# Kicking Over Castles news discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Tags:** official\ **Created:** [December 3, 2019, 6:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/kicking-over-castles-news-discussion/204385 "2019-12-03T18:12:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 6:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/kicking-over-castles-news-discussion/204385/123 "2019-12-04T06:38:36Z")
> [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > If you knew what you were talking about you would know that bashers don’t bash active stations…but you don’t know so… Except that we did and it was fun. So what else do you get wrong? > [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > Great. Working as intended. Carry on. Not my fault people are not playing the game correctly. > [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > …and there are costs to those advantages. Tough. And it is tough that you have to defend a War HQ. > [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > No becasue, yet again, why would a basher bash an active station when there are thousands of inactive ones out there. Missing the point, yet again, typical. Again I have an active structure with defences, I want it to defend itself, I find it fun operating those defences, but with the changes here and people asking for no TZ at all then I might as well not bother, which is my point. And if you were not so desperate to have an argument with me which is your forum game then you would not be a complete moron with your answers which is why I will be blocking you again. It is amusing that you disagree with me and agree with Nevyn when he is agreeing with me. Strange that isn’t it? > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Autodefence alongside this change would make me happy enough. I’d even take a shorter highsec timer as well if needed. This is the sort of answer an intelligent player makes, we have had our differences in opinion at times. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > I don’t think it even needs extra guns, though it would need a reliable point for auto defence to work. The current defences are enough to generally stop a single person bashing it as long as they fire. (ok the over 250km range bashing fits might present an issue). Again the point that is important. * * * I am perfectly happy with lowsec, nullsec and WH being tougher as in needing more people with round the clock coverage, but hisec is a different client base. CCP needs to think about this one size fits all attitude in terms of structures and that to have one in hisec has to have the same level of setup as a major nullsec block, especially as it does not actually apply in terms of bonuses for example. CCP think about it… ---
**Author:** ![Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/circumstantial_evidence/32/399551_2.png) [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Circumstantial_Evidence)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 6:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/kicking-over-castles-news-discussion/204385/125 "2019-12-04T06:52:06Z")
Autodefense for the old POS’s became such a mess, that game design decided not to go that route for the new structures. CCP would have to design an Ai for a new auto-defense system that would take many factors into account, and players would still mess up ACL’s, lose a ship (probably a jump freighter alt) and create support tickets. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 7:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/kicking-over-castles-news-discussion/204385/126 "2019-12-04T07:15:44Z")
> [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > So that’s your corps main job? You are bashers? > [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > Not at all…nobody attacks as I only attack LP stations…still don’t get that part…lol… We took out someone doing what you do, he war decked one of our group, so we piled in on him and defeated him, I also made it so the guy failed his final timers on two low powered structures, then he joined up with a bigger group and then got them to war dec us and we are kicking his butt again. Again you have no idea mate. > [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > But we’re not at the no TZ stage now so stop panicking… Step by step they are moving in that direction, if you do not have auto defence at all then you can’t go there. I know you don’t like me and want to have an argument with me, I don’t like you either, but without auto defence like the POS’s have you just cannot do it. I don’t want your war HQ to be an easy touch mate, simple as, and I have no issue with the fact that low powered structures are easy as people have abandoned them. I am perfectly fine with you attacking them too. Still you agree with Nevyn that he has a point when he agrees with what I was getting at. I may have gone at this with a bit of a rant, I accept that, and it triggered you, but you are easily triggered by me. But the issue is Hisec is not nullsec and you have to tailor the game for the player types. I feel like when I reply to you I am wasting my time because you just want a fight. So I am going to try to work out who you are in game and I will come and blow up your war HQ because why not… > [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](#): > > Autodefense for the old POS’s became such a mess, that game design decided not to go that route for the new structures. CCP would have to design an Ai for a new auto-defense system that would take many factors into account, and players would still mess up ACL’s, lose a ship (probably a jump freighter alt) and create support tickets. I understand the issues but if it comes down to forcing the defender to have a structure that is a walk in the park when he is not around then we start to have an issue in not enabling some sort of auto defence. Hisec is not nullsec, it is the area for more casual individual players, hell there is a war dec system too. Why make it a one size fits all setup. ---
