# Let's talk about Bombers Bar **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [March 23, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-bombers-bar/65523 "2018-03-23T20:48:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-bombers-bar/65523/21 "2018-03-24T20:55:17Z")
> [@Raw\_Matters](#): > > Except that the fatigue does not apply to the player but to the WH exit itself. … what about the far more prominent use of rage rolling to find content with other WH groups ---
**Author:** ![Raw\_Matters](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/raw_matters/32/462866_2.png) [@Raw\_Matters](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Raw_Matters)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-bombers-bar/65523/22 "2018-03-27T20:21:14Z")
You all seem to be under the impression that the average corp size of ppl in 0.0 is somewhere around 1000. Breaking news: the majority of corps can’t have a backup of 100 dreads simply because they don’t have enough chars to even fly that many ships. Now what does a corp with currently 15 ppl online do if 60 fall out of a WH? Dock and wait. Defending that particular Rorqual at that point was discussed but concluded that all that we would have been able to bring at that moment would have simply been destroyed as well. And again: it is perfectly fine that 60 enemies can roll 15 defenders. That how it should be, nothing to change here. The fact however that those 60 people can appear anywhere in a moment’s notice is what is the problem here. Now what could be the solution to this problem of infinite surprise attacks? 1. Don’t go into 0.0 unless you can have 100 dreads ready to defend 24/7. 2. Don’t fly any ships in 0.0 at all. 3. Fix the WH re-roll mechanic. That the attackers say 1 or 2 is obvious, because they just love their free kills and free ISK. But from an objective point of view WH re-rolling is a problematic game mechanic that needs to be fixed. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_dunning_kruger/32/414724_2.png) [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Dunning_Kruger)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-bombers-bar/65523/23 "2018-03-27T20:25:11Z")
> [@Raw\_Matters](#): > > Defending that particular Rorqual at that point was discussed but concluded that all that we would have been able to bring at that moment would have simply been destroyed as well. You’re seriously telling us that you couldn’t form 5-10 destroyers? Bombers are so easily countered. Especially when lead by trash FCs. ---
**Author:** ![Raw\_Matters](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/raw_matters/32/462866_2.png) [@Raw\_Matters](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Raw_Matters)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-bombers-bar/65523/24 "2018-03-27T20:38:33Z")
> [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](#): > > You’re seriously telling us that you couldn’t form 5-10 destroyers? Bombers are so easily countered. Especially when lead by trash FCs. 60 Bombers and Interceptors and T3 cruisers and Falcons and many other ships. Actually one guy tried to warp in with an interceptor to rescue the Excavators, he died a second after he came out of warp. ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-bombers-bar/65523/25 "2018-03-27T20:58:57Z")
> [@Raw\_Matters](#): > > You all seem to be under the impression that the average corp size of ppl in 0.0 is somewhere around 1000. Breaking news: the majority of corps can’t have a backup of 100 dreads simply because they don’t have enough chars to even fly that many ships. Breaking news, Eve isn’t fair. You aren’t expected to always have a way to win. If you want to have that way to win, join a bigger group. Otherwise, go back into your corner with the other kids that don’t want to be in a bigger group. Whining that a group can bring a force in that you can’t counter is moot. Eve isn’t meant to be fair. They won that fight by being a bigger better group. ---
**Author:** ![DrysonBennington](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drysonbennington/32/501369_2.png) [@DrysonBennington](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DrysonBennington)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 2:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-bombers-bar/65523/26 "2018-03-28T14:46:05Z")
If you are having problems with Stealth Bombers simply place Smart Bombing battleships around the area where you are at and let the Smart Bomb do the talking. The Rohk is the best battle ship to use. ---
**Author:** ![DrysonBennington](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drysonbennington/32/501369_2.png) [@DrysonBennington](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DrysonBennington)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 2:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-bombers-bar/65523/27 "2018-03-28T14:46:42Z")
Why don’t you provide something constructive instead of whining yourself? ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-bombers-bar/65523/28 "2018-03-28T17:30:28Z")
> [@DrysonBennington](#): > > Why don’t you provide something constructive instead of whining yourself? I did provide something constructive. See below quoted text: > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > If you want to have that way to win, join a bigger group I quite constructively suggested that the way to counter a group of players is with a group of players. If your group is insufficient, get a bigger group. If you don’t want a bigger group, then you don’t want a counter. Quite simple. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 7:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-bombers-bar/65523/29 "2018-03-28T19:27:18Z")
