# LETTER TO CCP Volume 2 **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 17, 2021, 1:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064 "2021-12-17T13:11:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 5:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/41 "2021-12-17T17:48:59Z")
IF they wanted to fleece us for all we have, as you said, then the LAST thing they’d want to do is upset a large portion of the players to the point where they mass unsub their alts. Instead they would make everything easy, everything safe, you’d be able to buy AT ships from the Store (lol) and they’d create some sort of personal abyssal space that only you and your friends can enter, filled with ores and no nasty npc or timers. That is the hallmark of companies that have given up on their games: everything easy, sell it all, nobody cares any more. But they didn’t do that did they. They intentionally pissed off pretty much everyone **for two whole fcking years!** because they decided it was needed for the long term health of the game. That is not in line with what you’re saying. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 5:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/42 "2021-12-17T17:55:53Z")
“The proof will be in the pudding, as they say.” I’m not going to call the person out; this is a common mistake. I’m hoping that the following correct version of the saying will make its way through the English-speaking world and, in sixty or so years, become at least as ubiquitous as the perversion. ‘The proof of the pudding is in the eating.’ Which, I think you’ll agree, makes much more sense. ---
**Author:** ![una\_noche\_mas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/una_noche_mas/32/296902_2.png) [@una\_noche\_mas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/una_noche_mas)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/43 "2021-12-17T18:00:37Z")
> [@Algathas](#): > > First off because Eve is a game, a player can just quit with no consequences. They quit Eve and they still go about their daily life. > > But even if you take away that aspect, Eve doesn’t even have survival mechanics. There are games where if you don’t eat you starve and die. There are games where if you don’t protect yourself from the elements you die. There are games where your items have wear and tear from use. There are games where if you die you start out completely from scratch. There are games with much harder to procure resources or they are finite. There are games where you can be killed even when logged out. > > Eve has relatively little survival aspect so there are no psychological effects from Eve that relate to survival. While Eve does have an economy, the effects of “survival psychology” on the economy are very little. The economy is based on destruction from boredom rather than fighting for survival. there are some remarkable sentences. there like 🙂 > [@Algathas](#): > > The economy is based on destruction from boredom rather than fighting for survival. that one for example. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 6:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/44 "2021-12-17T18:04:22Z")
> [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > IF they wanted to fleece us for all we have, as you said, then the LAST thing they’d want to do is upset a large portion of the players to the point where they mass unsub their alts. I believe --for the case-- anger was a foreseen byproduct of the action. I would love it to be as you describe but think of it for a sec: Perhaps zero f_c_s were given to the player base reaction and those who moved were also foreseen casualties already accounted for. For this particular issue, please give it the benefit of doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 6:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/45 "2021-12-17T18:46:18Z")
Oooh touche good answer ---
**Author:** ![Emira\_Sultana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emira_sultana/32/298445_2.png) [@Emira\_Sultana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emira_Sultana)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 6:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/46 "2021-12-17T18:52:20Z")
“Letter to CCP” 🤣 They won’t even address a bug in the forum or answer bug-report thread and you think they’re going to waste their time with your ‘letter’ 😅 Dreaming ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 7:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/47 "2021-12-17T19:11:36Z")
> [@Xucca](#): > > Perhaps zero f_c_s were given to the player base reaction and those who moved were also foreseen casualties already accounted for. Well yes, of course. You don’t make a 2 year plan causing a total drought and not expect, and thus account for, people giving up on it. Again, short term bad, long term good. Richard Bartle once made a really good piece on the problems of MUDs (or MMO these days), with short and log term problems and solutions. > point 3: When MMOs change (as they must), players only ever > judge the merits of the change based on its short-term > effects. A long-term benefit will not impress them if > there’s a short-term loss. > This means developers can’t add > something that’s long-term good but short-term bad, nor > remove something short-term good but long-term bad. > point 4: Short-term good, long-term bad design choices > cause players to leave. > point 4 says that players leave any MMO built on the results of their own > short-term views. point 3 means they won’t recognize that what caused them > to leave was indeed the cause. Or to put it in normal English: if you let players decide what to do or change, they will always choose short term changes and they will hate the long term results of their choices. Making them quit. ---
**Author:** ![Syeed\_Ameer\_Ali](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syeed_ameer_ali/32/411549_2.png) [@Syeed\_Ameer\_Ali](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syeed_Ameer_Ali)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/48 "2021-12-17T19:33:03Z")
I didn’t read your whole post because, forgive me if I’m wrong, it just seems like the same nullbear whinging we’ve been enduring for weeks now, just with bigger words. I do agree that there was an undesirable psychological impact to “scarcity”. In hindsight, maybe CCP should never have used that term. They probably should have called it something like “slightly less abundance”. That would have been more accurate - it never got to a point where it was difficult to make isk at all, or prices on anything became prohibitively high. Nevertheless, it’s obvious that a segment of the player base _feels_ as if they have been deprived. I chalk this up purely to the psychological impact of being told that there was scarcity. ---
