# Let's talk about what no one touches. PLEX'ing Subs **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 13, 2022, 3:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-what-no-one-touches-plexing-subs/353528 "2022-03-13T15:58:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Codename\_Razorback](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/codename_razorback/32/486427_2.png) [@Codename\_Razorback](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Codename_Razorback)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2022, 11:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-what-no-one-touches-plexing-subs/353528/21 "2022-03-20T23:02:21Z")
No worries. The only thing I can think of, that’s worth buying directly from CCP is SP’s. \*I still think 500k injectors should yield 500k SP’s. * * * ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 8:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-what-no-one-touches-plexing-subs/353528/22 "2022-03-21T08:04:31Z")
> [@Codename\_Razorback](#): > > \*I still think 500k injectors should yield 500k SP’s. They do, for new characters. They’re pretty good for new players to catch up, except they are really expensive for newbies. Now imagine the price of injectors if veteran players too got 500k SP out of them instead of 150k. They could easily double or even triple in price, and the cost of plexing your account would go up with it to match the new income of SP farms. Injector diminishing returns are good as they are. ---
**Author:** ![Zaza\_Davaham](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaza_davaham/32/395808_2.png) [@Zaza\_Davaham](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaza_Davaham)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 8:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-what-no-one-touches-plexing-subs/353528/23 "2022-03-21T08:48:24Z")
You are forgetting something… A sub is 15€ 500PLEX are 20€ Plex don’t magically exist, someone buys them with real money to sell them for ISK. And then he buys something for it, Skill injectors for example, or a retriever… Or something cooler that he wants… ---
**Author:** ![Khlaa\_Sor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/khlaa_sor/32/434528_2.png) [@Khlaa\_Sor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Khlaa_Sor)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 9:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-what-no-one-touches-plexing-subs/353528/24 "2022-03-21T09:09:35Z")
> [@Zaza\_Davaham](#): > > Or something cooler that he wants… Like hi-end faction ammo and the most efficient vehicle of its swift delivery ---
**Author:** ![Jumpdrive](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jumpdrive/32/285032_2.png) [@Jumpdrive](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jumpdrive)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 10:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-what-no-one-touches-plexing-subs/353528/25 "2022-03-21T10:51:30Z")
> [@Kinete\_Jenius](#): > > People just seem to say “well one account can earn this so 200 accounts CAN EARN WAY TOO MUCH!!!” without ever stopping to think about the time/effort required to set those accounts up and to manage them. That entirely depends on if you factor in tedium into the meaning of “effort”. I think that maintaining 14 accounts is already crazy high, but IF it were LESS time-efficient than a lower number of accounts, you and many others, probably wouldn’t do it at all. Eventually you’ll run out of all free time in a day, no matter how efficient scaling up is, but I expect BEFORE that happens, most players with time to burn, simply burn out themselves, because such a setup promotes tedium and not fun. A player who likes hard games, may still draw the line at a certain level of tedium and busy work. I think as players we should have higher expectations from a game. I cannot help but wonder how the hell we even got to the point, where this level of double digit multi-boxing became a somewhat common thing in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Kinete\_Jenius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kinete_jenius/32/274671_2.png) [@Kinete\_Jenius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kinete_Jenius)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 12:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-what-no-one-touches-plexing-subs/353528/26 "2022-03-21T12:56:06Z")
> [@Jumpdrive](#): > > That entirely depends on if you factor in tedium into the meaning of “effort”. Tedium is when the effort and time required reaches a certain threshold. I reached that point quickly at 14 accounts and scaled back to 12 as a result. Even with 12 I got to the point where I couldn’t bother to actually manually fly to new areas. I’d just throw on an EHP fit, leave the semi shinies in the cargohold and AP to my next destination (or I’d use an AP frigate). If I was moving shiny ships through highsec I’d use one account to scout ahead and AP the rest in travel fits. I ended up quitting because I decided the time I was investing wasn’t worth it considering the direction CCP was going in. Personally I’ve been dual boxing since the BBS days. Even now I dual box WoW classic, ffixiv and heroes of the storm without tools. It’s just a play style I find fun and became addicted to in lineage 2 / eve. ---
