# Let's Have Less Waffle And More Reality....Nerfed Procurers **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 8, 2021, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847 "2021-12-08T17:34:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Chan\_aar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chan_aar/32/377560_2.png) [@Chan\_aar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chan_aar)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 11:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/181 "2021-12-14T11:16:13Z")
Neither are subscribers … ---
**Author:** ![Rocket\_Hellfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rocket_hellfire/32/396905_2.png) [@Rocket\_Hellfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rocket_Hellfire)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 4:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/182 "2021-12-14T16:03:54Z")
You do realize that you, and all of the other fools, are arguing about a ship, which is literally the lowest class garbage tier mining barge/exhumer not having anymore broken AF OP defensive and offensive measures? Right?? ‘oH nO! mAh MiNiNg ShIp CaN’t PvP nE mOrE!!’ 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 I’ll join in on the idiocy… CCPlz! When doomsday on my Tayra??? 😱 ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 4:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/183 "2021-12-14T16:08:20Z")
Given that my second comment that you quote was _itself_ irony…you have un-ironised rather than irony, and will have to do various calculations involving the square root of imaginary numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Grimm\_Reborn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/grimm_reborn/32/383573_2.png) [@Grimm\_Reborn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Grimm_Reborn)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 4:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/184 "2021-12-14T16:44:37Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > What’s not to understand ?? You claim the number of gankers in Eve is ‘tiny’. If I can pass through 6 systems…287 people…and 9.5% of those in Local are gankers, what’s not to understand that the ‘tiny’ estimate is way off ? What is all this ‘over the past month’ nonsense ? You keep trying to massage the stats. I passed through 6 systems this morning in High sec and didn’t see a single ganker. Does that mean they all disappeared and i can return to carefree mining? ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 4:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/185 "2021-12-14T16:48:18Z")
> [@Grimm\_Reborn](#): > > I passed through 6 systems this morning in High sec and didn’t see a single ganker. I’ve been mining in a system at 4am and was the only person there. If I return at 4pm, there can often be 30 - 40 people. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 5:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/186 "2021-12-14T17:08:01Z")
And do you mine in a system that has 30-40 people in it? ---
**Author:** ![Xuxe\_Xu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuxe_xu/32/464660_2.png) [@Xuxe\_Xu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuxe_Xu)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 6:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/187 "2021-12-14T18:36:25Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > Given that my second comment that you quote was _itself_ irony…you have un-ironised rather than irony, and will have to do various calculations involving the square root of imaginary numbers. Nah…you _thought_ you were being ironic…but I suppose if you understood you wouldn’t have said it in the first place. You are wildly affecting your numbers…but ok…you seem to be really into those imaginary calculations…have fun. ---
**Author:** ![Leggone\_Stracks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/leggone_stracks/32/290900_2.png) [@Leggone\_Stracks](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Leggone_Stracks)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 3:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/188 "2021-12-16T03:11:51Z")
Time zone tanking. ---
**Author:** ![Kenrailae](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kenrailae/32/494205_2.png) [@Kenrailae](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kenrailae)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 4:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/189 "2021-12-16T04:08:48Z")
> [@Winter Q&A Livestream - December 16](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/winter-q-a-livestream-december-16/341735/49): > > What are CCPs thoughts about ganking mining barges and the recent EHP doubling of those ships? Is CCP aware that ganking those ships and staying semi ISK positive is not possible anymore? Is CCPs plan to make ganking mining-barges in highsec impossible and if yes, what do they plan to do, to reduce botting abuse of the related mechanics that now can be done in unprecedented safety? Here’s one such post in their Q&A live stream, about how CCP is trying to make ganking in high sec impossible. You can choose to quibble over specific wording if you want, but they’re out there. I’ve seen a few of them sprinkled in a few threads now. Mike isn’t spreading misinformation. You either just haven’t seen it, are ignoring it, or don’t recognize it because your biases are fairly well known. ---
**Author:** ![Peaceful\_Industrialist\_Miner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/peaceful_industrialist_miner/32/294138_2.png) [@Peaceful\_Industrialist\_Miner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Peaceful_Industrialist_Miner)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 4:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/190 "2021-12-16T04:14:45Z")
> [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > I’ll just link this here. Generic T2 tank/yield fits with A II crystals, so not even max yield. They already stated to slash the proc and skiff’s align by about 20% d > > ![Mining](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/6/e/9/6e9d104cc93cce9b94bd6fb5f4c3978685985dae.png) These are mining ships they should not really exceed 5-7K EHP for their role but they definately should get much more of a hold. Current holds are totally worthless. ---
