# Let’s talk about suspect flags for T4/5 **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 21, 2019, 9:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057 "2019-07-21T09:02:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 9:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/61 "2019-07-30T21:47:38Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > why would he do that ? > gankers are not after the loot. They are after the ship. They may be after the loot as well. Just because you aren’t doesn’t mean others aren’t. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Because they are not protected by concord -.- No, but apparently they are by super caps…which genius here seems to think is more potent. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Keep what ? The rewards from higher level abyss sites without the risk of suspect. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Why do you think suspect flag was removed in the first place ? Entitled whining by bears. Since CCP seem to be taking a new approach, it doesn’t seem so far fetched that this would be reconsidered. > [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](#): > > It has always been easy and profitable to gank T5 runners in highsec. And they still cry about it because now it actually requires a real “gank” instead of shooting a sitting duck with ZERO risk. “CCP plz make my l33t ‘ganking’ even easier.” Jeez these people are pathetic af. Carebear 101. - Say ganking is easy even though almost no one does it. - Hurl insults because you don’t have any argument. > [@Dragos\_Highwind](#): > > Put a suspect flag on top of that and people just simply won’t do over T3s. In hisec… > [@Dragos\_Highwind](#): > > This alone shows that you have never done these on a consistent basis. I’d agree to this if a simple server connection hiccup didn’t mean losing billions in ship and pod. So the reward is justified by the chance of disconnections? Not by in game factors? Seriously… ---
**Author:** ![Janus\_Gregorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/janus_gregorian/32/144827_2.png) [@Janus\_Gregorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Janus_Gregorian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 9:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/62 "2019-07-30T21:47:59Z")
> [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](#): > > I used 250-300m/hour, which is a more realistic efficiency, 4 sites/hour and 5-6b setup calculation, which is a typical setup for all types of T5s. If you’re gonna use a sub 2b setup you should also account for the significantly increased risk. You made a statement about 50 mil/site and needing 100 sites to break even. I stated that it was about double that and didn’t nearly require that many sites. You called me a liar and in that same post presented evidence that shows… I was correct. And you yet have to respond to that. But sure: 250-300m/hour. Do you think that given the risk these sites have and the effort they take from a single pilot (remember, doesn’t have to wait for incursion fleets to form and do their thing) that that amount of isk/h is warranted, compared to other forms of high sec income? ---
**Author:** ![Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hoshiko_astarte/32/269371_2.png) [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hoshiko_Astarte)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 9:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/63 "2019-07-30T21:49:30Z")
I gave the exact calculation to arrive at that number. Are you blind? ---
**Author:** ![Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hoshiko_astarte/32/269371_2.png) [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hoshiko_Astarte)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 9:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/64 "2019-07-30T21:50:20Z")
Don’t muddy the water here. Show your calculation if you disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Janus\_Gregorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/janus_gregorian/32/144827_2.png) [@Janus\_Gregorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Janus_Gregorian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 9:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/65 "2019-07-30T21:52:04Z")
it’s your own reddit post. The guy did 50 sites, made 5 bil estimated value not counting BPC and his total ship value including implants is 1.2 bil. You yourself presented this evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Dragos\_Highwind](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dragos_highwind/32/170517_2.png) [@Dragos\_Highwind](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dragos_Highwind)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 9:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/66 "2019-07-30T21:52:31Z")
> [@Janus\_Gregorian](#): > > But sure: 250-300m/hour. Do you think that given the risk these sites have and the effort they take from a single pilot (remember, doesn’t have to wait for incursion fleets to form and do their thing) that that amount of isk/h is warranted, compared to other forms of high sec income? As someone that actually _has_ run hundreds and hundreds of sites, yes. 100% whole heartily believe if that person is skilled enough to get that done they have earned that isk. Note that the isk is also coming from players paying from the materials, only a small portion comes from NPC loot. If everyone was able to do this kinda content the loot would be plentiful and worthless. ---