**Author:** ![Kearney\_Eqorin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kearney_eqorin/32/173303_2.png) [@Kearney\_Eqorin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kearney_Eqorin)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 7:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/kicking-over-castles-news-discussion/204385/127 "2019-12-04T07:30:02Z")
if this happens, this are the results: - null - no more quick deployment of small citadels in contested regions, results into more security of nullsec crabs, after shooting citadel down, all assets are “transporting” to safety citadel, what sucks - if you wanna changes, than let it burn down! otherwise its only a safety hand over nullbears! - low - who cares, its almost dead in most of the systems - except Purplehelmed Warriors, and few others almost unknown low-sec corps/alliances - Wormholes - very unbalanced - big eviction Corps will farm the Wormholes for loot, and to be frankly, there is almost no chance to defend against Singularity, Inner Hell, Lazerhawks, etc. so it will be pinata hunt in wormholes. Add more structures, to have more defending options in WH then, if you wanna have some variety in WHs ---
**Author:** ![Kira\_Hhallas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kira_hhallas/32/401600_2.png) [@Kira\_Hhallas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kira_Hhallas)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 7:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/kicking-over-castles-news-discussion/204385/128 "2019-12-04T07:32:52Z")
Hey, it would be great if we get some examples. With the OLD POS System we had some better options as defender. - self defence from the POS (if people are to stupied and mess up the System, there bad) - strontium for the RF Timer. As POS owner i was abe to set the RF Timer. - More Self defence options then with the zitadels. Shot down a good death star take hours and you had to bring a 30+ man Group. Taking down a Astraus is like steal a child a lolly… if there is no one online … 4 DPS BC and the M Zitas are in the RF Timer. You want to have more fights for the Zitas… … stop the Asset Safty… this i why people not interessted in NullSec shooting Zitas. In W-Space we have no Asset Safty … With this system you only punish people to be offline for familie and work. ---
**Author:** ![Amra\_Ni-Yesta](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/amra_ni-yesta/32/420140_2.png) [@Amra\_Ni-Yesta](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Amra_Ni-Yesta)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 7:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/kicking-over-castles-news-discussion/204385/129 "2019-12-04T07:41:15Z")
What mess for the pos ? If you know how to set it it works. ---
**Author:** ![Amra\_Ni-Yesta](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/amra_ni-yesta/32/420140_2.png) [@Amra\_Ni-Yesta](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Amra_Ni-Yesta)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 7:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/kicking-over-castles-news-discussion/204385/130 "2019-12-04T07:48:00Z")
I agree with you but if they remoove the asset safety in null, I mean… Have you seen the reaction about black out ? Null sec will turn into an open butchery and big alliance will zerg for loot everything. Game will die. We will have 1-2 big alliances in null and this is it. ---
**Author:** ![Kira\_Hhallas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kira_hhallas/32/401600_2.png) [@Kira\_Hhallas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kira_Hhallas)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 7:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/kicking-over-castles-news-discussion/204385/131 "2019-12-04T07:50:19Z")
You have 1 - 2 Big Alliances in NS 😉 Only why to get more real People into NS is, break up the old big one … to have some fresh Air for new people into NS. ---
**Author:** ![Amra\_Ni-Yesta](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/amra_ni-yesta/32/420140_2.png) [@Amra\_Ni-Yesta](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Amra_Ni-Yesta)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 7:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/kicking-over-castles-news-discussion/204385/132 "2019-12-04T07:52:29Z")
This is why i did a suggestion in the past about put a limit in alliance size. To create several “small” alliances human size and create diversity and have a real interrest in the capture the flag system : sov. I see a lot of empty null sec space but flag by big alliances. They want and they have an ENORMOUS empire, in fact they live in what ? couples of solar systems. ---
**Author:** ![Kira\_Hhallas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kira_hhallas/32/401600_2.png) [@Kira\_Hhallas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kira_Hhallas)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 7:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/kicking-over-castles-news-discussion/204385/133 "2019-12-04T07:58:54Z")
We had this anno 2009. Alliance sizes were limited by Skill. ---
