# Let's Have Less Waffle And More Reality....Nerfed Procurers **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 8, 2021, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847 "2021-12-08T17:34:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![LeFleur](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lefleur/32/300452_2.png) [@LeFleur](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/LeFleur)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 1:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/121 "2021-12-10T13:34:35Z")
Well, the old hold of the procurer meant that there was a certain amount of time I needed to pay attention and then go to station to unload, and go afk a little to relax. The new hold means more stress time… ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 1:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/122 "2021-12-10T13:36:16Z")
Sure but now all 3 barges and exhumers are viable in their own ways, you have a realistic choice based on your preferences. Previously anything but a procurer was a silly idea. ---
**Author:** ![Duella\_Cre\_Vil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/duella_cre_vil/32/297348_2.png) [@Duella\_Cre\_Vil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Duella_Cre_Vil)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 1:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/123 "2021-12-10T13:36:47Z")
And so it begins Where’s Gix to zpice this thread up XD ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 1:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/124 "2021-12-10T13:41:18Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > You know what? It’s going to be much easier for all of us if you just provide your own figure for the amount of gankers, and the statistical methodology you used to arrive at it. I’ve already told you. I go by what I actually _see_ and experience. If someone tells me it’s sunny outside and I open the curtains and it is actually pouring with rain…I know they are wrong. Plus your simplistic stats fail to take into account the mobility of such groups…again something I have observed first hand. They don’t _need_ huge numbers when there’s scouts, people roaming from system to system. etc. I have actually watched their activity…even been followed myself across several systems. This is all actual direct experience…as opposed to figures you just plucked out of the air. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 1:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/125 "2021-12-10T13:54:04Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > It’s been a while since I did any tracking/counting of ganking as a percentage activity of overall gameplay because it takes a lot of time, characters and flying around. But that’s exactly what I _have_ done. Added to ‘bad standing’ everyone who’s name appears in zkillboard as a ganker over the past month. And the sheer amount of red that appears in local is quite revealing…you’d never know there were so many gankers about without doing that. To counter the claim that these people ‘are not ganking all the time’…I have even watched their activity. And sure, they are not getting kills day after day…but the activity is exactly what you’d expect from people scouting out systems, constantly moving around local systems and back again ( yet never involved in any mining etc ) and lurking either at or just outside stations or gates. They are _clearly_ up to no good. Without adding these people to bad standing one would have zero idea any of this was going on. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 1:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/126 "2021-12-10T13:56:09Z")
> [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > Having said that, I have my own AG thingy going on where I “patrol” Uedama but it’s not really all that active in the times that I do it. Yes, if you want to make all the gankers go away, just fit yourself in an anti-gank ship and head out to a gankzone and wait. And wait. Because by the magic of RNGesus, that’s exactly when they’ll all be off making tea or fluffing their pillows and you’ll sit for an hour seeing nothing. Then of course you log off and six freighters get ganked in the next system over. It can be frustrating. I’m almost minded to do another survey and see if things have changed since the last time, if I can get time over the holidays. (Edit: as a side note for @Cilla_Cybin, adding these people to Bad Standing is exactly what every “how to avoid ganks in high sec” guide tells you to do, so you can safely assume anyone serious about the process has already done that) ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 2:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/127 "2021-12-10T14:15:23Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Yes, if you want to make all the gankers go away, just fit yourself in an anti-gank ship and head out to a gankzone and wait. And wait. Because by the magic of RNGesus, that’s exactly when they’ll all be off making tea or fluffing their pillows and you’ll sit for an hour seeing nothing. It is worse than that, because when they do gank, you will find it is a completely un-tanked ship that melts so easily you might as well have not bothered being there at all. That being said there are several people doing great stuff in Uedama. ---
**Author:** ![Aaaarrgg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaaarrgg/32/395089_2.png) [@Aaaarrgg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaaarrgg)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 2:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/128 "2021-12-10T14:38:02Z")
usually the reason they are being ganked is _because_ they are completely untanked, dont blame us for this, not our fault 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Aaaarrgg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaaarrgg/32/395089_2.png) [@Aaaarrgg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaaarrgg)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 2:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/129 "2021-12-10T14:43:13Z")
if you left uedama during peak ganking times you wouldnt see so many “gankers” also i wonder how many you have set red are not actually gankers at all. i am a ganker though and i sit in many gank channels watching the kills come in and i can say that many nights i can count the number of active gankers on the fingers of one hand and have fingers left over. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 2:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/130 "2021-12-10T14:54:14Z")