**Author:** ![Jumpdrive](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jumpdrive/32/285032_2.png) [@Jumpdrive](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jumpdrive)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 1:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-what-no-one-touches-plexing-subs/353528/27 "2022-03-21T13:06:23Z")
For me it only becomes tedium when it’s these three things: easy, boring and repetitive. As long as an activity is fun, it may consume a lot of time; you’d just continue another day when free time runs out. A well designed game play loop may even be repetitive up to a point. Too easy is the real danger, when you end up just doing busy work over and over. ---
**Author:** ![Jinsura](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jinsura/32/280156_2.png) [@Jinsura](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jinsura)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 1:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-what-no-one-touches-plexing-subs/353528/28 "2022-03-21T13:18:36Z")
PLEX was a solution to RMT. CCP gave some player a legal way to buy isk. In my opinion it’s better that the cash goes to CCP then to a RMT Bot farmer. ---
**Author:** ![Jumpdrive](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jumpdrive/32/285032_2.png) [@Jumpdrive](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jumpdrive)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 1:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-what-no-one-touches-plexing-subs/353528/29 "2022-03-21T13:29:49Z")
A necessary evil yes. Probably unavoidable. I do wonder if the same applies to skill extractors/injectors though. Far too late for changing it now, but selling skill points directly AND allowing skill injector-trade on top of that, may have been worse than just allowing skill injectors alone and that may still be worse than exclusively selling SPs in the store. ---
**Author:** ![Codename\_Razorback](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/codename_razorback/32/486427_2.png) [@Codename\_Razorback](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Codename_Razorback)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 2:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-what-no-one-touches-plexing-subs/353528/30 "2022-03-21T14:17:37Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > They’re pretty good for new players to catch up… Do you see the problem there? I’ve been playing for 18 years, 10 months, and 12 days. Do you think it’s “fair” that a new player can “catch up” to me that easily? I don’t. * * * ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 2:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-what-no-one-touches-plexing-subs/353528/31 "2022-03-21T14:19:47Z")
> [@Kinete\_Jenius](#): > > I ended up quitting because I decided the time I was investing wasn’t worth it considering the direction CCP was going in. Ain’t that the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Jumpdrive](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jumpdrive/32/285032_2.png) [@Jumpdrive](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jumpdrive)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 2:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-what-no-one-touches-plexing-subs/353528/32 "2022-03-21T14:37:24Z")
> [@Codename\_Razorback](#): > > Do you see the problem there? I’ve been playing for 18 years, 10 months, and 12 days. > > Do you think it’s “fair” that a new player can “catch up” to me that easily? > > I don’t. Arguably, most old veterans, possibly even including you, did effectively the same thing as that newbie whale, but at a lower price point. You’d only have to be “subscribed” on Omega for a long amount of time, to get to a high amount of skill points. You absolutely did NOT need to PLAY the game to gain those character skills. It’s automatic as long as you didn’t forget to maintain the skill queue. You also could play and probably did, but the two are functionally independent. Effectively, you simply bought the SPs from CCP, possibly even at the lowest possible price, for all the skills you could have gained before skill injector trade became a thing… and probably even after that update. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 2:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-what-no-one-touches-plexing-subs/353528/33 "2022-03-21T14:39:48Z")
@Codename_Razorback Luckily ‘catching up’ is only efficient until injector diminishing returns kick in. Those same diminishing returns that you were complaining about earlier mean that while a newbie can catch up to a certain point, they cannot get all the SP that you have after 18 years of playing without paying significantly more than you did. You were arguing to remove injector diminishing returns earlier: > [@Codename\_Razorback](#): > > \*I still think 500k injectors should yield 500k SP’s. … yet here you are arguing against the capability for new players to use injectors to catch up with your 18 years of SP: > [@Codename\_Razorback](#): > > Do you think it’s “fair” that a new player can “catch up” to me that easily? So what is it? Should new players be allowed to endlessly inject without diminishing returns or shouldn’t they? Or should they not be allowed to catch up, but you want to be able to use 500k injectors yourself? Am I missing something or are you being hypocritical? ---
