# Legal/Ethical question regarding invasive 3rd party EVE platforms **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 26, 2018, 1:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308 "2018-09-26T01:36:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Noragen\_Neirfallas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noragen_neirfallas/32/375148_2.png) [@Noragen\_Neirfallas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noragen_Neirfallas)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 9:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/63 "2018-09-28T09:23:59Z")
What part of wholly owned by CCP are people not getting… ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 9:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/64 "2018-09-28T09:24:14Z")
I don’t know man. People who basically walk around all day with a surveillance device in their pockets and who document what they eat, check in where they are, on whatever unsocial media is the flavor of the day start to complain about killmails of a virtual character is “profiling” their real persona is a bit strange a pretentious to me. There are a gazillion ways how the lawmaker could increase the privacy of people but going after virtual game ladders is not really the first thing that comes to mind. This still sounds very much like he wants to hide his super red killboard. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 9:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/65 "2018-09-28T09:36:16Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > There are a gazillion ways how the lawmaker could increase the privacy of people but going after virtual game ladders is not really the first thing that comes to mind. The inverse is happening. Our “rights” to privacy are being eroded and evaded even as we speak here, and the mountains of data on all of us grow ever larger and are more efficiently processed. Unfortunately, its a losing battle. 20yrs from now the internet and privacy rights will look nothing like today. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 9:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/66 "2018-09-28T09:46:06Z")
The problem is that this is mostly no concern to normal people because they have no idea what the consequences can be. Once the consequences become a daily topic this will change. But anyway, this wasn’t the topic. This was all about op wanting to get rid of his killboard stats because he sucks at EVE, which is nothing that should concern him because most people suck at EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 9:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/67 "2018-09-28T09:48:49Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > The problem is that this is mostly no concern to normal people because they have no idea what the consequences can be. Once the consequences become a daily topic this will change. By then it will already be too late, and most will just go along with it because they dont have time to spare fighting it or even understanding it. This is already happening now. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 9:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/68 "2018-09-28T09:50:38Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > This was all about op wanting to get rid of his killboard stats because he sucks at EVE, which is nothing that should concern him because most people suck at EVE. People, including you, have accused me of not playing EVE due to my killboard. See what I mean? People are already using it as a way to track a persons personal activity. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 10:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/69 "2018-09-28T10:14:42Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > People, including you, have accused me of not playing EVE due to my killboard. > > See what I mean? > > People are already using it as a way to track a persons personal activity. A very good example. I used it to track the activity of one single character Salvos Roska. Yet according to you that picture is absolutely wrong because you as a person play other characters as well which I can’t link to this character. So what was the problem again?.. Ah yes you wanted to hide your red killboard. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > By then it will already be too late, and most will just go along with it because they dont have time to spare fighting it or even understanding it. > > This is already happening now. Your message is a bit mixed. It seems like you are saying that all this stuff about actual personal data doesn’t really matter because we are heading for a distopian future anyway, but at the same time we should completely do away with game ladders? ---
**Author:** ![Zachri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zachri/32/69948_2.png) [@Zachri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zachri)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 10:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/70 "2018-09-28T10:18:38Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > I don’t know man. People who basically walk around all day with a surveillance device in their pockets and who document what they eat, check in where they are, on whatever unsocial media is the flavor of the day start to complain about killmails of a virtual character is “profiling” their real persona is a bit strange a pretentious to me. > > There are a gazillion ways how the lawmaker could increase the privacy of people but going after virtual game ladders is not really the first thing that comes to mind. > > This still sounds very much like he wants to hide his super red killboard Regardless of his failings, you’d be surprised how valuable gaming turns out to be for applied science of behavioural analytics. I know I was, well, I was shocked. It’s not something you think about. I mean, you have a life, a job, a wife, one or two mistresses and a flexible secretary. And you play a game. The idea that what you do in that game is used for profiling in service of predictability is … wtf. And yet, it’s a major subset of datamining activity for such commercial activities. In that sense it’s not a bad thing that we’re approaching the subject of privacy as wider than just what the name is and what the job is and how you travel. Because commercial (and other) interests approach it much more broadly already. In his case, what we consider failing, is a datapoint. Seperate from his stupidities I can understand connected concerns of that being used to predetermine him elsewhere. Though I’m not sure if he himself has actually mad that connection already. CCP doesn’t provide personal data (entry points), they adhere to legal requirements. CCP however also does not invest in prevention of platform provisioning. Truth be told, there’s no reason why they should, other than any possible customer perception / brand value issue in relation to the absence of such. Most of the gaming industry doesn’t have such issues (Valve being a notable exception, but that’s logical, size gives visibility). Also, CCP really isn’t in any position to impose limits, what are they going to do, tell ESI platforms to not use Facebook or block XYZ tracking on their platforms? It’s a mess anyhow. There could be a role for companies such as CCP, absolutely. Should they? Maybe. I do think that it is something businesses should consider more than historically. Not so long ago I didn’t, but well, the stuff I’ve seen staff try to tackle has managed to make