# Let’s talk about suspect flags for T4/5 **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 21, 2019, 9:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057 "2019-07-21T09:02:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Janus\_Gregorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/janus_gregorian/32/144827_2.png) [@Janus\_Gregorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Janus_Gregorian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/81 "2019-07-30T22:27:48Z")
> [@Dragos\_Highwind](#): > > You seem quite sure of that statement. I’d love to see you attempt anything but a T4 Dark in a Sac that is under 2B pod + ship. When will you start to realise that just because YOU have trouble doing things, others might not. Just go to youtube and search for “eve T5 sacrilege” and report back to us with your findings. Also, 2 bil total is NOT silly expensive. Pays for itself in about 20 runs. ---
**Author:** ![Haulie\_Berry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haulie_berry/32/388021_2.png) [@Haulie\_Berry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haulie_Berry)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/82 "2019-07-30T22:28:08Z")
Man, this thread. You guys know they seed faction items on singularity now, right? ---
**Author:** ![Dragos\_Highwind](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dragos_highwind/32/170517_2.png) [@Dragos\_Highwind](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dragos_Highwind)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/83 "2019-07-30T22:32:37Z")
I gave you a 2B budge because you said it can be done cheap, for abyss that is cheap. > **[Sacrilege | Ship](https://zkillboard.com/ship/12019/losses/)** > > Sacrilege: 380,660 ships destroyed and 36,316 ships lost. Man look how easy abyss is in those Sacrileges. Not a single abyss loss up there. /end sarcasm. Until you can show you have done these sites in any form of numbers your judgement of my skill at doing them means absolutely nothing to me lol. As someone that HAS done the content I can tell you the risk vs reward is plenty without considering a suspect timer. ---
**Author:** ![Janus\_Gregorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/janus_gregorian/32/144827_2.png) [@Janus\_Gregorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Janus_Gregorian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/84 "2019-07-30T22:33:32Z")
People suck at this game, especially carebears. Who knew. If you check the abyssal losses you’ll notice one trend: they all have terrible tanks. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/85 "2019-07-30T22:35:18Z")
I would have thought the Sacs dps far too low for a proper Abyss run? ---
**Author:** ![Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hoshiko_astarte/32/269371_2.png) [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hoshiko_Astarte)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/86 "2019-07-30T22:36:07Z")
> [@Janus\_Gregorian](#): > > go to youtube Which just shows you have no clue of how abyssal even works. The number and types of rat spawns, their positions, the presence of cloud effects, are random. One successful run doesn’t mean jackshit. All it matters is whether you can survive ALL circumstances, without any exceptions. Can you run some sites before start throwing baseless speculations please? ---
**Author:** ![Janus\_Gregorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/janus_gregorian/32/144827_2.png) [@Janus\_Gregorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Janus_Gregorian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/87 "2019-07-30T22:36:34Z")
they’re not highest paper dps but the hams with webs and _some_ drone support works fine. They’re very underlooked because ppl look at Gila vs Sac paper dps and decide on the Gila, even more so as that meshes well with their carebear skills. ---
**Author:** ![Janus\_Gregorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/janus_gregorian/32/144827_2.png) [@Janus\_Gregorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Janus_Gregorian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/88 "2019-07-30T22:37:02Z")
> [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](#): > > Can you run some sites before start throwing baseless speculations please? Can you? ---
**Author:** ![Dragos\_Highwind](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dragos_highwind/32/170517_2.png) [@Dragos\_Highwind](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dragos_Highwind)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/89 "2019-07-30T22:38:53Z")
> [@Janus\_Gregorian](#): > > If you check the abyssal losses you’ll notice one trend: they all have terrible tanks. _facepalm_ and at this point you’re trolling. Goodluck convincing CCP with your extensive knowledge there. ---
**Author:** ![Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hoshiko_astarte/32/269371_2.png) [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hoshiko_Astarte)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/90 "2019-07-30T22:41:20Z")
> [@Janus\_Gregorian](#): > > Can you? > [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](#): > > I’ve run enough T1-T3s and read plenty of guides and did fair amount of research of T4-T5s to know much better than you disingenuous liar. If you want to use a 2b setup then you should also account for significantly increased risks, which is exactly what we’re talking about here. There’s a reason most of T5 guides out there use ~6b setups. ---