**Author:** ![Kearney\_Eqorin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kearney_eqorin/32/173303_2.png) [@Kearney\_Eqorin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kearney_Eqorin)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 7:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/kicking-over-castles-news-discussion/204385/134 "2019-12-04T07:59:15Z")
lets take a look, how many corps have XY citadels under umbrella, so it will be not so tragic as with blackout. When corp loose citadel in WH, its gone for ever, but if nullbears loose citadel in null, it doesnt matter, the assets will be delivered in other citadel, its neverending circle of “rebirth”, so they don´t loose anything in that way - unless they are AFK mining or ratting. CCP wanna make EVE great again, but they are talking only with nullsec poeple (mostly) and doesnt care about small scall brawls which are more interesting as F1 button in bigger fleets. I always wonder, why there is no group in CCP, they take care for WH ---
**Author:** ![Amra\_Ni-Yesta](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/amra_ni-yesta/32/420140_2.png) [@Amra\_Ni-Yesta](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Amra_Ni-Yesta)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 8:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/kicking-over-castles-news-discussion/204385/135 "2019-12-04T08:06:55Z")
Interresting, thank you for the information. Was the game more interresting ? ---
**Author:** ![Amra\_Ni-Yesta](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/amra_ni-yesta/32/420140_2.png) [@Amra\_Ni-Yesta](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Amra_Ni-Yesta)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 8:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/kicking-over-castles-news-discussion/204385/136 "2019-12-04T08:09:16Z")
Well you have to satisfy the number, and the fact is : players want to join the biggest entity to be safe or feel strong or to have protection. This is a human reaction. And number is in null sec. ---
**Author:** ![Eluwien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eluwien/32/350652_2.png) [@Eluwien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eluwien)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 8:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/kicking-over-castles-news-discussion/204385/137 "2019-12-04T08:23:42Z")
> [@FC\_Convict](#): > > Please use this thread to discuss [the upcoming changes in the Kicking Over Castles update](https://www.eveonline.com/article/q1y7xm/kicking-over-castles-coming-soon) coming on December 10th. CCP Convict, or CCP in general, your article is unclear. Can you please confirm if this change affects BOTH timers, from shield-\>armor and armor-\>hull, or just THE FINAL timers, armor-\>hull or shield-\>hull if low powered. Please, because this has vastly greater effects on everything if its both, over if its only the latter. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Elwha\_Lynx](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elwha_lynx/32/246048_2.png) [@Elwha\_Lynx](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elwha_Lynx)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 8:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/kicking-over-castles-news-discussion/204385/138 "2019-12-04T08:24:59Z")
> [@Amra\_Ni-Yesta](#): > > I agree with you but if they remoove the asset safety in null, I mean… Have you seen the reaction about black out ? Null sec will turn into an open butchery and big alliance will zerg for loot everything. > > Game will die. We will have 1-2 big alliances in null and this is it. Only about 20% of characters live in NS and players likely far less than that for players. It could all burn and Eve would still go on. No need to be over-dramatic about it. Timer seems like a good change, if group is so casual they can’t mount any defense they need to merge with someone with more flexible players. The ADM restriction will incentive’s groups to get out of their pockets or continue to be harassed by dropped structures on their door step. Else wise it will add more mischief potential–which is usually a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 8:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/kicking-over-castles-news-discussion/204385/139 "2019-12-04T08:25:17Z")
> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > But casual players never had chance to defend a structure anyway. Well some people want to do that, we defended two other corps structures because we went after someone who decided to war dec one of our contacts. > [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > Right now, bashing structures is too hard and too expensive. It costs 200milion for war fees and, if the citadel is fueled takes three timers you have to be there. And it is annoying to bash it as it takes ages if it is not low power, requires specific ships and/or numbers and if there is a single person in citadel you need to field logistic ships on the grid otherwipe you get wiped out. I agree that 200m is too much, I would put the war dec fee down to 10m per week, having to have a war HQ is fine. As for the timers no big deal, you have to fight to kill it and target selection is also key, I have to look for people to fight in my TZ. CCP should not reward people who look for players who can’t defend themselves in their TZ. It has to be something that you find tough we do it. Also you get good drops, the War HQ we destroyed made us 350m of modules dropped and 140m in salvage and that easily covered the 100m war dec fee, which was less because in the first two timers we were allies on a war dec. > [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > But, if someone wanted really hard, then you as a causual player had no chance to defend it. You would need lots of allies to be able to defend anything but small sized corporation who are mostly going after afk low powered citadels. And even if you defended it once, if the attackers really wanted they would repeat the attacks over and over untill you give up. There was case like this posted recently at forums and it drove that guy to quit the game. I put a structure in space, it is gong to die, I know it and you know it, I want it to die with a bang, in that it created