# Let’s talk about suspect flags for T4/5 **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 21, 2019, 9:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057 "2019-07-21T09:02:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Luscius\_Uta](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/luscius_uta/32/385796_2.png) [@Luscius\_Uta](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Luscius_Uta)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 12:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/21 "2019-07-30T12:33:39Z")
Suspect flagging for Abyssal runners would be bad because it would force them to run their sites in desolated systems far away from trade hubs. Let them risk losing their multi-billion ships to few tornadoes by running sites in false safety of highsec. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 1:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/22 "2019-07-30T13:15:24Z")
> [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](#): > > You’re not very bright, are you? But keep whining about it. CCP will sure soon grant your wishes. If the case can be made for null, then so can it be made for high-sec. ---
**Author:** ![Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hoshiko_astarte/32/269371_2.png) [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hoshiko_Astarte)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/23 "2019-07-30T18:10:43Z")
Here, I’ll spell it out for you: Removing suspect flag made it slightly riskier to run them in highsec than nullsec. Before it was entirely preferable to run it in nullsec. You still won’t be able to gank them nullsec because people will run it off their mega bloc’s capital. You’re not gonna have the chance to bring a fleet to enemy capital and just sit there and wait for the guy to come out of his trace. But you can still gank them in highsec with a few tornadoes with the protection of concord. Get it now? ---
**Author:** ![Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hoshiko_astarte/32/269371_2.png) [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hoshiko_Astarte)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 6:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/24 "2019-07-30T18:19:51Z")
Who says high sec did? Do you have stats showing abyssal losses in highsec vs income? No? I didn’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![Janus\_Gregorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/janus_gregorian/32/144827_2.png) [@Janus\_Gregorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Janus_Gregorian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 7:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/25 "2019-07-30T19:08:43Z")
It’s almost as if you’re trying your utter best, using backwards logic, to try and convince people that the risk vs reward for high sec T4/5 is _fine_ without suspect flagging. Surely that’s not the case, right? ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 7:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/26 "2019-07-30T19:11:51Z")
> [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](#): > > Get it now? No. Because you aren’t very good at thinking things through. Whatever plan you have for hi-sec, you can do it for null. So high-sec gankers plan on losing their ships? Why can’t null sec gankers think the same way? As long as they have a ninja looter to get the wreck (if that’s what they are even after) then there isn’t much difference between high and low except for the fact that concord will arrive faster and be more thorough. Right now cloaky ships can sit in a null sec staging system with impunity. They don’t even show up in local anymore. There’s no reason they can’t sit and wait for someone outside if their abyss site. There’s also no reason a high sec abyss player can’t have friends watch over the entrance or his own looter ready to pick up the rewards that the runner ejects into a can. > [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](#): > > Who says high sec did? Do you have stats showing abyssal losses in highsec vs income? No? I didn’t think so. So you think null sec shouldn’t have an income buff due to abyss space. But why do you think highsec should keep it? ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/27 "2019-07-30T19:41:16Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > There’s also no reason a high sec abyss player can’t have friends watch over the entrance or his own looter ready to pick up the rewards that the runner ejects into a can. why would he do that ? gankers are not after the loot. They are after the ship. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > So high-sec gankers plan on losing their ships? Why can’t null sec gankers think the same way? Because they are not protected by concord -.- > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > So you think null sec shouldn’t have an income buff due to abyss space. But why do you think highsec should keep it? Keep what ? if the suspect flag is removed from HS, then the relative buff is removed from nullsec. Does not mean HS gets a buff. > [@Janus\_Gregorian](#): > > It’s almost as if you’re trying your utter best, using backwards logic, to try and convince people that the risk vs reward for high sec T4/5 is _fine_ without suspect flagging. Why do you think suspect flag was removed in the first place ? ---
**Author:** ![Janus\_Gregorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/janus_gregorian/32/144827_2.png) [@Janus\_Gregorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Janus_Gregorian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/28 "2019-07-30T19:51:26Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Why do you think suspect flag was removed in the first place ? CCP’s reasons for doing things don’t necessarily follow logic, trying to prove something makes sense based on that is fairly meaningless. Can you tell us if under the current situation the risk vs reward for high sec T4 and T5 is on par with other high sec options, and isn’t way too good? ---
**Author:** ![Sindrakin\_Gorion](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sindrakin_gorion/32/254940_2.png) [@Sindrakin\_Gorion](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sindrakin_Gorion)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 8:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/29 "2019-07-30T20:07:01Z")
I don’t see your logic. If you don’t like them running Abyssals in HS just gank them. Cruiser fittet for T5 is worth much more than what it takes to gank it so you end up with a fat profit every time. And if it isn’t bling you still gank it - after all you already went over the effort to scan down that trace. It wouldn’t be much fun sitting there ten minutes waiting only to find out you brought the wrong ships and be laughed at by your would be target? ---
