# Let's Have Less Waffle And More Reality....Nerfed Procurers **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 8, 2021, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847 "2021-12-08T17:34:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 7:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/21 "2021-12-08T19:26:55Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > I’d still like to see some of those tears. Why isn’t anyone linking the threads/posts? The reason you never ‘see’ the tears is because of the reverse psychology in which everyone else is salty. The minute you grasp that ‘calm down, miner’ is being uttered by someone who themselves is anything but calm…you can see the salt all over the place 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 7:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/22 "2021-12-08T19:29:37Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > The minute you grasp that ‘calm down, miner’ is being uttered by someone who themselves is anything but calm…you can see the salt all over the place The quote from Mike though isn’t about “miner calm down”. It’s about > [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > I also have been told the gankers are decrying the end of hisec ganking because of all the nerfs to their lifestyle. Should be easy to point to if it’s true that gankers are decrying the end of suicide ganking. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 7:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/23 "2021-12-08T19:32:30Z")
Look at Bulkheads… ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/24 "2021-12-08T19:33:33Z")
What? No, that’s a ridiculous moving of the goal posts. The claim in this case, made by two different people at this point, is very concrete: gankers are crying about the changes. I’d like to see some evidence of this. What is this, like the scene from The Dark Knight Rises where Bane tells Batman that he’ll just have to _imagine_ the fire? Am I going to just have to _imagine_ the crying? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 7:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/25 "2021-12-08T19:47:57Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > The claim in this case, made by two different people at this point, is very concrete: gankers are crying about the changes. ? Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 7:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/26 "2021-12-08T19:51:30Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > I don’t think it ever quite occurred to CCP that the changes were going to result in people who’d been happily mining in their Procs beforehand…all of a sudden needing 9 days of skills updates. I’m quite sure that’s why they made this change. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 8:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/27 "2021-12-08T20:05:34Z")
You know what, I just did some digging and checked out Reddit and Steam, and **literally every single thread** is rage against CCP’s changes to mining, with most of it being misinformation about barge EHP being decreased, waste lowering mining yields, etc. etc., and just a giant load of asinine whining about mining and industry that’s written by people who sound like their RL bot farm income has been axed and they won’t afford to make rent next month. Stop spreading misinformation about gankers crying about anything. There isn’t a _single thread_ like that anywhere. Go look for yourself. @Mike_Azariah You of all people shouldn’t be spreading rumors around. You’re literally the only CSM we have that doesn’t represent some kind of special interests platform. If we can’t trust you to be objective, who _can_ we trust? ---
**Author:** ![Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avaelica_kuershin/32/478139_2.png) [@Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avaelica_Kuershin)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 8:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/28 "2021-12-08T20:06:02Z")
Exactly. Hull tanking the Procurer is viable. Don’t know why anyone would armour tank their barge. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 9:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/29 "2021-12-08T21:50:02Z")
Just out of curiousity, what was the to warp time of it before the change? I cant remember. ---
**Author:** ![Locke\_Deninard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/locke_deninard/32/296226_2.png) [@Locke\_Deninard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Locke_Deninard)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 10:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/30 "2021-12-08T22:17:21Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > I wonder what your sources are for that. As far as I know, the only way that gankers have responded is by starting to train extra characters. I’ll just leave this here for you: > [@New EHP Balance of the Mining Ships and Outcome](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-ehp-balance-of-the-mining-ships-and-outcome/340234): > > My question to the CSM: CCP is proposing to effectively double the EHP of miners. Are they also aware this will end Highsec miner ganking, and provide absolute safety to miners in Highsec? Has CCP considered the longterm economic ramifications to Highsec mining invulnerability? There is a math behind suicide ganking. A lot of effort on top of the these calculations. Anybody who know the MATH will understand. Does CCP actually intend to make Highsec mining an activity which is exempt from PvP… ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 10:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/31 "2021-12-08T22:24:43Z")
Ok so theres one, from someone Ive never heard of. Of course, Ive not heard of lots of people. So, one vs 4000000000. Its a start I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Locke\_Deninard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/locke_deninard/32/296226_2.png) [@Locke\_Deninard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Locke_Deninard)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 10:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/32 "2021-12-08T22:25:19Z")