**Author:** ![Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hoshiko_astarte/32/269371_2.png) [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hoshiko_Astarte)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 9:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/67 "2019-07-30T21:53:00Z")
Read my above post again. You really are blind. ---
**Author:** ![Janus\_Gregorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/janus_gregorian/32/144827_2.png) [@Janus\_Gregorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Janus_Gregorian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 9:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/68 "2019-07-30T21:54:29Z")
> [@Dragos\_Highwind](#): > > As someone that actually _has_ run hundreds and hundreds of sites, yes. 100% whole heartily believe if that person is skilled enough to get that done they have earned that isk Then you should probably ask Hoshiko about how to improve, because as you yourself stated you have trouble doing them. Mr 100s of sites. ---
**Author:** ![Janus\_Gregorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/janus_gregorian/32/144827_2.png) [@Janus\_Gregorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Janus_Gregorian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 9:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/69 "2019-07-30T21:55:51Z")
> [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](#): > > Read my above post again. You really are blind. What’s to read, the reddit post you tried to convince me I was wrong, which actually proved my point? But shall we get back on point? Do you think 250-300 mil/h (as you yourself stated) is a reasonable income for high sec? Just answer the question, no need for more tangents. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 9:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/70 "2019-07-30T21:59:09Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > They may be after the loot as well. Just because you aren’t doesn’t mean others aren’t. and maybe they are not ? Please stop talking about theoretical but inexistant cases. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > No, but apparently they are by super caps…which genius here seems to think is more potent. This makes no sense. Just … no sense at all. I tell you that the GANKERS are protected by concord in HS. not by caps … Please stop trying to make irony, you are failing awfully. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Entitled whining by bears. So you don’t know/ don’t want to know. closing your eyes won’t make the problem disappear. > [@Janus\_Gregorian](#): > > Do you think 250-300 mil/h (as you yourself stated) is a reasonable income for high sec? That’s low. Especially if you need to bling your ship and can be scanned and killed at the exit. Even more if you can’t parallel the activity so that two characters do it at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Dragos\_Highwind](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dragos_highwind/32/170517_2.png) [@Dragos\_Highwind](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dragos_Highwind)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/71 "2019-07-30T22:01:41Z")
Everyone has trouble doing them, hence why not everyone _IS_ doing them. Their risk matches (and many times outweighs) their reward. You can judge their payout once you can understand their difficulty. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/c/8/c8fc562b576e1802c10b62fb1c28c4672fc6fecb.png) This is a stat that I’m rather proud of btw. Note that there is not a single T5 completed. This is because even after all those runs I’ve never fit out a ship I’d be comfortable risking in a T5. T4s are plenty risky enough, and my zkill shows it. Add a suspect flag and they simply become not worth it unless you’re hiding in a armpit of null or wormhole. Not exactly engaging for content ---
**Author:** ![Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hoshiko_astarte/32/269371_2.png) [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hoshiko_Astarte)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/72 "2019-07-30T22:05:49Z")
The bigger question is why would anyone take your word if you haven’t run these sites yourself while making wild claims about how hard or difficult the site is? You have zero credibility and your “opinions” are close to meaningless. I don’t run them myself but I’ve at least done research by reading guides and figuring out realistic isk efficiencies. The other crucial point is the income of abyssal is mostly from loots, which balances itself out. If it’s above average reward/risk then more people will run it, which drives loot prices down, which then drives rewards down. If to an outsider like you the rewards sound too high, it probably has a reason for being so. ---
**Author:** ![Haulie\_Berry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haulie_berry/32/388021_2.png) [@Haulie\_Berry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haulie_Berry)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/73 "2019-07-30T22:08:06Z")
> [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](#): > > The other crucial point is the income of abyssal is mostly from loots, which balances itself out. If it’s above average reward/risk then more people will run it, which drives loot prices down, which then drives rewards down. But this also means that a change that deters some people from doing it (such as reinstating the suspect flag) is net-beneficial to the people who successfully manage the additional risk, as they now have fewer competitors in the loot marketplace. ---
