# Lancer Dreads and unfair game mechanics **URL:** \ **Category:** Assembly Hall\ **Created:** [September 22, 2023, 5:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lancer-dreads-and-unfair-game-mechanics/421383 "2023-09-22T17:10:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Audur\_Eigilsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/audur_eigilsdottir/32/388004_2.png) [@Audur\_Eigilsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Audur_Eigilsdottir)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2023, 5:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lancer-dreads-and-unfair-game-mechanics/421383/1 "2023-09-22T17:10:11Z")
CSM you all really need to look at the mechanic of Lancer Dreads and their use in LoSec to prevent jump freighters from moving between losec and hisec. I am not adverse to the mechanic of the Lance but it is completely unbalanced for a Lancer to sit on a losec to hisec gate and essentially prevent freighters from jumping and then BLOPSing a fleet in. Now I know what everyone will say: just counter it with you own fleet, yada yada yada. That’s crap. Why is it that we always make mechanics that are anti-industrial? Why is it that a PVP fleet does not have to carry around an industrial fleet to play eve but an industrial ship ALWAYS has to carry around a PVP fleet? This will have serious implications for logistics in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2023, 5:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lancer-dreads-and-unfair-game-mechanics/421383/2 "2023-09-22T17:28:51Z")
There are already topics about it and a lot of arguments why the current “problem” is the unwillingness of the JF pilots to adapt. Nobody forces any JF to jump into a lancer-camped system and warp straight from the station to the highsec gate. Pro Tip: Because that is 100% predicable and a hitting shot is just a matter of clever timing. ---
**Author:** ![Audur\_Eigilsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/audur_eigilsdottir/32/388004_2.png) [@Audur\_Eigilsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Audur_Eigilsdottir)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2023, 5:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lancer-dreads-and-unfair-game-mechanics/421383/3 "2023-09-22T17:43:33Z")
Typical response. Wait until CCP does something to a PVP ship that allows a JF pilot to kill them…oh…wait CCP never does that. Industrial pilots will always be second class in Eve. As said in the other forum posts. CCP developed a JF killer and no one cares. And “adapting” is not as easy as it sounds. We now have to go way out of our way and set up tremendous amounts of logistics because PVP’ers need a way to absolutely kill a freighter every time. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2023, 5:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lancer-dreads-and-unfair-game-mechanics/421383/4 "2023-09-22T17:47:18Z")
> [@Audur\_Eigilsdottir](#): > > Wait until CCP does something to a PVP ship that allows a JF pilot to kill them… In this case I will probably read the patch notes, figure out how the JF pilot can kill me and avoid getting into that situation. > [@Audur\_Eigilsdottir](#): > > And “adapting” is not as easy as it sounds. It is. Increadibly easy. The Lancer Groups do nothing more than knowing exactly how long your JF warps from the station to the gate and time their shot accordingly. They also know the direction from which you arrive, so they can aim their lance accordingly. Now that you know that, an average person’s brain cells should be able to find a solution that they will miss their shot. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2023, 5:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lancer-dreads-and-unfair-game-mechanics/421383/5 "2023-09-22T17:54:42Z")
> [@Audur\_Eigilsdottir](#): > > This will have serious implications for logistics in the game. That’s the point. A more dangerous universe is always a better universe. Instead of verticalizing everything, people are forced to hone their skills. If yours ain’t hauling then pay a courier contract to someone who has the skill. ---
**Author:** ![Audur\_Eigilsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/audur_eigilsdottir/32/388004_2.png) [@Audur\_Eigilsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Audur_Eigilsdottir)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2023, 6:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lancer-dreads-and-unfair-game-mechanics/421383/6 "2023-09-22T18:00:07Z")
I have plenty of years with logistics and will be able to adapt. I will say that I disagree with you from the standpoint that CCP introduced an unbalanced game mechanic that gives one player a defined advantage over another. We always speak to “balancing” and this is not that. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2023, 6:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lancer-dreads-and-unfair-game-mechanics/421383/7 "2023-09-22T18:05:22Z")
Arguing over balanced is like arguing over shades of a color. Everyone is right, in their own mind. I’m not interested. I told you from the goal of: “a healthy game provides a diverse range of skillful gameplay”, introducing the fact that logistics now has a much higher skill ceiling is a benefit for the game. You can disagree with that principle or not, but you cannot deny that logistics gameplay would now reward a player who becomes specialized and focused on it. Thus, there’s incentives to not be vertically integrated, which has second order effects. Like allowing rookie industrial or hauling oriented pilots opportunities to grow and specialize. But I don’t think you care about them in your “balance” idea. ---
**Author:** ![Audur\_Eigilsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/audur_eigilsdottir/32/388004_2.png) [@Audur\_Eigilsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Audur_Eigilsdottir)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2023, 6:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lancer-dreads-and-unfair-game-mechanics/421383/8 "2023-09-22T18:14:30Z")
I will concede that you have some points in your reply. I do appreciate the thoughts. In the end, happy to at a minimum be able to express my opinion on the forum. ---