**Author:** ![una\_noche\_mas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/una_noche_mas/32/296902_2.png) [@una\_noche\_mas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/una_noche_mas)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 7:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/49 "2021-12-17T19:38:38Z")
> [@Aisha\_Katalen](#): > > Well yes, of course. You don’t make a 2 year plan causing a total drought and not expect, and thus account for, people giving up on it. Again, short term bad, long term good. > > Richard Bartle once made a really good piece on the problems of MUDs (or MMO these days), with short and log term problems and solutions. > > > point 3: When MMOs change (as they must), players only ever > > judge the merits of the change based on its short-term > > effects. A long-term benefit will not impress them if > > there’s a short-term loss. > > > This means developers can’t add > > something that’s long-term good but short-term bad, nor > > remove something short-term good but long-term bad. > > > point 4: Short-term good, long-term bad design choices > > cause players to leave. > > > point 4 says that players leave any MMO built on the results of their own > > short-term views. point 3 means they won’t recognize that what caused them > > to leave was indeed the cause. > > Or to put it in normal English: if you let players decide what to do or change, they will always choose short term changes and they will hate the long term results of their choices. Making them quit. This subject first was under volume 2 first i added then removed… because it gets even more complicated to present under one post and become too long. I just divided and call volume 3. Else it would be a hard and long read I wanted to keep it simple. I will send that in the future too. ---
**Author:** ![una\_noche\_mas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/una_noche_mas/32/296902_2.png) [@una\_noche\_mas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/una_noche_mas)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 7:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/50 "2021-12-17T19:40:14Z")
> [@Emira\_Sultana](#): > > “Letter to CCP” 🤣 They won’t even address a bug in the forum or answer bug-report thread and you think they’re going to waste their time with your ‘letter’ 😅 > Dreaming 🤗 it is pretty optimistic 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 8:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/51 "2021-12-17T20:08:17Z")
There are many kinds of scarcity. Some of them are easily identified within the isolated environment of the EVE sub-forums, as follows. Patience Maturity Reason Altruism Effort… I grow rather weary of people threatening to un-sub, or indeed needlessly informing us/CCP that they have already done so; don’t you, beloved capsuleers? The infant bumps its knee and hollers loud and long (Naughty table-leg!) - until Mummy administers the band-aid of a gentle kiss and soothing words. No actual harm has befallen you. If your response to disappointment is to holler loud and long, know that ‘Mummy’ may simply ignore you, for you have left dummies and diapers far behind. ---
**Author:** ![una\_noche\_mas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/una_noche_mas/32/296902_2.png) [@una\_noche\_mas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/una_noche_mas)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 9:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/52 "2021-12-17T21:10:40Z")
your post is bit off topic . but since you are crying here this mommy will answer you. here is my answer to you : No actual harm has befallen you. If your response to disappointment is to holler loud and long, know that ‘Mummy’ may simply ignore you, for you have left dummies and diapers far behind. but i heard you… yes and here is your band aid kiss 💏 ---
**Author:** ![Xuxe\_Xu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuxe_xu/32/464660_2.png) [@Xuxe\_Xu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuxe_Xu)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 9:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/53 "2021-12-17T21:19:57Z")
> [@una\_noche\_mas](#): > > ‘To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail’ ( **Abraham Maslow** ) True, of course…but Blue…is it possible that your hammer might be applying practical psychology that is highly important IRL to a video game world that is not all that important? If ccp drives EvE into the ground tomorrow, should that be of great importance to any of us? Is it psychologically healthy to be so emotionally invested in a game world? I like EvE a lot, but despite what ccp said, it aint real. ‘Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar’ (some weird Austrian dude) ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 9:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/54 "2021-12-17T21:24:31Z")
> [@una\_noche\_mas](#): > > Here is the difference someone knows both sides and I know the myriad of techniques from neanderthal primitive lvl to the more advanced modern and updated effective methods in behavioural economics, social psychology. > You know what did they implemented. And you believe that was necessary … But in positive science … it was not necessary. was not effective. and was not positive. I doubt that very much. You posted triggering things on purpose and are barely aware of the most basic pysch stuff beyond buzz words. Lets not front mmkay. You literally don’t have the emotional maturity to not get banned or throw tantrums on the fourms. Forgive if I don’t buy your _opinion_ of EVE Online 😃 > [@una\_noche\_mas](#): > > I can give hundreds of research and analytics that proofs scientifically Scarcity has no good for the purpose CCP intended as a result. Not really. Correlation isn’t causation and you haven’t even proved they correlate. They merely correlate in your opinion. How are you proving it scientifically? You don’t even have the full data set because CCP wouldn’t give an internet rando those numbers ROFL. > [@una\_noche\_mas](#): > > I am not an enemy. I love this game I love this community. and I want this company to thrive better in future. > > And I do my best to break down some totally groundless sentences you all humming and mumbling unconsciously, endlessly and make people believe. They aren’t groundless tho. They are opinions, like yours. Mindlessly posting links doesn’t proof correlation nor causation. In reality you need much stronger data points, which you can’t get. > [@Algathas](#): > > Holy wall of text Batman! In any case your premise is way off base and you can’t compare the psychological / cognitive effects of real life scarcity to the game. Preach. > [@God\_Emperor\_Kane](#): > > Bypassing the ban again are we Blue? of course she is haha > [@Etch\_Masuka](#): > > The thing i always look for when someone posts data and makes claims is how they react when people suggest that the data could be looked at differently. And usually people who outright dismiss those observations in an insulting way are the people that have their pre-conceptions coloured and are seeing what they want to see. (thats you by the way 🙂 ) Preach it brother. Someone else here has clearly taken a research method class 😃 ---