**Author:** ![Janus\_Gregorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/janus_gregorian/32/144827_2.png) [@Janus\_Gregorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Janus_Gregorian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/74 "2019-07-30T22:11:43Z")
> [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](#): > > why would anyone take your word if you haven’t run these sites yourself while making wild claims about how hard or difficult the site is? Where did I say that I didn’t? > [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](#): > > I don’t run them myself but I’ve at least done research by reading guides and figuring out realistic isk efficiencies. So YOU haven’t run them but make statements and defend them, while accusing others of not running them. That’s hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/75 "2019-07-30T22:12:42Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > and maybe they are not ? Please stop talking about theoretical but inexistant cases. Like wise then. Your position of gankers being after the ship and not loot is just as theoretical. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > So you don’t know/ don’t want to know. > closing your eyes won’t make the problem disappear. Speaking of irony, who’s wllfully ignorant of the reason suspect was taken away…🙄 > [@Dragos\_Highwind](#): > > Everyone has trouble doing them, hence why not everyone _IS_ doing them. Apperently now no one does them… ---
**Author:** ![Dragos\_Highwind](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dragos_highwind/32/170517_2.png) [@Dragos\_Highwind](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dragos_Highwind)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/76 "2019-07-30T22:17:37Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > > [@Dragos\_Highwind](#): > > > > Everyone has trouble doing them, hence why not everyone _IS_ doing them. > > Apperently now no one does them… A large portion of the runners were using Gila’s to run them. After the aggro change the Gila either gets it’s drones murdered or overall DPS obliterated by constantly dragging them in and out. Many stopped doing them after losing billions. ---
**Author:** ![Janus\_Gregorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/janus_gregorian/32/144827_2.png) [@Janus\_Gregorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Janus_Gregorian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/77 "2019-07-30T22:21:34Z")
> [@Dragos\_Highwind](#): > > Many stopped doing them after losing billions. That’s because the average carebear lacks any sort of effort and can’t get far beyond “Gila/Rattle durrrr”. They’re unable to adapt to changes unless it’s explained to them in memes. Sacrileges are amazing for these sites: high tank, high cap recharge and uses missiles. It can, with slight fitting changes, do all sites. And it can do them cheaply too 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dragos\_Highwind](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dragos_highwind/32/170517_2.png) [@Dragos\_Highwind](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dragos_Highwind)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/78 "2019-07-30T22:25:12Z")
> [@Janus\_Gregorian](#): > > Sacrileges are amazing for these sites: high tank, high cap recharge and uses missiles. It can, with slight fitting changes, do all sites. And it can do them cheaply too 🙂 You seem quite sure of that statement. I’d love to see you attempt anything but a T4 Dark in a Sac that is under 2B pod + ship. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/79 "2019-07-30T22:25:33Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Like wise then. Your position of gankers being after the ship and not loot is just as theoretical. No, it’s logical. The value is in the ship modules that are required to do the sites. Be if for the KM of to gain money, the value is in the ship, not the loot. And the issue is not about “what are the gankers after” but “what can the gankee save” and it’s nothing. Your “theorically he can come in a ship and save the loot” is a waste of an argument. > [@Janus\_Gregorian](#): > > Sacrileges are amazing for these sites: high tank, high cap recharge and uses missiles. It can, with slight fitting changes, do all sites. And it can do them cheaply too 🙂 But you don’t know ! Why do you even give your opinion when you have no experience of this ? ---
**Author:** ![Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hoshiko_astarte/32/269371_2.png) [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hoshiko_Astarte)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/80 "2019-07-30T22:27:16Z")
I’ve run enough T1-T3s and read plenty of guides and did fair amount of research of T4-T5s to know much better than you disingenuous liar. With my above calculation, we’re also talking about break-even point here, meaning to make half of the calculated income you need \<0.5% failure rate. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057.md?page=5)