**Author:** ![Malak\_Starfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malak_starfire/32/501915_2.png) [@Malak\_Starfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malak_Starfire)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2023, 2:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lancer-dreads-and-unfair-game-mechanics/421383/9 "2023-09-23T02:37:21Z")
JF’s being able to be safe 95% most of the time is unbalancing. No other ship had such a high survival chance, not even a blockade runner. Having a weakness IS balance. You are just upset that you have to use more than 2 brain cells to survive now. ---
**Author:** ![Phelan\_Kheldian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/phelan_kheldian/32/450826_2.png) [@Phelan\_Kheldian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Phelan_Kheldian)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2023, 8:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lancer-dreads-and-unfair-game-mechanics/421383/10 "2023-09-23T08:24:27Z")
> [@Audur\_Eigilsdottir](#): > > Why is it that a PVP fleet does not have to carry around an industrial fleet to play eve but an industrial ship ALWAYS has to carry around a PVP fleet? [It mirrors real life.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Atlantic) > [@Audur\_Eigilsdottir](#): > > Why is it that we always make mechanics that are anti-industrial? Because jump freighters basically made moving large amounts of materials incredibly easy with little actual risk. Lancer dreads were literally put in the game to rebalance this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Apo\_Bong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/apo_bong/32/512751_2.png) [@Apo\_Bong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Apo_Bong)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2023, 9:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lancer-dreads-and-unfair-game-mechanics/421383/11 "2023-09-23T09:51:48Z")
Give us highsec Lancers!!! 😡 😡 🪧 ---
**Author:** ![New\_Order\_Enforcer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/new_order_enforcer/32/387867_2.png) [@New\_Order\_Enforcer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/New_Order_Enforcer)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2023, 11:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lancer-dreads-and-unfair-game-mechanics/421383/12 "2023-09-23T11:08:22Z")
You can always uninstall the game. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2023, 11:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lancer-dreads-and-unfair-game-mechanics/421383/13 "2023-09-23T23:00:34Z")
We have raised this issue multiple times. CCP seems okay with the current system. Not much more we can do. ---
**Author:** ![LizAlec](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lizalec/32/439067_2.png) [@LizAlec](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/LizAlec)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2023, 11:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lancer-dreads-and-unfair-game-mechanics/421383/14 "2023-09-23T23:46:33Z")
Why do you believe it’s fair you can move items through low sec to high sec with zero risk? ---
**Author:** ![Posh\_Wynoa\_Spice](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/posh_wynoa_spice/32/455534_2.png) [@Posh\_Wynoa\_Spice](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Posh_Wynoa_Spice)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 7:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lancer-dreads-and-unfair-game-mechanics/421383/16 "2023-09-26T19:18:08Z")
With the capitol revamp and addition of capitol modules from some years ago, Freighters and Jump Freighters are overdue to get a rework to fall in line with the other capitol ships with high slots, mid slots, and rigs to provide fitting options. or remove the minimum cap needed to jump a gate with freighter, similar in the other “capitol in highsec” rules that those indy ships are exempt from following, but that is a lazier solution. @Audur_Eigilsdottir Your best bet is to use a large regional gate to highsec, where you have bookmarks at 1km away from the gate at 8 different locations around the gate, and have some random chance that they pick a different spot than you land at. @Brisc_Rubal keep beating that drum! Appreciate your efforts in being vocal to the devs, and keeping us on the forums in the know! ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 8:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lancer-dreads-and-unfair-game-mechanics/421383/17 "2023-09-26T20:30:28Z")
Brisc is on his way out of being a csm member. ---
**Author:** ![Sienna\_Massilia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sienna_massilia/32/390388_2.png) [@Sienna\_Massilia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sienna_Massilia)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 8:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lancer-dreads-and-unfair-game-mechanics/421383/18 "2023-09-26T20:38:57Z")
> [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](#): > > Brisc is on his way out of being a csm member That means we’ll only have _one_ CSM member active in the forum. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 8:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lancer-dreads-and-unfair-game-mechanics/421383/19 "2023-09-26T20:41:53Z")
Yea it sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Sienna\_Massilia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sienna_massilia/32/390388_2.png) [@Sienna\_Massilia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sienna_Massilia)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 8:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lancer-dreads-and-unfair-game-mechanics/421383/20 "2023-09-26T20:48:25Z")
> [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](#): > > it sucks Major bummer. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 9:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lancer-dreads-and-unfair-game-mechanics/421383/21 "2023-09-26T21:13:19Z")
I’d suggest to give the new ones some time. Some of them have promised to focus on “good communication” between players, CSM and devs. Lets see how that turns out. [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lancer-dreads-and-unfair-game-mechanics/421383.md?page=2)