# Legal/Ethical question regarding invasive 3rd party EVE platforms **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 26, 2018, 1:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308 "2018-09-26T01:36:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dimitri\_Morvaine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dimitri_morvaine/32/46624_2.png) [@Dimitri\_Morvaine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dimitri_Morvaine)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 10:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/43 "2018-09-26T22:58:59Z")
[quote=“Khergit\_Deserters, post:40, topic:109308, full:false”] The easy answer is “No, it’s just a game.” But on the other hand, having one’s char identity somehow compromised or harmed could cause a person real damages. [/quote] With CCP now in the hands of a company that is based in a country where its citizens have a separate social security number like thing for games, CCP will definitely have to comply. ---
**Author:** ![Noragen\_Neirfallas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noragen_neirfallas/32/375148_2.png) [@Noragen\_Neirfallas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noragen_Neirfallas)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/44 "2018-09-27T00:14:01Z")
Even if Noragen Neirfallas were my real life name it would in no way be me… Further more we own NOTHING to do with our eve characters. Everything inside the game is wholly owned by CCP. We own nothing including the game data and the only thing that is protected is our Real Life personal data in the account management area which no third party program has access too ---
**Author:** ![Dimitri\_Morvaine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dimitri_morvaine/32/46624_2.png) [@Dimitri\_Morvaine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dimitri_Morvaine)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 12:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/45 "2018-09-27T00:15:47Z")
Then in that case the OP’s problem that he stated, might concern ISD’s, DEV’s, and CCP staff, as those accounts might have more data than a normal players account. ---
**Author:** ![Noragen\_Neirfallas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noragen_neirfallas/32/375148_2.png) [@Noragen\_Neirfallas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noragen_Neirfallas)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 12:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/46 "2018-09-27T00:33:26Z")
![giphy%20(1)](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41bd9d5bf3e7777283a890eaa07bcb83efb797b8.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Thomas\_Tur\_Bando](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thomas_tur_bando/32/98767_2.png) [@Thomas\_Tur\_Bando](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Thomas_Tur_Bando)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 5:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/47 "2018-09-27T05:12:01Z")
You are also forgetting congress is a collection of elderly people who are either pissed at tech companies for election hacking or pissed at them for censorship of conservative messages, depending on which party they belong to. Either way the average age in congress is 61.1 years old, thus do not expect them to make decisions from your perspective as a video game junkie. It’s not me who don’t understand the difference. Listen to Mark Zuck’s congressional interrogation to see for yourself. I’m just a messenger. Don’t shoot. ---
**Author:** ![Thomas\_Tur\_Bando](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thomas_tur_bando/32/98767_2.png) [@Thomas\_Tur\_Bando](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Thomas_Tur_Bando)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 5:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/48 "2018-09-27T05:14:15Z")
> [@Dimitri\_Morvaine](#): > > those accounts might have more data than a normal players account. As the ISD a few posts ago already said, Yes they have those info and no it’s not legal for them to make such info public. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/49 "2018-09-27T17:53:12Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > not personal information about the players who plays those characters. The distinction between player, character and person have not been ironed out. Seemingly unrelated legislation may have significant impact on that, as much as specific legislation on it. These issues are tremendously complex and multi-faceted. Nobody knows how this coin is going to land. Huge IT firms are very interested in eroding the rights to information of private persons. ---
**Author:** ![Noragen\_Neirfallas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noragen_neirfallas/32/375148_2.png) [@Noragen\_Neirfallas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noragen_Neirfallas)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 6:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/50 "2018-09-27T18:52:47Z")
Let me help you than. Your eve character is a digital character in a digital world wholly owned by a company and you merely pay to interact with it (or don’t pay and have restricted access) You are not digital and are a person. You are currently imputing text on a screen. I hope this cleared up the difference for you ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 7:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/51 "2018-09-27T19:07:34Z")
