# LETTER TO CCP Volume 2 **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 17, 2021, 1:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064 "2021-12-17T13:11:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 10:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/61 "2021-12-17T22:25:13Z")
> [@una\_noche\_mas](#): > > I am really glad that you understand the main idea and motivation of my first and second letters. Behavioural economics gaining more and more weight in business are and some of the frontier corporations have already begun to take advantage of it. > Insttead of crying and just complaining… I do my best to introduce this to both the player base and to CCP because this can help them to make all these long term changes with minimal drawbacks. > > Current situation and player bases reactions of course saddening… and as you mention you are getting weary too… I think I’m more customised to read and take this kind of reaction so I don’t have an issue with it… I have enough hugs and band-aid kisses for everyone. You seem to have missed the words,_in your opinion_ again. You are posting as if this is fact. You have not proven so. I get you’re confused as to what fact is and opinion is. I’m glad I cleared it up for you 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Duella\_Cre\_Vil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/duella_cre_vil/32/297348_2.png) [@Duella\_Cre\_Vil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Duella_Cre_Vil)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 12:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/62 "2021-12-18T00:00:36Z")
Hey look they feel that way and it’s 2021. That’s data point enough right? Haha ---
**Author:** ![una\_noche\_mas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/una_noche_mas/32/296902_2.png) [@una\_noche\_mas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/una_noche_mas)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 12:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/63 "2021-12-18T00:07:57Z")
> **[On the connection between real-world circumstances and online player...](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0240196)** > > Games involving virtual worlds are popular in several segments of the population and societies. The online environment facilitates that players from different countries interact in a common virtual world. Virtual worlds involving social and economic... Published October 2021 Especially last 10 years researches around this area ramped up. It is a very popular research subject due to results simply can be used to develop solutions and strategies. And all results are indicating positive correlations. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 12:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/64 "2021-12-18T00:38:04Z")
“One possible explanation for this reduction in violence put forward in [[40](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0240196#pone.0240196.ref040)] is that playing violent video games works as a safety valve for inherent aggression and thus leads to a catharsis. In other words, when people play violent video games, they are able to release their aggression in the virtual world instead of in the real world. We further find that players from less peaceful countries tend to make and maintain more friends than enemies in the game relatively to those living in less violent countries. This result indicates that trust and confidence in the virtual world may act as a substitute for positive real-world social experiences. We have observed however a positive relation between in-game aggressiveness against non-player characters and real-world aggressiveness. In this case, players from more violent countries tend to act more violently against non-human characters than those living in peaceful countries.” Ah so they agree blapping others is good to reduce out of game violence 😃 So ganking in EVE is saving lives. Confirmed. Also note they said possible explanation. As in they can’t say for sure 😃 “While correlations do not necessarily imply causality, it is intuitive to expect in our study that due to the relative dimensions (i.e. population sizes of both worlds), the country-of-origin of players affect their in-game behaviour and not vice-versa, as in online vs. offline feedback dynamics in specific contexts [[41](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0240196#pone.0240196.ref041)]. Our statistical models could be further improved to better explain the variation of the real-world socioeconomic indicators, their temporal evolution, and the mechanisms driving the influence and inter-relations between players in-game.” In other words, “uh we found some stuff, which says some stuff, but we can’t really say for sure it is the stuff. Just that it built upon other stuff other people did. Please notice me senpai and give us more funding for our edgy angle on this boring theory.” LOL. You’re trying so hard and for what bro? How about clearly stating your objective instead of word vomiting? From what I see, you’re trying to make the claim that EVE’s scarcity is negatively impacting their player’s mental well being right? Couple of things chief: 1. EVE is a totally voluntary thing, if they feel bad they can stop playing (preferably after giving me their stuff) 2. As others have pointed out, this isn’t even real scarcity. It has no impact on in game or out of game survival 3. Its a vidya game bro. Say it out loud with me. It is a vidya game. Take a deep breath. Cause, as the younger generation says, ironically as we used it too, you tweaking. Honestly. You got problems mate. Seek help 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 12:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/65 "2021-12-18T00:38:55Z")
> [@una\_noche\_mas](#): > > **When human being begins to deal with scarcity, researches show that there is an enormous impact on peoples cognitive capacity.** The flaw in your thesis, is that you have failed to define “scarcity” as a quantifiable scientific concept. One might argue that mining infinite asteroids in an internet video game is the essence of “abundance”, and describing this as “scarcity” in a true real-world economic sense is an insult to people who experience real-world poverty. Any conclusions are fundamentally flawed, as the original thesis is erroneous. The truth is that players do not need titans and supercapital keepstars to enjoy EvE Online, and frankly there is good reason for CCP to reduce the ‘wealth’ of in game players. I think CCP has done a great job with scarcity measures, and I hope they go further. Analysis of real-world scarcities does not necessarily extrapolate to describe the impact of “scarcity” in a leisure activity. For example, baseball does not become a better game, simply because each player is given more baseballs. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 12:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/66 "2021-12-18T00:39:54Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > The flaw in your thesis, is that you have failed to define “scarcity” via a quantifiable scientific method. One might argue that mining infinite asteroids in an internet video game is the essence of “abundance”, and that describing this as “scarcity” in a true real-world economic sense is frankly an insult to people who experience real-world poverty. > > The truth is that players do not need titans and supercapital keepstars to enjoy EvE Online, and frankly there is good reason for CCP to reduce the ‘wealth’ of in game players. Well the other article she linked says that by you ganking in game, you are reducing out of game violence. You are literally saving the world, one gank at a time. ---
