# Let's Have Less Waffle And More Reality....Nerfed Procurers **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 8, 2021, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847 "2021-12-08T17:34:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 6:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/161 "2021-12-10T18:18:30Z")
> [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > IF CCP has 200 ‘I am leaving the game because Hisec is not even close to safe’ exit surveys in a given month why in hells name would they allow your tiny population of ganking game players to cost them such a large number of customers over time? Same reasons they let wardecs distort game activity for so long: - Either they haven’t even bothered to do the math, or - They’ve done the math, but didn’t interpret it correctly, and feel it’s “good for the economy”, or - They’ve done the math, correctly interpreted it, realized it’s not good for the overall health of the playerbase, but are stubbornly stuck in the rut of “It’s always been part of the core EVE experience and always will be. It’s not _our_ fault if players don’t want to participate in PvP.” (Hot tip for CCP: It _is_ your fault.) ---
**Author:** ![Aaaarrgg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaaarrgg/32/395089_2.png) [@Aaaarrgg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaaarrgg)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 6:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/162 "2021-12-10T18:38:08Z")
alternately they investigated and got the hard data ,"did the math"and they found that despite the vocal 2 or 3 folk against the feature it wasnt an issue ---
**Author:** ![Adm\_Malkaviano](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/adm_malkaviano/32/496610_2.png) [@Adm\_Malkaviano](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Adm_Malkaviano)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 6:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/163 "2021-12-10T18:50:54Z")
> [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > problem starts when people “chill” running a billion accounts, all mining, where it looks weird and wrong for people to run into those groups and where they mess up the economy. It only goes worse from here, I only hope CCP realizes multibox is baaaaaaad. ---
**Author:** ![Nico\_Christened](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nico_christened/32/439994_2.png) [@Nico\_Christened](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nico_Christened)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 6:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/164 "2021-12-10T18:52:04Z")
High sec shouldn’t be filled with gankers in the 1st place. It’s ridiculous every element of Eve has been updated except Concord. If someone decides to engage in a high sec gank they should see a massive security rating hit. Like, -5 a pop, or something huge enough to really make someone think about whether their target warrants the hit. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 6:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/165 "2021-12-10T18:54:45Z")
> [@Aaaarrgg](#): > > alternately they investigated and got the hard data ,"did the math"and they found that despite the vocal 2 or 3 folk against the feature it wasnt an issue That is possible of course and would be my own guess. I was responding to Mike’s “what if?” question of if there were 200 gankers and many “I quit because ganked” surveys. That said, I doubt ganking has a _positive_ effect on the game either. As stated (many times), if it takes 20 ganks a month to keep your average ganker happy, say, then that’s 20 unhappy players to every happy ganker. Every MMO out there that’s ‘done the math’ has concluded non-consensual full-loot PvP has a negative effect on playership. I expect CCP has done that math as well, but concluded “we don’t care because that’s our niche”. Which may well be the case. It’s a space economy game that lures just enough asymmetric-PvP malcontents in so everyone can pretend they’re playing “hard-core”. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 7:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/166 "2021-12-10T19:22:12Z")
> [@Nico\_Christened](#): > > High sec shouldn’t be filled with gankers in the 1st place. It’s ridiculous every element of Eve has been updated except Concord. If someone decides to engage in a high sec gank they should see a massive security rating hit. Like, -5 a pop, or something huge enough to really make someone think about whether their target warrants the hit. If they don’t care about sec hits now, why would they care about sec hits then? The only players you’d end up hurting are the rookies who shoot someone (or some in-space object) by accident, or get baited into doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 7:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/167 "2021-12-10T19:44:58Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > I expect CCP has done that math as well, but concluded “we don’t care because that’s our niche”. Which may well be the case. It’s a space economy game that lures just enough asymmetric-PvP malcontents in so everyone can pretend they’re playing “hard-core”. But this bizarre asymmetry almost seems to rely on a sort of Stockholm Syndrome on the part of miners are other gankees, in which they play the ‘wildebeast’ to the narcissistic, self-appointed’ ‘lions’. CCP need to add some background ‘music for miners’… [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/b/0/6/b06db56e6e4264de71e1fe1ededb88f030ef0a61.jpeg "velvet underground - venus in furs") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwzaifhSw2c) ---
**Author:** ![Aaaarrgg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaaarrgg/32/395089_2.png) [@Aaaarrgg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaaarrgg)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 8:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/168 "2021-12-10T20:03:12Z")
maybe just maybe these “miners” enjoy the challenge and satisfaction of evading the gankers and appreciate the value they create for their product , something they dont get in other safe games. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 8:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/169 "2021-12-10T20:15:57Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > But this bizarre asymmetry almost seems to rely on a sort of Stockholm Syndrome on the part of miners are other gankees, in which they play the ‘wildebeast’ to the narcissistic, self-appointed’ ‘lions’. Well, this may be the case. After all, there are about 1.5 million wildebeest and maybe around 20,000 lions in the world. Although behaviourally, gankers are clearly vultures and the general PvP population are hyenas, regardless of the image they prefer to picture themselves as. Ganking and PvP gets a lot more noise than it warrants. The vast majority of miners and PvErs go about their business day after day without ever seeing a PvP attempt. It’s rare enough, in fact, that it comes as a _surprise_ to many players when it _does_ happen to them. There’s generally a couple dozen unhappy PvE victims on the forums, and generally a roughly equal number of PvPers trying to convince themselves they’re a significant factor in the game, or deal with their “small dog syndrome” issues by yapping and snarling a lot to make sure they get noticed. The trillions of ISK passing through the EVE economy each month barely even notice. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 8:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/170 "2021-12-10T20:21:12Z")