I don’t get it Noragen. Are you saying I’m not real? ---
**Author:** ![Noragen\_Neirfallas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noragen_neirfallas/32/375148_2.png) [@Noragen\_Neirfallas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noragen_Neirfallas)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 7:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/52 "2018-09-27T19:08:41Z")
Your real to me ❤ ---
**Author:** ![Thomas\_Tur\_Bando](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thomas_tur_bando/32/98767_2.png) [@Thomas\_Tur\_Bando](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Thomas_Tur_Bando)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 9:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/53 "2018-09-27T21:23:07Z")
Get a room ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/54 "2018-09-27T22:11:51Z")
> [@Thomas\_Tur\_Bando](#): > > Get a room A virtual one or a real one? 🤔 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![isk4trade](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isk4trade/32/81422_2.png) [@isk4trade](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/isk4trade)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 10:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/55 "2018-09-27T22:46:27Z")
The Korean Company, Pearl just bought EVE Online for around 450 MILLION US DOLLARS. As much as CCP says that they are going to remain totally independent, I have a hard time believing that some entity that pays that much money for something is not going to make demands after the dust settles. … but Pay to Win is not going to affect us traders much. Trading is about experience not ships or modules or such … its about brain not in game things … so I will just go with the flow … No use of daddy’s Gold Credit card can replace 10 years of experience trading on EVE Online nor even the amazing abilities and reflexes of an extremely talented Rifter pilot, even … Bring it on! ---
**Author:** ![isk4trade](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isk4trade/32/81422_2.png) [@isk4trade](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/isk4trade)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 10:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/56 "2018-09-27T22:50:04Z")
The only HUGE things about the EVE EULA is that they OWN EVERYTHING … and they are allowed to totally shut down the game with NO notice, at any time. but … ofc they would be insane to do such … but, they CAN and you would have NO legal recourse no matter how much you paid in advance maybe … but …ok … I am staying anyways so I don’t care … . ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 11:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/57 "2018-09-27T23:26:09Z")
> [@Noragen\_Neirfallas](#): > > I hope this cleared up the difference for you Your personal, pleb, colloquial view has nothing to do with the law on these issues. I’m not insulting you. You just dont have even the first inkling of how complex and potentially bad this can get, and as completely beyond your control and with no regard for what you think is the case. You didnt “clear up” anything. ---
**Author:** ![isk4trade](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isk4trade/32/81422_2.png) [@isk4trade](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/isk4trade)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 12:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/58 "2018-09-28T00:52:17Z")
I suggest you talk to your lawyer because your passive aggressive, although intelligent rant will fuel little fire or response HERE methinks (besides ridicule) … ---
**Author:** ![Hipqo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hipqo/32/10696_2.png) [@Hipqo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hipqo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 5:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/59 "2018-09-28T05:06:39Z")
How do you know people are home and not playing while at work or anything else or maybe afk?? You dont. You just know they are online… And yeh, “sanctioning” stuff works great for USA, just look at the current tarif crap war… Theres a reason Harley Davidson are moving the alot of their manufacturing to Germany now. Same thing will happen with other companies, they will simply leave USA and USA will lose money, and that hurts congress more then anything else. Not to mention, if USA does pass a law like this, the EU will go bananas, like they have before, forcing USA to change the law or face conqequenses. USA cannot dictate how this will go down. ---
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 6:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/60 "2018-09-28T06:19:58Z")
> [@Thomas\_Tur\_Bando](#): > > For example, zKill has a tracker that shows a graph of the user’s online/active times. If someone knows you personally and monitor that, they can see when you’re not home and rob your house. Apparently reading is hard. If i put a tracking device to your smartphone i will be able to track you. But i haven’t got any “personal data” because i was tracking electronic device which is not human. > [@Hipqo](#): > > How do you know people are home and not playing while at work or anything else or maybe afk?? You dont. You just know they are online… And one more: > [@Thomas\_Tur\_Bando](#): > > If someone knows you personally Hint: “know personally” implies that this someone could know that you play from home and some other details. ---
