the most important is the warp speed change so tackle can get point a lot easier, when I went to Stain in 2010 every ship warped at the same slow speed so the D-scan was actually useful for evasion. Now it is not. That is one change that changed the balance towards hunters a lot. Another change was the removal of the -25% ROF penalty on destroyers that made ganking stupidly cheap with no corresponding increase in the tank of mining ships for two and a half years. It was a catastrophe for hisec miners at the time and many left the game, their loss was hidden by the many new players who came in because of the big battles in the news. What I saw over time were many changes to make it easier and easier to catch people, so in a way it made only the toughest people like yourself able to handle this, but while it is a good challenge it is not for everyone. As for myself, I just got tired at the balance making it too easy to hunt and decided among many things to spend my gaming time elsewhere. To be honest I am keeping away from MMO’s because I find so many players are just toxic as hell. Currently I am really enjoying Horizon Zero Dawn, and before that Cyberpunk 2077, and my favourite Middle Earth Shadow of War. I play these games on absolute hardest settings and I get a lot more fun from them, then Eve at this point. If you are a hunter in Eve you have it easy to get your thrills, the only issue is the lack of prey, wonder why that is happening, well I don’t wonder, I know why. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 2:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/keeping-pve-players-in-eve/305455/491 "2021-06-04T14:00:44Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > While I don’t disagree with your reply what I would point out that it has been made easier and easier for hunters, one of the most important is the warp speed change so tackle can get point a lot easier, when I went to Stain in 2010 every ship warped at the same slow speed so the D-scan was actually useful for evasion. Now it is not. That is one change that changed the balance towards hunters a lot. Yes I hear you on this point and can agree it has made things difficult, the only real solution is not to travel when there is a known gank scout or camp on the gate, this can be a pain for the people who have used only one of their 3 character slots, I tend to avoid things like this by switching to another alt and doing pve elsewhere. I can accept this won’t be ideal for some. Is it align time you speak of? In Stain I will only pve in empty systems so the moment anyone comes in I get aligned, I then have my destination pre selected on the menu so the same second the hunter shows up on overview I click warp. I actually don’t check d-scan. If they haven’t left system and they are not on my overview after about 10 seconds I warp safe anyway and cloak and wait. I also try to change the warp in point of the combat site, so I will go in there with a cloaky alt first and slowboat to 150 km below the combat site, create a corp bookmark and then log with my pve alt and do the site. If a hunter warps in from any gate I will be a good 100km away from their warp in point which will buy me even more time to get my lovely pve ship out safely. So even with a change to align time it is still possible to adopt playstyles to counter it, they just take a little more work. I get that this might not work in hisec so well as there are lots of people around, it would only work if you have set the corp red beforehand and you’re aware they are hunters which involves working with people and gaining intel which some of us don’t want to do. Also we can’t ignore the fact many have a rigid play style, many folk could have come to Stain over the years and earned a fortune from all the empty systems, They just needed to be ready to cloak their pvp ship in an empty system with no station and then make billions when the system is empty, they could use alts in cheap ships to ferry ammo. I think all of this just boils down to how prepared people are to come out of their comfort zone and have a look at different playstyles. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Currently I am really enjoying Horizon Zero Dawn, and before that Cyberpunk 2077, and my favourite Middle Earth Shadow of War. > > I play these games on absolute hardest settings and I get a lot more fun from them, then Eve at this point. I’m also playing Elite Dangerous with the new Odyssey patch which features first person shooter mode, There was lots of negative feedback at launch, I think it is a good addition and a great start, they got lots to iron out but I think £30 is well spent for the update. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 9:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/keeping-pve-players-in-eve/305455/492 "2021-06-04T21:19:53Z")
I am just saying the previously it was actually pretty good fun to rat in a system with others there if you knew what you were doing and knew just what the other people could fly. When they nerfed the Drakes range and then put long range point bonuses on the interceptors it was another push to easy kills. Far as I am concerned this desperate need to give kills to player killers hurt the game. You see due to this your gameplay has been reduced because you have to rat in an empty system, it just makes AFK cloaky camping even more powerful. I say this as I used to rat in UF-KKH with enemies in system, because I knew what they could do and had everything planned out, but I could not do that now, the fun I had playing with them as they tried to get me was great, they got me a few times, but they had to really work for it. But now, it is just cloak up because it is too easy to be caught. Though I did rather like using two beam confessors with twin props to do small ship belt ratting to keep the ADM up with hostiles in system. But it is not the same. And this is why Eve is just not a good game any more for people doing PvE and being hard to kill because you spend most of your time cloaked up and all they do is leave afk cloaky campers in the systems you normally rat in. It is just gone as game play… ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 9:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/keeping-pve-players-in-eve/305455/494 "2021-06-04T21:29:15Z")
Calm down ganker(s) ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 10:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/keeping-pve-players-in-eve/305455/495 "2021-06-04T22:00:42Z")
You’ve been ‘quitting’ for years. Just do it already. ⬇ There’s the door! ⏬ 🚪 ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 10:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/keeping-pve-players-in-eve/305455/496 "2021-06-04T22:25:04Z")
Does never undocking count? ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2021, 6:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/keeping-pve-players-in-eve/305455/497 "2021-06-05T06:11:43Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > You see due to this your gameplay has been reduced because you have to rat in an empty system, it just makes AFK cloaky camping even more powerful. I say this as I used to rat in UF-KKH with enemies in system, because I knew what they could do and had everything planned out, but I could not do that now, the fun I had playing with them as they tried to get me was great, they got me a few times, but they had to really work for it. But now, it is just cloak up because it is too easy to be caught. To be 100% honest anytime I have used a proper pve ship, we’re talking battleship class, 1 Billion isk + value it has always been in an empty system or a system with 5 or 6 blues, using the same method mentioned in my previous post. I disagree that the change you mentioned reduced my gameplay, if I check it myself and a group of new pilots could still belt rat in frigates/destroyers while a system has a few enemies. I’d warp in 100km above or below the belt and wait for the rats to mwd toward us. This would still make it hard for the hunter as he would have to do more work to get a point. Also this opens up a window where it could be possible to take out the hunters pointing ship before their back up arrives, if you’re doing belts or combat sites and you warp in on 0 from a station or gate then you’re asking for trouble. I dunno Drac, I am detecting a bit of rigid gameplay in your responses, much of what you say isn’t possible actually is possible if you tweak some tactics a little bit. My issue with what you type is that I know you have somewhat of a following and I feel you are giving them and other people reading you the wrong impression of the game. I get that this game is long and technical and you have to plan out everything you do to avoid being killed, I think you should just say you’re no longer bothered to keep up with the military precision involved in playing Eve rather than promoting falsehoods. I’m not trying to argue or anything it’s just that I want to see Eve survive and I want the new people coming in to be given an accurate depiction of the game so they are in a better position to decide if they will remain in the game. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > And this is why Eve is just not a good game any more for people doing PvE and being hard to kill because you spend most of your time cloaked up and all they do is leave afk cloaky campers in the systems you normally rat in. It is just gone as game play… Anything is always going to be hard or impossible if one doesn’t want to adapt to their surroundings. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/keeping-pve-players-in-eve/305455.md?page=23) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/keeping-pve-players-in-eve/305455.md?page=25)