me pause. Honestly, I’ve completely given up on the notion that real and virtual are seperate. On the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 10:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/71 "2018-09-28T10:26:15Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > A very good example. I used it to track the activity of one single character Salvos Roska. Yet according to you that picture is absolutely wrong because you as a person play other characters as well which I can’t link to this character. So what was the problem again?.. Ah yes you wanted to hide your red killboard. It means you are tracking me as a person, not a character. You infer from the character stats that I am not playing EVE, and then accuse me of that, openly. > [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > It seems like you are saying that all this stuff about actual personal data doesn’t really matter because we are heading for a distopian future anyway, but at the same time we should completely do away with game ladders? It matters a great deal, but is a foregone conclusion. I did not say we should do away with game ladders. ---
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 10:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/72 "2018-09-28T10:27:36Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > A very good example. I used it to track the activity of one single character Salvos Roska. Not really. You drew connection between this character (_one of many_) to real person posting on forums accusing him of lacking game experiences. It does not matter if you right or wrong with your conclusions but you are judging real person based on information collected even if this information only limited to virtual character. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 10:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/73 "2018-09-28T10:31:44Z")
> [@Zachri](#): > > Regardless of his failings, you’d be surprised how valuable gaming turns out to be for applied science of behavioural analytics. I know I was, well, I was shocked. It’s not something you think about. I mean, you have a life, a job, a wife, one or two mistresses and a flexible secretary. And you play a game. The idea that what you do in that game is used for profiling in service of predictability is … wtf. That consultant must be very good. Look, I have seen people fueling the hype train on new technologies over and over again and the management falls for it. I have no doubts that AI and such will have great utility but the stuff they try to sell you today is pure snake oil and will probably not do what they promise you. Don’t get all hyped up about this stuff before you have actually seen it working and verified that it does what is says and I highly doubt you have. > [@Zachri](#): > > CCP doesn’t provide personal data (entry points), they adhere to legal requirements. CCP however also does not invest in prevention of platform provisioning. Truth be told, there’s no reason why they should, other than any possible customer perception / brand value issue in relation to the absence of such. Seriously, if people want to couple their EVE character with their RL persona that is their own business. But they have to face the consequences of that alone and not come to the rest of us and demand that the killboard is taken out because of how it makes them look. > [@Zachri](#): > > Not so long ago I didn’t, but well, the stuff I’ve seen staff try to tackle has managed to make me pause. Once that project fails because the software can’t actually do what they promised, don’t forget to say your forum EVE friend Ima she was right 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 10:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/74 "2018-09-28T10:32:49Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > Don’t get all hyped up about this stuff before you have actually seen it working and verified that it does what is says and I highly doubt you have. He is telling you its already working, and this is just the beginning of how bad it will get. I agree with that. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 10:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/75 "2018-09-28T10:35:18Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > Seriously, if people want to couple their EVE character with their RL persona that is their own business. You arent separate from your EVE character. You direct its actions. This is concretely demonstrated that if you violate game rules, you are responsible, not the character. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 10:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/76 "2018-09-28T10:35:53Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > It means you are tracking me as a person, not a character. > You infer from the character stats that I am not playing EVE, and then accuse me of that, openly. Actually the main source of information that led us to the conclusion that you don’t play EVE is your constant bad posting and not knowing a thing about EVE game mechanics. The killboard is just a minor point that as you already mentioned in another thread doesn’t say a lot. Now that the point is no longer useful for your argument you try to sweep it under the rug. Really tells a lot more about you that the killboard ever could. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 10:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/77 "2018-09-28T10:36:56Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > Really tells a lot more about you that the killboard ever could. Same goes both ways. Your posting tells us a lot about you too. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 10:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/78 "2018-09-28T10:36:59Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > You arent separate from your EVE character. > You direct its actions. This is really difficult for you to separate isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 10:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/79 "2018-09-28T10:37:29Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > > > You arent separate from your EVE character. > > You direct its actions. > > This is really difficult for you to separate isn’t it? If your character violates game rules, whom is responsible? You or the character? ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 10:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/80 "2018-09-28T10:37:31Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Your posting tells us a lot about you too. What does my posting and my killboard tell you about me? ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 10:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/81 "2018-09-28T10:38:20Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > > > Your posting tells us a lot about you too. > > What does my posting and my killboard tell you about me? I cannot express that here, as it would be construed as inappropriate, and read just as a paragraph of block censored text. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 10:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308/82 "2018-09-28T10:39:51Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > I cannot express that here, as it would be construed as inappropriate, and read just as a paragraph of block censored text. Why? Are you aroused by my characters picture? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/legal-ethical-question-regarding-invasive-3rd-party-eve-platforms/109308.md?page=5)