**Author:** ![Codename\_Razorback](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/codename_razorback/32/486427_2.png) [@Codename\_Razorback](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Codename_Razorback)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 2:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-what-no-one-touches-plexing-subs/353528/34 "2022-03-21T14:57:52Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > are you being hypocritical? It’s not being hypocritical. I don’t mind CCP selling Skill Injectors/Extractors and even SP’s directly from The Store. I’ve only “argued” about the diminishing returns. You seem to be easily confused. Old players _may_ have more ISK/Assets, but to assume that I can _afford_ to buy PLEX anymore than a new player is asinine. Just imagine if Elon Musk started playing Eve today. * * * > [@Jumpdrive](#): > > possibly even at the lowest possible price 226 X $14.99 = **$3,387.74** Do you really think so? * * * 🅲🅰🅻🅼 🅳🅾🆆🅽 🅶🅰🅽🅺🅴🆁!!! ---
**Author:** ![Jumpdrive](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jumpdrive/32/285032_2.png) [@Jumpdrive](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jumpdrive)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 3:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-what-no-one-touches-plexing-subs/353528/35 "2022-03-21T15:01:54Z")
> [@Codename\_Razorback](#): > > > [@Jumpdrive](#): > > > > possibly even at the lowest possible price > > 226 X $14.99 = **$3,387.74** > > Do you really think so? It’s only going to cost even MORE, if you do the newbie alternative: buy enough PLEX, convert to ISK and then do the skill injectors. Omega is by far the cheapest monetized option. Only it looks like you didn’t make use of the yearly payment option for an extra discount, but it’s cheaper still, even without that discount. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 3:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-what-no-one-touches-plexing-subs/353528/36 "2022-03-21T15:11:07Z")
> [@Codename\_Razorback](#): > > It’s not being hypocritical. I don’t mind CCP selling Skill Injectors/Extractors and even SP’s directly from The Store. I’ve only “argued” about the diminishing returns. Yet you don’t like it that new players can catch up. You’re a hypocrite. ---
**Author:** ![Codename\_Razorback](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/codename_razorback/32/486427_2.png) [@Codename\_Razorback](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Codename_Razorback)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 3:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-what-no-one-touches-plexing-subs/353528/37 "2022-03-21T15:13:41Z")
> [@Jumpdrive](#): > > didn’t make use of the yearly payment option I have a couple of times, but my wife used to HATE Eve! Thanks for reminding me about that discount. I’ve just become accustomed to that coming out of my checking account every month. * * * Kind of like Netflix… ---
**Author:** ![Codename\_Razorback](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/codename_razorback/32/486427_2.png) [@Codename\_Razorback](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Codename_Razorback)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 3:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-what-no-one-touches-plexing-subs/353528/38 "2022-03-21T15:17:01Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > You’re a hypocrite. You’re an idiot. IF they took away the diminishing returns, and we bought injectors at the same rate, a new player wouldn’t catch up with me. Are you really that daft? * * * ---
**Author:** ![Jumpdrive](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jumpdrive/32/285032_2.png) [@Jumpdrive](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jumpdrive)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 3:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-what-no-one-touches-plexing-subs/353528/39 "2022-03-21T15:24:05Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Yet you don’t like it that new players can catch up. > > You’re a hypocrite. No, I don’t think he’s a hypocrite. I think he’s pointing us to something else. There’s just something extremely screwy about the EVE monetization scheme ever since this game got alpha accounts. It goes even beyond total amount of cash you can spend on one single game, as a player. What initially looked like a very sympathetic idea: progressing a player character even when you as a player could temporarily not play due to sudden IRL issues, became something else entirely, with one innocuous change (F2P) that didn’t affect other MMOs nearly as badly, as it does EVE. It turned the entire thing on it’s head. Combine skill extractors and I almost get pyramid scheme vibes, when I think of the big picture. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2022, 3:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-what-no-one-touches-plexing-subs/353528/40 "2022-03-21T15:24:17Z")
At the moment a new player gets more than three times more out of an SP injector than you. You wish to get the same amount of SP that they do, while also arguing against catching up. You’re not only a hypocrite, but also > [@Codename\_Razorback](#): > > an idiot. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-what-no-one-touches-plexing-subs/353528.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lets-talk-about-what-no-one-touches-plexing-subs/353528.md?page=3)