I’m not here to judge. Just passing on the message. ---
**Author:** ![Uninstallation\_Assistant](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uninstallation_assistant/32/296756_2.png) [@Uninstallation\_Assistant](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uninstallation_Assistant)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 10:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/33 "2021-12-08T22:29:15Z")
but these changes are going to benefit gankers, right? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 10:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/34 "2021-12-08T22:30:51Z")
> [@Locke\_Deninard](#): > > > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > > > I wonder what your sources are for that. As far as I know, the only way that **gankers have responded** is by starting to train extra characters. > > I’ll just leave this here for you: > > > [@](#): > > > > My question to the CSM: CCP is proposing to effectively double the EHP of miners. Are they also aware this will end Highsec miner ganking, and provide absolute safety to miners in Highsec? Has CCP considered the longterm economic ramifications to Highsec mining invulnerability? There is a math behind suicide ganking. A lot of effort on top of the these calculations. Anybody who know the MATH will understand. Does CCP actually intend to make Highsec mining an activity which is exempt from PvP… > [@New EHP Balance of the Mining Ships and Outcome](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-ehp-balance-of-the-mining-ships-and-outcome/340234/26): > > Actually . No i am not a ganker Thanks for trying. ---
**Author:** ![Locke\_Deninard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/locke_deninard/32/296226_2.png) [@Locke\_Deninard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Locke_Deninard)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 10:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/35 "2021-12-08T22:41:13Z")
Trying what? You wanted gank complaining and I gave it to you. They even referenced what the “princess” or whatever said. A simple thanks would have been sufficient but you seem defensive and combative instead. I’m not going to waste any more time on this. Just wanted to help. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 10:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/36 "2021-12-08T22:44:59Z")
No, friend, here’s what I said: > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > As far as I know, the only way that **gankers have responded** is by starting to train extra characters. Then here’s what you said, in an effort to prove me wrong: > [@Locke\_Deninard](#): > > I’ll just leave this here for you: And here’s what the person you’re referencing said: > [@New EHP Balance of the Mining Ships and Outcome](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-ehp-balance-of-the-mining-ships-and-outcome/340234/26): > > Actually . No i am not a ganker Please don’t move the goal posts by transforming my claim about how **gankers** are responding to the situation, into what random players are saying about ganking. Once again, thanks for trying. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 10:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/37 "2021-12-08T22:45:49Z")
So… What was the old align n warp? for a proc ---
**Author:** ![Locke\_Deninard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/locke_deninard/32/296226_2.png) [@Locke\_Deninard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Locke_Deninard)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 10:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/38 "2021-12-08T22:51:47Z")
👋 👋 👋 ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 11:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/39 "2021-12-08T23:13:23Z")
20 seconds of searching turned up this: > [@CCP's 100 Percent Legit EHP Doubling Service](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccps-100-percent-legit-ehp-doubling-service/340200): > > So it is my understanding that CCP plans to double the EHP of barges and exhumers. This would be a very extreme change and I believe it would be akin to taking two steps back in terms of what scarcity had sought out to correct from the very start. Granted, this is supposed to be the “end” of scarcity, and great, finally, yes, but it is clear with this proposed change that the pendulum has been allowed to swing quite violently in the other direction, like a wrecking ball hurtling towards the tow… Not that it matters anyway. The only occasional ganker I’ve personally heard comment on it says it shouldn’t make any difference, because the miners they remove from “their space” don’t fit for tank anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Aegean](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aegean/32/296336_2.png) [@Aegean](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aegean)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 11:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/40 "2021-12-08T23:13:37Z")
I have bring some of my concerns to attention of CSM , hope them deliver to the CCP . You dont give a single ■■■■ ? . And today you lost my all respect . There is no descent way to discus about a subject or share concerns ? I have been expecting you to be more holistic and neutral when it comes to evaluating variables may take effect on balance in eco system There are no biased mindset can come to make healty evaluations about the ecosystem . Yes i am not a ganker . Since this is all your focus and you dont care the rest .I am sitting and looking at your small character icon and thinking about the mindset you have … makes you believe in lie you created out of your mind . I do respect all different gameplay styles as long as suitable to game mechanics and hold myself neutral . To be able to make healty evaluations … keep my mind clear . Also Might be a random person for “ you” … but that should not be enough to dismiss my concerns … last 3 days i have talk severeal indy high and null leaders as well as 2 biggest gank organisations leaders … to hear their insights … I have still have concerns and still hoping to be wrong . And i wrote down my concerns . [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847.md?page=3)