a fleet fight combat, not with a whimper with someone sitting there when I am in bed or at work with two untanked oracles watching netflixs while they do it. Low powered structures are there because people have stopped playing and have no use for it and trying to scoop it is not worth doing as they are easily stolen, so it gets left there as nothing. But all my group have powered structures with defences. I want to use them. You are applying that broad brush of players who abuse mechanics to make it harder for those that actually want to have fun with them. > [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > Tl’dr. causual players are not supposed to own citadels by the nature of this game. Casual players are in hisec, hisec has a war dec system that enables less casual players to move into another tier of content, I don’t think thath nullsec levels of intense play should apply to hisec casuals who have put their toe in the water of being less casual. It is like join the big boys game, then wrack, your dead, HTFU. Well that went well, lets find another game then… > [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > It is still unclear what the new changes changes, I read it, but this whole mechanic is now so overcomplicated that we will have to try it first to see what happens. As long as they do not go any further, but I thought that on the last one, now this one comes in and what next, no timer? This is where it is heading, you see the intent of people like Brisc and the nullsec groups. I think hisec should have this catered for hisec. > [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > Either way, if it helps attackers, then we will see more content and less citadel spam. Isn’t that what we all wanted? So why it is wrong again? 😃 This clutter comment is incorrect, the best way to remove clutter is to create a better way to scoop the damn things instead of making them a free gift to everyone. I want to use and abuse my structures, I want people coming for them and getting their ass kicked. I don’t want someone calmly sitting there in two Oracles watching Netflix while I am at work or sleeping. > [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > Seriously it seems like nothing CCP can do will be taken positively. I am taking it seriously because CCP need to stop and think about the different tiers of play and hisec is a different tier of play. > [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > Correct. But for bashers, they don’t go after active stations as there is no point when so many inactive ones are around. Vladdy doesn’t get that part at all… This is why I call this person a moron, he is so off base with this it is amusing as hell. I don’t want my stations made so easy that it does not matter that I want to defend it, the changes are pushing towards making my powered fully equipped stations as worthless as those unpowered unfit ones he shoots. ---
**Author:** ![Sordina1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sordina1/32/158264_2.png) [@Sordina1](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sordina1)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 8:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/kicking-over-castles-news-discussion/204385/140 "2019-12-04T08:25:32Z")
Oh, great then. I answered based on Rise presentation in Vegas. Where he said they wont move existing gates. Good thing they changed mind and force moving. ---
**Author:** ![Amra\_Ni-Yesta](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/amra_ni-yesta/32/420140_2.png) [@Amra\_Ni-Yesta](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Amra_Ni-Yesta)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 8:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/kicking-over-castles-news-discussion/204385/141 "2019-12-04T08:29:30Z")
Why groups should merge ? Where have you found this number ? An informant told me 2 days ago, before this news was released that i should be carefull, Goons is planning a masse eviction in wh space. I understand why now. ---
**Author:** ![Tialano\_Utrigas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tialano_utrigas/32/422785_2.png) [@Tialano\_Utrigas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tialano_Utrigas)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 8:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/kicking-over-castles-news-discussion/204385/142 "2019-12-04T08:55:23Z")
Does being unable to tether mean they are unable to dock? I cant see any reference to it although I dont get why you would disallow tethering but allow docking. ---
**Author:** ![Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/circumstantial_evidence/32/399551_2.png) [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Circumstantial_Evidence)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 8:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/kicking-over-castles-news-discussion/204385/143 "2019-12-04T08:57:11Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > I understand the issues but if it comes down to forcing the defender to have a structure that is a walk in the park when he is not around then we start to have an issue in not enabling some sort of auto defence. Hisec is not nullsec, it is the area for more casual individual players I wouldn’t object to having it, either - am just pointing out the low probability of us getting a complex new feature for structures. They’d have to decide how “good” to make an auto-defense feature. Even if CCP did it “right” according to some players, it would create a new pathway to support tickets - another mark CCP would have against starting that work 😉 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/kicking-over-castles-news-discussion/204385.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/kicking-over-castles-news-discussion/204385.md?page=8)