**Author:** ![Zachri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zachri/32/69948_2.png) [@Zachri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zachri)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 8:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/61 "2018-09-28T08:56:34Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > zKillboard and similar sites have information about Thomas Tur Bando and Ima Wreckyou, etc. and their video game scores and doings and not personal information about the players who plays those characters. > > Multiple other people have already explained this and since you seem to not listen I have at least a request. If you go to Court about this, at least dress like the capsuleer you try to represent and film the whole thing so we can have a laugh. Not too long ago (at work in the real world) we were given a briefing during an external consultation round. To my surprise we were informed that shadow profiling methodology already bypassed what is known as the virtual identity treshold several years ago. In fact, it was found that throughout the gaming industry data profiling on virtual identities is a proverbial given, in service of various purposes of datamining where datapoints in many cases are (directly or indirectly) provisioned to profiling / sourcing data providers where the virtual is matched to the real. Underlying reasoning being the interest of behavioural profiling. In other words, what we do in games, even under seperate virtual identities is as interesting as it is collected and matched for profiling provisioning. Personal information is something we tend to see as “the” privacy thing, but in reality that is merely a so-called entry / validation point, the focal point is behaviour. In the last few years there’s been more discussion on these matters in some areas, particularly here in the EU. In most other tradezones with overlap in legal frameworks it is something between a still very young discussion, or something on a very very far opposite end of the scale (see behavioural mapping + social credit mechanisms like in Asia, the People’s Republic already exports this to countries like Japan, South Korea and others). Since then consultation rounds have involved also representation of the gaming industry, Valve for example has been a reluctant but present entity which in some ways has decided to be ahead of a few curves. Other companies, such as a certain popular fps game provider are fighting behaviour data collection of virtual identities tooth and nail. Don’t make the mistake in thinking that privacy = personal information. It’s our behaviour which is of interest, everything else is just an entry point for applied methodology. Also do not make the mistake in thinking that a virtual identity is anything but a measurable and controlled representation of a real persona. The idea that we behave differently in the virtual than in the real is a fun idea, unfortunately differences in relation to stimuli and compensatory choice behaviour is a non-factor as technology and science have that mapped out for a long time now. Worse, it’s such things that are a critical subset of behavioural predictability models which not so long ago were a matter of public debate due to the attention for a single company in media. Of the myriad engaged in commercial activities. We tend to focus on the small bit of “what happens with my real name” and such in discussions like these. The irony is that it’s not about that, but about profiling behaviour while matching real/virtual hasn’t been a topic or treshold for years now. Remember, all platforms are linked in various ways. ---
**Author:** ![Esmeralda\_Brunsh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/esmeralda_brunsh/32/91427_2.png) [@Esmeralda\_Brunsh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Esmeralda_Brunsh)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 9:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/62 "2018-09-28T09:16:39Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Your personal, pleb, colloquial view has nothing to do with the law on these issues. You are not helping. I mean, I have doubts whether you’re acting in good faith, but just in case you are, I’ll ask you to please stop posting. > [@Noragen\_Neirfallas](#): > > Let me help you than. Your eve character is a digital character in a digital world wholly owned by a company and you merely pay to interact with it (or don’t pay and have restricted access) It’s a representation of me, and it’s not uncommon for an Eve player to be identifiable in the real life, and, furthermnore, while you might not know me by my real name, you know there’s a specific person behind my account. There are reasons why I’m pretty sure (as far as I can be as not a lawyer — just a person who occasionally has to process personal data) it’s okay to publish killmail data, but it’s closer to “it’s a thing you’re doing in public” than “it’s not personal information.” That doesn’t mean that zKillboard is evil, but I wouldn’t be as lackadaisacal as zKillboard is unless a lawyer specializing in privacy laws told me it’s fine. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308.md?page=4)