**Author:** ![una\_noche\_mas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/una_noche_mas/32/296902_2.png) [@una\_noche\_mas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/una_noche_mas)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 1:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/67 "2021-12-18T01:22:25Z")
For people who still think this data is my personal opinion there is a lot of research from universities based on data provided by the CCP Games that conclude the value of this data as parallel to real-life behavioural economic aspects. Description Scarcity: [SCARCITY | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/scarcity) > **[Scarcity Definition and Why It’s Important in Business | Indeed.com](https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/what-is-scarcity)** > > Learn what scarcity is in business and economics and why it's important, and get answers to FAQs about scarcity. Scarcity in the context of this OP approaches the subject as a strategy used by CCP in Eve online virtual economy ---
**Author:** ![una\_noche\_mas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/una_noche_mas/32/296902_2.png) [@una\_noche\_mas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/una_noche_mas)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 1:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/68 "2021-12-18T01:29:37Z")
> **[scarcity](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/scarcity)** > > 1. a situation in which something is not easy to find or get: 2. a situation… Also as well … Some other pilots mentioned again and again the fact game is volunteer not necesarry leidure activity . I have mentioned sunk cost fallacy … and how it works in my prior OP. Fact it is a game and fact it is fictional . But this parameter will not remove the ongoing effects of biases as long as player commited to play . When sunk cost fallacy barrier begin to push and breake …player quit. And depends on size and weight of it… player may come back again . Even in real life when you are talking about scarcity and mentioning life and death and suvival lvl parameters only carrying the term to extremes In business and behavioral economics context of scarcity is pretty largely studied. Limiting and connecting scarcity only to survival is irrelevant . In even simple business model difference between raw materials deman and some impedements on suplly ( but changing rules taxes international laws can create scarcity ) and this can be short or long term , cognitive biases and the mechanism i explained before like tunneling and other things still stays relevant . @Aiko_Danuja ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 1:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/69 "2021-12-18T01:39:48Z")
I think scarcity and plenty are red herrings. It assumes people solely value their ‘stuff’ in terms of ISK and decide risk aversion on that basis. I don’t believe people are that rational. I don’t believe people would be out there tomorrow smashing up all their existing Titans if their value suddenly fell to 1m ISK and every noob could buy one. Things have an individual perceived value to each person that rides above the raising or lowering of ‘plenty’. ---
**Author:** ![una\_noche\_mas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/una_noche_mas/32/296902_2.png) [@una\_noche\_mas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/una_noche_mas)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 1:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/70 "2021-12-18T01:47:06Z")
Exactly . That is also very well known bias . It called ENDOWMENT EFFECT > **[Endowment effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endowment_effect)** > > In psychology and behavioral economics, the endowment effect (also known as divestiture aversion and related to the mere ownership effect in social psychology) is the finding that people are more likely to retain an object they own than acquire that same object when they do not own it. The endowment theory can be defined as "an application of prospect theory positing that loss aversion associated with ownership explains observed exchange asymmetries." > This is typically illustrated in two ways. ... you can read here . And yes many biases if you look closer you can see it is not really rational… well there is a reason they called biases… Read that one… mug example you may find it interesting . ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 1:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/71 "2021-12-18T01:52:23Z")
> [@una\_noche\_mas](#): > > When sunk cost fallacy barrier begin to push and breake …player quit. And depends on size and weight of it… player may come back again . The problem with any ‘gambler’ type fallacy in Eve is that there is no ‘jackpot’ you’re going to win if you just put a bit more in the machine. There’s no big boss that you defeat and ‘win’. Sunk cost will always remain sunk cost…because you are never going to get to the point where you can put your feet up and say ’ I have won Eve '. Thus all you can ever really do is enjoy stuff being trashed. Or gain a huge pile of stuff that will never be big enough. ---
**Author:** ![una\_noche\_mas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/una_noche_mas/32/296902_2.png) [@una\_noche\_mas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/una_noche_mas)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 1:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/72 "2021-12-18T01:57:35Z")
And yes that also one of the factors which keep players on the hook. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 2:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/73 "2021-12-18T02:28:10Z")