> [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > I quite constructively suggested that the way to counter a group of players is with a group of players. Your talk about EVE not being fair is utter nonsense. Maybe you’re just being bitter or deliberately disrespectful. Only you can say why you think EVE wouldn’t have fairness, but each time ships are being balanced by CCP is it being done out of fairness. Whenever changes are being made and new things are being introduced is it being done to provide fairness to all. Your own suggestion, although primitive, is based on the principal of fairness. There is a mountain of fairness in this game all the way down to the math behind the mechanics. Your suggestion wasn’t constructive, but it was rude, telling people to go back into the corner and calling them kids. Maybe you’re good at other things, but you are clueless about fairness. ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-bombers-bar/65523/30 "2018-03-28T19:30:51Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > Your talk about EVE not being fair is utter nonsense. - Cloaky camping - Hotdrops - HS Ganking - Blobbing - Event item stealing / Mission item stealing - Jita Scams That’s just what came to mind in a period of a minute. None of these are “fair”. Yet all of them are encouraged. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-bombers-bar/65523/31 "2018-03-28T19:34:18Z")
> [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > That’s just what came to mind in a period of a minute. None of these are “fair”. Yet all of them are encouraged. And here is where it bites you… You yourself said it to find the right group of people to counter your problem. So go and do that. ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-bombers-bar/65523/32 "2018-03-28T19:36:37Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > And here is where it bites you… You yourself said it to find the right group of people to counter your problem. So go and do that. Since when is something that is unfair be immune to counter? How is a hot-drop fair? It’s not. But a counter-drop will certainly even the odds. Heck, you can even blob them with a counter-drop and make it unfair in your favour. The fairness of the principal is unchanged. The simple fact of the matter is that you can end up in an engagement which you have zero chance of winning. That is the most base example of unfair that you can possible have. All of those situations can be avoided. But if you land in one, you’re screwed unless you’ve a way to tilt it back in your favour. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 7:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-bombers-bar/65523/33 "2018-03-28T19:41:03Z")
> [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > How is a hot-drop fair? Here is your own answer: > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > I quite constructively suggested that the way to counter a group of players is with a group of players. ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 7:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-bombers-bar/65523/34 "2018-03-28T19:41:41Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > Here is your own answer: Ah, okay, we’re going to play that game are we? Here is the retort: > [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > Since when is something that is unfair be immune to counter? ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 7:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-bombers-bar/65523/35 "2018-03-28T19:42:47Z")
> [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > Since when is something that is unfair be immune to counter? Because anyone can do it, that’s how it’s fair. ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-bombers-bar/65523/36 "2018-03-28T19:45:14Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > Because anyone can do it, that’s how it’s fair. No, because the ability to sway an engagement does not actually sway the engagement. The rattlesnake that gets blopped by 30 bombers, for example, is SOL unless he can get reinforcements. If those reinforcements are not present, it remains an unfair fight. If said rattlesnake gets reinforcements, the unfair fight is made fair. But that’s only IF. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 7:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-bombers-bar/65523/37 "2018-03-28T19:46:24Z")
> [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > No, … Yes, it is. You only dislike it. It doesn’t make it unfair. ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 7:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-bombers-bar/65523/38 "2018-03-28T19:50:01Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > Yes, it is. You only dislike it. It doesn’t make it unfair. No, it isn’t. For the record I’m one of the dudes in the bombers. I’ve never lost a ratting ship to hunters, not ever. Like or dislike, however, has nothing to do with the underlying fairness of a principal. 30 bombers vs 1 rattlesnake, the rattle has zero chance of winning. If he’s lucky he might get a bomber or two, odds are the bomber will just warp off if it’s actually at risk because the ratting rattler had no point fitted. They won’t have any issues popping drones, and cruise/torp don’t apply worth ■■■■ to bombers. it is an unfair engagement because the rattler has no way to win. A purely fair engagement, the rattler would have a 50/50 chance to win. The rattler can certainly alter the engagement, but as it stands, the engagement he was presented with was unfair. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-bombers-bar/65523/39 "2018-03-28T19:52:31Z")
> [@Old\_Pervert](#): > > No, it isn’t. For the record I’m one of the dudes in the bombers … It doesn’t matter who you are. When you come to a fight in a weak ship and face a superior force then you have a fair chance to get away. If you stay and lose the it doesn’t make it unfair. ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-bombers-bar/65523/40 "2018-03-28T19:55:37Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > When you come to a fight in a weak ship and face a superior force then you have a fair chance to get away. If you stay and lose the it doesn’t make it unfair. The rattler did not invite or initiate the fight though, did he? He had it forced on him. You can say “well it’s fair because they can warp off”. Preventing an unfair engagement does not make the engagement fair. The simple fact is that the engagement remains unfair. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-bombers-bar/65523.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-bombers-bar/65523.md?page=3)