**Author:** ![Janus\_Gregorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/janus_gregorian/32/144827_2.png) [@Janus\_Gregorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Janus_Gregorian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/91 "2019-07-30T22:44:09Z")
> [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](#): > > There’s a reason most of T5 guides out there use ~6b setups. Most carebears bling because - cool - allows them to be ■■■■ and lazy - cool Doesn’t mean it’s needed. Seriously, go watch some Sacrilege guides. The ship is SO good for it, making up for lots of the issues, that it doesn’t need silly bling. You can do just fine with \<2 bil ship+implants. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/92 "2019-07-30T22:47:27Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > No, it’s logical. The value is in the ship modules that are required to do the sites. Be if for the KM of to gain money, the value is in the ship, not the loot. It’s also logical that there is also value in the loot. Otherwise why is anyone doing them? I’m not saying gankers are just after the loot. But that there is value in the loot and it’s obviously worth saving. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Your “theorically he can come in a ship and save the loot” is a waste of an argument. Not in comparison to the argument it was made against. ---
**Author:** ![Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hoshiko_astarte/32/269371_2.png) [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hoshiko_Astarte)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/93 "2019-07-30T22:49:37Z")
Lol, just checked Gila’s kb > **[Gila | Ship](https://zkillboard.com/ship/17715/losses/)** > > Gila: 715,266 ships destroyed and 130,877 ships lost. 3.5 pages of Gila losses in a single day and abyssal is probably more than what’s lost in pvp. No wonder CCP wants people to run abyssal. To run T5s in sub 2b ships is playing Russian roulette. You’ll lose it sooner or later. ---
**Author:** ![Janus\_Gregorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/janus_gregorian/32/144827_2.png) [@Janus\_Gregorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Janus_Gregorian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/94 "2019-07-30T22:57:13Z")
So what’s your problem then, you admitted to not doing them and only having seen guides on them. Sounds like it doesn’t affect you. And I’ll repeat: low effort carebear clowns fly Gilas, not surprised they don’t do well. ---
**Author:** ![Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hoshiko_astarte/32/269371_2.png) [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hoshiko_Astarte)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/95 "2019-07-30T22:59:34Z")
> [@Janus\_Gregorian](#): > > it doesn’t affect you I don’t see how it’s relevant to this topic. > [@Janus\_Gregorian](#): > > low effort carebear clowns I have looked back a few days and have not found a single loss to incursion rats. Surely it’s because incursion runners are all high effort l33t players, and not because abyssal carries significantly higher risks? ---
**Author:** ![Janus\_Gregorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/janus_gregorian/32/144827_2.png) [@Janus\_Gregorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Janus_Gregorian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 11:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/96 "2019-07-30T23:01:23Z")
Incursions are a teamsport, you don’t get into an incursion team unless you use a well documented and worked out fitting. Also, you rely on logis so you can be a full on retard in your T1 Rokh and do “fine” as long as your logis don’t suck, and logis are generally hand picked. ---
**Author:** ![Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hoshiko_astarte/32/269371_2.png) [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hoshiko_Astarte)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 11:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/97 "2019-07-30T23:06:12Z")
Don’t dodge the point here. Tell us how abyssal losses are just due to “low effort clowns” and not because of the significantly higher risks. ---
**Author:** ![Janus\_Gregorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/janus_gregorian/32/144827_2.png) [@Janus\_Gregorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Janus_Gregorian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 11:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/98 "2019-07-30T23:13:47Z")
> [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](#): > > Don’t dodge the point here You asked why ppl don’t die in Incursions. I explained why. How is that “avoiding the point”. ---
**Author:** ![Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hoshiko_astarte/32/269371_2.png) [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hoshiko_Astarte)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 11:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/99 "2019-07-30T23:20:26Z")
> [@Hoshiko\_Astarte](#): > > not because abyssal carries significantly higher risks? > [@Janus\_Gregorian](#): > > How is that “avoiding the point”. You’ve proven again and again to be a disingenuous liar. The facts have been laid out clearly in this thread and it’s enough for anyone to make their own judgement on this topic. Don’t forget to come back to bump this thread every day so CCP may one day hear your prayer. See ya. ---
**Author:** ![Janus\_Gregorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/janus_gregorian/32/144827_2.png) [@Janus\_Gregorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Janus_Gregorian)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 11:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057/100 "2019-07-30T23:23:51Z")
Sounds like you don’t like facts and logic, a typical carebear disease. That’s ok. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/let-s-talk-about-suspect-flags-for-t4-5/177057.md?page=6)