**Author:** ![una\_noche\_mas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/una_noche_mas/32/296902_2.png) [@una\_noche\_mas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/una_noche_mas)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 9:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/55 "2021-12-17T21:32:44Z")
> [@Xuxe\_Xu](#): > > True, of course…but Blue…is it possible that your hammer might be applying practical psychology that is highly important IRL to a video game world that is not all that important? I don’t imply anything myself @Xuxe_Xu CCP self taking pride in the value of their games in precisely the parameter I have mentioned in my OP. And they do present this on many different platforms. As Well as CCP database has been used by these researches. Please read the article carefully. [https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-REB-10618](https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-REB-10618) I do respect your doubts. I don’t accept and claim anything else than CCP taking pride in. Issue is. Universities taking these data and building strategies.. my Question is.. what CCP learn from these strategies else than having the raw result of research thesis ext etc. I don’t write anything else than what researchers concluded. and please read my prior post too if you have time. You can clearly read there how “status quo bias” work on eve online. First CCP, then hundreds of researchers make applications to CCP to access data emphasizing this fact. this is not my personal opinion. Please read the OP careful. And only criticise me on the points I reflect my personal opinions. this is just a game. No need to be loyal to the king more than the king. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 9:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/56 "2021-12-17T21:40:58Z")
> [@una\_noche\_mas](#): > > I do respect your doubts. > > I don’t accept and claim anything else than CCP taking pride in. > Issue is. Universities taking these data and building strategies… my Question is… what CCP learn from these strategies else than having the raw result of research thesis ext etc. > I don’t write anything else than what researchers concluded. and please read my prior post too if you have time. You can clearly read there how “status quo bias” work on eve online. > > Please read the OP careful. And only criticise me on the points I reflect my personal opinions. > this is just a game. No need to be loyal to the king more than the king. Except as other people have pointed out, this is a vidya game. You can’t correlate real life scarcity, which has larger implications, with “scarcity” in a vidya game, which isn’t even really scarcity. Bro, you keep missing. You seriously should seek some sort of help since you can’t differentiate between a vidya game and reality. Honestly, as I come to see your posts more, I totally understand now what went down with RvB. ---
**Author:** ![una\_noche\_mas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/una_noche_mas/32/296902_2.png) [@una\_noche\_mas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/una_noche_mas)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 9:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/57 "2021-12-17T21:48:16Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Except as other people have pointed out, this is a vidya game. You can’t correlate real life scarcity, which has larger implications, with “scarcity” in a vidya game, which isn’t even really scarcity. Please send your message there: [https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-REB-10618](https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-REB-10618) TO CCP, not me. since this article was published .. the amount of data and research around it far more than doubled up. Also do not expect any further answer from me as long as you don’t write and act descent. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 9:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/58 "2021-12-17T21:56:02Z")
> [@una\_noche\_mas](#): > > your post is bit off topic It may be; I sometimes do that. Breaking rules can be useful. As for my complaining; I do that, too. My complaints, however, are usually couched in language which is terse and direct, highly organised and unemotional The difference is that I have understood the true origin of your ‘letter’, and it is my hope that I have demonstrated that truth in action. If I have failed; no matter, Una Noche Mas. I have more than una noche mas to get it right… ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 9:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/59 "2021-12-17T21:57:58Z")
> [@una\_noche\_mas](#): > > Please send your message there: > [@una\_noche\_mas](#): > > not me. Wut? Why would I send it there? Also that article is from 2010. Which tells me you don’t even know the standards for lit reviews ROFL. You’re embarrassing yourself yet again. Instead you dodge my post cause it shreds your narrative 😃 ---
**Author:** ![una\_noche\_mas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/una_noche_mas/32/296902_2.png) [@una\_noche\_mas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/una_noche_mas)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 10:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/60 "2021-12-17T22:23:18Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > The difference is that I have understood the true origin of your ‘letter’, and it is my hope that I have demonstrated that truth in action. I am really glad that you understand the main idea and motivation of my first and second letters. Behavioural economics gaining more and more weight in business are and some of the frontier corporations have already begun to take advantage of it. Insttead of crying and just complaining… I do my best to introduce this to both the player base and to CCP because this can help them to make all these long term changes with minimal drawbacks. Current situation and player bases reactions of course saddening… and as you mention you are getting weary too… I think I’m more customised to read and take this kind of reaction so I don’t have an issue with it… I have enough hugs and band-aid kisses for everyone. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064.md?page=4)