Once again, you have not defined scarcity in any kind of quantifiable or mathematical sense. No conclusion or analysis you make will be in the least bit rational, until you first define “scarcity”. Other researchers have examined the impact of “scarcity”, and in so doing they define it in concrete specific terms. What is “scarcity” in the context of a video game like EvE Online? I would suggest that the current situation does not reflect “scarcity” at all, and can be better described as “excess”. As I stated previously, baseball does not become a better game, simply because each player is given more baseballs. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 5:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/74 "2021-12-18T05:48:34Z")
Scarcity is when I don’t have enough of what I want, which is all of it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 6:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/75 "2021-12-18T06:18:16Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > As I stated previously, baseball does not become a better game, simply because each player is given more baseballs. I beg to differ. Also. Give every player one of those 90mph ball launchers. Maybe wrap the bats in barbed wire. In short, raise the game above most boring thing ever. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 9:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/76 "2021-12-18T09:58:35Z")
> [@una\_noche\_mas](#): > > For people who still think this data is my personal opinion You still don’t understand. You are attempting to correlate data that, _in your opinion_ may be linked to EVE and scarcity. However, you cannot say it is correlated scientifically or in any way proven. You _can_ say it is in your opinion, but not present it as fact. Learn to EVE and research methods kthx. > [@una\_noche\_mas](#): > > When sunk cost fallacy barrier begin to push and breake …player quit. And depends on size and weight of it… player may come back again . In your opinion. > [@una\_noche\_mas](#): > > In even simple business model difference between raw materials deman and some impedements on suplly ( but changing rules taxes international laws can create scarcity ) and this can be short or long term , cognitive biases and the mechanism i explained before like tunneling and other things still stays relevant . > > @Aiko_Danuja In your opinion. > [@una\_noche\_mas](#): > > you can read here . And yes many biases if you look closer you can see it is not really rational… well there is a reason they called biases… In your opinion. Again, all of this is your opinion, you cannot in good faith say it is fact or that its backed by a scientific method. You are conducting a lit review to support a hypothesis, you aren’t conducting research. Yea, you def didn’t pay attention in research methods huh? Or you did, and are just cool with presenting arguments in bad faith 😃 ---
**Author:** ![una\_noche\_mas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/una_noche_mas/32/296902_2.png) [@una\_noche\_mas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/una_noche_mas)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 10:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/77 "2021-12-18T10:06:23Z")
Literally … i do use textbook descriptions .these are available on the sources i gave . And still you claim these are my opinions . Reason ? These mechanics work for eve online in its micro universe too… i bring examples of reserachs that compare these elements with real life to eve online in behavioral economics area. They all say its related Now … You say it is not… you say that is my opinion… who said that ? You? Your sources please? ---
**Author:** ![una\_noche\_mas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/una_noche_mas/32/296902_2.png) [@una\_noche\_mas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/una_noche_mas)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 10:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/78 "2021-12-18T10:07:17Z")
Please read what CCP present age of scarcity. Read it from CCP. If that is what you are looking for . Term requires hollistic approach understanding. Read the sources. And think about your current major struggle . ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 10:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/79 "2021-12-18T10:45:04Z")
> [@una\_noche\_mas](#): > > Literally … i do use textbook descriptions .these are available on the sources i gave . > And still you claim these are my opinions . Reason ? > These mechanics work for eve online in its micro universe too… i bring examples of reserachs that compare these elements with real life to eve online in behavioral economics area. They all say its related > Now … > You say it is not… you say that is my opinion… who said that ? > You? > Your sources please? Sigh. I get you’re ESL but I don’t think that’s the problem here. I think either A. you are arguing in complete bad faith or B. actually have no flying quafe what you’re talking about Yes, you are using terms and posting links. However this alone does not prove correlation. In your opinion these theories and articles correlate with your understanding of what scarcity and EVE mean. It doesn’t mean it actually does. The fact is, this is your opinion. You cannot scientifically prove your hypothesis is correct because you aren’t doing actual research. You’re doing a piss poor lit review. Furthermore, the data sets you’d need to even attempt an actual study, you can’t get as CCP wouldn’t release them to you. Please learn how to EVE and research methods kthx. > [@una\_noche\_mas](#): > > Term requires hollistic approach understanding. Read the sources. And think about your current major struggle . See, this makes me think you throw around jargon and buzz words and know not what they mean. ---
**Author:** ![una\_noche\_mas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/una_noche_mas/32/296902_2.png) [@una\_noche\_mas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/una_noche_mas)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 11:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064/80 "2021-12-18T11:54:22Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > See, this makes me think you throw around jargon and buzz words and know not what they mean. There is no bad faith here. And i do literally using the sources. Please read. What i see in the past CCP benefit from 2 different person who knows the area. I dont know who is their current staff specialised on that neither if they get new one after these people. I know and aware it is bit hard to grab for everyone who is not coming from that area .. i do my best to explain things by using simoly textbook explanations which makes it even more harder to get . I do see the problem and i see what CCP wants to do for the behalf and future of healty eco system. As i mentioned in OP . And I am agree on both . What i do challenge is metodology . The strategy they choose is primitive .. they might choose different tools might minimise the drawbacks to reach same goals. Which is very valuable for the future of eve online. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/letter-to-ccp-volume-2/342064.md?page=5)