**Author:** ![Janus\_Gregorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/janus_gregorian/32/144827_2.png) [@Janus\_Gregorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Janus_Gregorian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 8:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/30 "2019-07-30T20:12:38Z")
It’s like you’re avoiding the question. Can you tell us if under the current situation the risk vs reward for high sec T4 and T5 is on par with other high sec options, and isn’t way too good? ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 8:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/31 "2019-07-30T20:13:15Z")
> [@Janus\_Gregorian](#): > > CCP’s reasons for doing things don’t necessarily follow logic, trying to prove something makes sense based on that is fairly meaningless. funny that you actively try to avoid the question, while it relates to the basis of your arguments. > [@Janus\_Gregorian](#): > > Can you tell us if under the current situation the risk vs reward for high sec T4 and T5 is on par with other high sec options, and isn’t way too good? lol. define precisely (that is, a rigorous definition instead of an arbitrary one) what is the metric of “risk versus reward” and I can tell you if I can or not answer your question. Until then your question is meaningless. > [@Janus\_Gregorian](#): > > It’s like you’re avoiding the question. > > Can you tell us if under the current situation the risk vs reward for high sec T4 and T5 is on par with other high sec options, and isn’t way too good? LOL. I knew one person who was repeating the same question even when told this was stupid. What was his name … ---
**Author:** ![Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hoshiko_astarte/32/269371_2.png) [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hoshiko_Astarte)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 8:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/32 "2019-07-30T20:16:41Z")
It has always been easy and profitable to gank T5 runners in highsec. And they still cry about it because now it actually requires a real “gank” instead of shooting a sitting duck with ZERO risk. “CCP plz make my l33t ‘ganking’ even easier.” Jeez these people are pathetic af. ---
**Author:** ![Sindrakin\_Gorion](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sindrakin_gorion/32/254940_2.png) [@Sindrakin\_Gorion](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sindrakin_Gorion)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 8:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/33 "2019-07-30T20:28:40Z")
> Blockquote risk vs reward for high sec T4 and T5 Yes, because shiny ships are more attractive for gankers and therefore allowing t4/5 without flag encourages more gankers actively looking for traces. Only i wouldn’t trust PIRAT pilots to know how to use combat scanners so maybe theres an actual niche to build a group around the concept? ---
**Author:** ![Janus\_Gregorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/janus_gregorian/32/144827_2.png) [@Janus\_Gregorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Janus_Gregorian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/34 "2019-07-30T20:30:51Z")
Several replies, all trying so hard to avoid the basic question. I’ll make it a bit shorter this time, perhaps that will help. Do you think that high sec T4/T5 payout and risk vs reward is on par with other high sec income options? It’s a simple yes or no question, not too difficult I hope. ---
**Author:** ![Sindrakin\_Gorion](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sindrakin_gorion/32/254940_2.png) [@Sindrakin\_Gorion](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sindrakin_Gorion)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/35 "2019-07-30T20:31:51Z")
yes, incursions pay littel less with waaay less chance of a gank ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 8:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/36 "2019-07-30T20:34:19Z")
Dont! ---
**Author:** ![Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hoshiko_astarte/32/269371_2.png) [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hoshiko_Astarte)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 8:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/37 "2019-07-30T20:35:24Z")
Yes. You’re already putting multi billion ship and pod on the line in abyssal space, plus potential of getting ganked at exist. The simple truth is there’s no defense against a few tornadoes sitting at your exist. The gankers are protected by concord. Last time I checked the break-even point is ~100 sites for T5, which means at \>1% failure rate you incur a net loss. ---
**Author:** ![Janus\_Gregorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/janus_gregorian/32/144827_2.png) [@Janus\_Gregorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Janus_Gregorian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/38 "2019-07-30T20:37:39Z")
Oh and uhm, don’t lie. We’ll know if you do. Try again. ---
**Author:** ![Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hoshiko_astarte/32/269371_2.png) [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hoshiko_Astarte)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 8:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/39 "2019-07-30T20:45:58Z")
> [@Janus\_Gregorian](#): > > don’t lie. We’ll know if you do Take a look in the mirror. ---
**Author:** ![Janus\_Gregorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/janus_gregorian/32/144827_2.png) [@Janus\_Gregorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Janus_Gregorian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 8:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/40 "2019-07-30T20:47:23Z")
> [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](#): > > the break-even point is ~100 sites Don’t lie, try again. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057.md?page=3)