> [@Aaaarrgg](#): > > usually the reason they are being ganked is _because_ they are completely untanked, dont blame us for this, not our fault Do you have something that actually says ’ this barge has XYZ of EHP’ ? Otherwise you’re having to do mental gymnastics if your scanner simply says Damage Control II, 800mm Steel Plates, etc, etc…or are the mental gymnastics second nature by now ? ---
**Author:** ![Aaaarrgg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaaarrgg/32/395089_2.png) [@Aaaarrgg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaaarrgg)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 3:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/131 "2021-12-10T15:03:28Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > Do you have something that actually says ’ this barge has XYZ of EHP’ yes , also the ingame fitting tool can be handy or so i am reliably told > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > or are the mental gymnastics second nature by now ? if i see a hauler that is octuple antitanked i can guess its got not much tank. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/132 "2021-12-10T15:08:10Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > (Edit: as a side note for @Cilla_Cybin, adding these people to Bad Standing is exactly what every “how to avoid ganks in high sec” guide tells you to do, so you can safely assume anyone serious about the process has already done that) A very typical example that I recorded only yesterday travelling from Trossere to Dodixie to get stuff. The numbers of people showing in red… Trossere…4 out of 45 people Vittenyn…6 out of 37 people Bourynes…3 out of 39 people Ethernity…2 out of 20 people Athinard…0 out of 5 people Dodixie…12 out of 140 people That is 9.5% of all the people. Not exactly the ‘tiny’ that Destiny would have us believe. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 3:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/133 "2021-12-10T15:23:25Z")
Well yeah, because you’re looking at a region within 5 jumps out of a trade hub that’s got a lot of newer/less experienced players in it. So if you’re counting gankers, hanging out in ganker hunting grounds is going to show you a disproportionately high number. It also depends on how broad you’re being with your standings markers. If you mark every entity that’s ever engaged in any PvP in the past month or two, your net is going to be huge. If you mark only pilots/corps/alliances that _primarily_ or _significantly_ engage in PvP (it’s a main activity) then your numbers will be quite a bit more refined. ---
**Author:** ![Nico\_Christened](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nico_christened/32/439994_2.png) [@Nico\_Christened](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nico_Christened)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 3:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/134 "2021-12-10T15:31:15Z")
The dumb changes your highlighting are nothing more than a bone thrown to the worst elements of the pvp community: high sec gankers looking for soft targets. They weakened tanks on effective miners and boosted floating targets for those working around Concord mechanics to hunt pve’rs. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 3:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/135 "2021-12-10T15:40:42Z")
A lot of Ganker fear in this thread. They sense their demise and are running scared. All your arguments, justifications and obfuscations are not going to change the very clear path CCP/PA has decided to take with you lot. You kept poking the bear and the bear is starting to get annoyed. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Aaaarrgg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaaarrgg/32/395089_2.png) [@Aaaarrgg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaaarrgg)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 3:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/136 "2021-12-10T15:41:46Z")
what miners got their tanks reduced ? have you even looked at the massive and i mean massive tank buffs miners just got . ---
**Author:** ![Aaaarrgg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaaarrgg/32/395089_2.png) [@Aaaarrgg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaaarrgg)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 3:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/137 "2021-12-10T15:42:30Z")
suicide gankers never fear their own demise, they infact look forward to it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 3:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/138 "2021-12-10T15:45:46Z")
Laugh it up, fuzzball. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Aaaarrgg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaaarrgg/32/395089_2.png) [@Aaaarrgg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaaarrgg)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 3:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/139 "2021-12-10T15:48:03Z")
if ccp really wants the last of the few content creaters that they havent chased away yet to leave all they have to do is politely ask and we will go, then you can have fun with the trammel that you desire. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 4:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/140 "2021-12-10T16:00:19Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > I’ve already told you. I go by what I actually _see_ and experience. If someone tells me it’s sunny outside and I open the curtains and it is actually pouring with rain…I know they are wrong. Plus your simplistic stats fail to take into account the mobility of such groups…again something I have observed first hand. They don’t _need_ huge numbers when there’s scouts, people roaming from system to system. etc. I have actually watched their activity…even been followed myself across several systems. This is all actual direct experience…as opposed to figures you just plucked out of the air. That’s not an objective, scientific methodology. At the very least, you have to actually compile your observations into a data set that you can present to us. Just telling us that you’ve observed this and that is entirely meaningless. Give us some actual numbers. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > as opposed to figures you just plucked out of the air. No, **you** are plucking figures out of the air. My figures are coming from ESI-verified kill records compiled on a trusted aggregator of PvP activity in EVE. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > That is 9.5% of all the people. Not exactly the ‘tiny’ that Destiny would have us believe. If you think that 9.5% of all players are gankers…LOL Let me guess, you saw some Goon freighter kills and decided to set their whole alliance red? Dodixie has almost zero historical CONCORD activity and makes up nearly half of your “observed gankers.” > [@Mr\_Epeen](#): > > Laugh it up, fuzzball. Nice rage! [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847.md?page=8)