So… I shouldnt complain about 10% of players being gankers? ??? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 8:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/171 "2021-12-10T20:22:31Z")
It’s obviously way too much. CCP should nerf ganking until there are only maybe about 200 or so gankers left in the game, then it would be a more balanced distribution of play styles. ---
**Author:** ![Aegean](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aegean/32/296336_2.png) [@Aegean](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aegean)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 8:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/172 "2021-12-10T20:28:43Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > But this bizarre asymmetry almost seems to rely on a sort of Stockholm Syndrome on the part of miners are other gankees, in which they play the ‘wildebeast’ to the narcissistic, self-appointed’ ‘lions’. It is not “ stockholm syndrome” . Miners who knows the value of their product depends on also supply / demand balance . They have a mind of businessman who can see the results of limitless resource extraction and production. They do compete with the items they extract and produce… And they can predict the long term effects. They dont just grasped and tortured by the idea of ship loss , ego hurt, being little sparrow tear apart by a hyena … They think larger, more complex … > [@Aaaarrgg](#): > > maybe just maybe these “miners” enjoy the challenge and satisfaction of evading the gankers and appreciate the value they create for their product , something they dont get in other safe games. They do . At least the intelligent ones… i show those stats to my best friend , he is CEO of a very old and grounded indy corp. His first reaction was WTF… the he said this leads to poliferation. Officially at this moment … balance is in the mercy of the gankers… else it ■■■■■■… Else CCP will need to introduce some NPC gankers … and this will cause massive protest from the carebears towards CCP… At least now CCP can just be able to keep their hand clean off and use gankers as “sin goats” … and i am not really happy with this two faced attitude … so for now baaad baaad gankers huh ? What if they stop? ---
**Author:** ![Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avaelica_kuershin/32/478139_2.png) [@Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avaelica_Kuershin)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2021, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/173 "2021-12-10T20:39:33Z")
It’s obvious I should set some standings and see just how many gankers do exist along the main routes. That Uedama is the only real chokepoint after the Pakhshi-Irgrus gate was activated should be something considered when discussing ganker numbers. Anyway, the retriever actually looks viable now, and even that benefits from hull tanking like the procurer. Won’t deny the loss of the two midslots does mean compromises have to be made. ---
**Author:** ![Leggone\_Stracks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/leggone_stracks/32/290900_2.png) [@Leggone\_Stracks](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Leggone_Stracks)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2021, 2:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/174 "2021-12-11T02:48:37Z")
I’ve lost all kinds of stuff to gankers. Gankers keep us honest. It ain’t fun losing a ship, but it ain’t fun sitting around doing nothing either. Up your tank so your tank exceeds your vulnerability. Keeps us all on our toes. You fly bling, you get the same results as someone wearing the crown jewels to the 7-Eleven outside the trailer park. For hauling I LOVE my little PoorMansProwler wreathe fitted for the MWD cloaky trick. Do the Eve, do the thing, do the fun. C’mon, man! ---
**Author:** ![Leggone\_Stracks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/leggone_stracks/32/290900_2.png) [@Leggone\_Stracks](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Leggone_Stracks)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2021, 2:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/175 "2021-12-11T02:56:20Z")
Talking off the cuff here, (Mmmm…Scotch…) but there is an interesting long dead end that starts at the system Kasi. It is fairly deep, high sec and has belts all the way down. Might be a good place to work some Retrievers. Amar space. I haven’t mentioned it recently, but I HATE the Triglavian exploding crow bar that CCP threw into the game. Oh. Look, #$#@$%&%^ null sec skated off that stuff. I wonder what percentage of Null $$ for isk runs CCP. Mmmmm…Scotch… ---
**Author:** ![Bonnie\_Peebles](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bonnie_peebles/32/407537_2.png) [@Bonnie\_Peebles](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bonnie_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2021, 7:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/176 "2021-12-11T19:06:47Z")
Excuse me, what is a ‘Procurer’ yall talkin about? And why would anyone want to put low-slot Steel Plates on a shield-tanked ship like mining ones, insteal of Mining Upgrades II? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2021, 7:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/177 "2021-12-11T19:11:43Z")
> [@Bonnie\_Peebles](#): > > Excuse me, what is a ‘Procurer’ yall talkin about It’s a rare Alliance Tournament frigate with OP bonuses. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Xuxe\_Xu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuxe_xu/32/464660_2.png) [@Xuxe\_Xu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuxe_Xu)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2021, 7:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/178 "2021-12-11T19:32:52Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > This isn’t once in a blue moon…this is all day long. You’re right. Gankers are everywhere. They always see everything, and they always win. Always. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > Actual Eve experience doesn’t matter ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/3/2/323e19cf32083bb65fb9595d6d1ab2a04c325254.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2021, 8:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/179 "2021-12-11T20:43:27Z")
CCP needs to do something about this. Gankers are making up like 60% of the game’s population now and it’s getting out of control. I was in a system today and like 24 of the 40 people inside were gankers. That is absolutely ridiculous. At the rate they’re multiplying, very soon the game is going to be like 120% gankers. How is EVE going to survive like that? ---
**Author:** ![Starfall\_Achura](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/starfall_achura/32/296182_2.png) [@Starfall\_Achura](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Starfall_Achura)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 9:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-have-less-waffle-and-more-reality-nerfed-procurers/340847/180 "2021-12-14T09:34:02Z")
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