**Author:** ![Kenrailae](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kenrailae/32/494205_2.png) [@Kenrailae](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kenrailae)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 4:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/191 "2021-12-16T04:23:45Z")
No. This idea that industrial ships should be completely helpless is wrong. They don’t need to be capital ship levels of tank, either, but they need to be beefy enough to have a reasonable chance of surviving. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 5:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/192 "2021-12-16T05:33:50Z")
> [@Kenrailae](#): > > to have a reasonable chance of surviving. ‘Reasonable’ is unquantifiable. Can you be more specific, Kenrailae? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 5:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/193 "2021-12-16T05:56:54Z")
“They’re out there” and “I’ve seen a few of them” are hardly the same as this massive wall of ganker tears that’s been claimed by the tiny-hearted masses. If the entire point of your reply is “see!? I found one!”, think about the underlying lack of significance of that. ---
**Author:** ![Kenrailae](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kenrailae/32/494205_2.png) [@Kenrailae](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kenrailae)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 12:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/194 "2021-12-16T12:17:37Z")
No, the entire point is not, ‘see, I found one.’ It was just linking back to one that I knew where it was from the past 24 hours. You’re not worth spending anymore time on than that. ---
**Author:** ![Mara\_Pahrdi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mara_pahrdi/32/277369_2.png) [@Mara\_Pahrdi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mara_Pahrdi)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 1:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/195 "2021-12-16T13:17:54Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > all of a sudden I find it’s going to require 9 days of skills training to upgrade to Hull Upgrades V It has never been a good idea to not train basic skills just because… And all that while sitting there in space doing… nothing? ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 1:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/196 "2021-12-16T13:18:18Z")
> [@Leggone\_Stracks](#): > > Time zone tanking. Well, yes indeed. There is a certain perfect time slot for mining. You don’t have to worry about ganking when there’s only a handful of people in the entire system. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 1:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/197 "2021-12-16T13:26:57Z")
> [@Mara\_Pahrdi](#): > > It has never been a good idea to not train basic skills just because… And all that while sitting there in space doing… nothing? It’s not as simple as that. This account had numerous other skills in a queue that had actually been stopped in order to let another character progress. Far from ‘doing nothing’ I’ve been setting up two other characters, creating a corporation, and more besides. ---
**Author:** ![Mara\_Pahrdi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mara_pahrdi/32/277369_2.png) [@Mara\_Pahrdi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mara_Pahrdi)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 1:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/198 "2021-12-16T13:51:22Z")
Yes. We’ve all been there… ---
**Author:** ![Cara\_Lube](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cara_lube/32/297237_2.png) [@Cara\_Lube](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cara_Lube)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 2:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/199 "2021-12-16T14:13:40Z")
> [@Peaceful\_Industrialist\_Miner](#): > > > [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > > > I’ll just link this here. Generic T2 tank/yield fits with A II crystals, so not even max yield. They already stated to slash the proc and skiff’s align by about 20% d > > > > ![Mining](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/6/e/9/6e9d104cc93cce9b94bd6fb5f4c3978685985dae.png) > > **These are mining ships they should not really exceed 5-7K EHP for their role** but they definately should get much more of a hold. Current holds are totally worthless. If they ought to be throwaway tools, they do need that pricetag… up to 500+mio (including fitting) should not be an easy/sure-pray for an alpha-acc I have no problem with beeing easily killeable if my loss is comparable to their loss… ---
**Author:** ![Peaceful\_Industrialist\_Miner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/peaceful_industrialist_miner/32/294138_2.png) [@Peaceful\_Industrialist\_Miner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Peaceful_Industrialist_Miner)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 5:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/200 "2021-12-16T17:20:06Z")
> [@Cara\_Lube](#): > > If they ought to be throwaway tools, they do need that pricetag… up to 500+mio (including fitting) should not be an easy/sure-pray for an alpha-acc > I have no problem with beeing easily killeable if my loss is comparable to their loss… They are more than comparable when solo miners are averaging billions per week mining in highsec. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847.md?page=9) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847.md?page=11)