# Lightyears aren't really Lightyears - Just how big is New Eden? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 23, 2020, 4:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lightyears-arent-really-lightyears-just-how-big-is-new-eden/281299 "2020-11-23T04:25:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 5:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lightyears-arent-really-lightyears-just-how-big-is-new-eden/281299/21 "2020-11-23T17:44:11Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Your conclusion that lightyears in EVE are not actually lightyears depends on your observation of planetary orbits that are represented by circles in-game. No, actually they are based on dissimilar distances in the New Eden Map versus the jump drive declared distance in light years. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Have you considered another explanation: that planetary orbits shown in-game may not actually be representing the real orbit of the planets? While it is a possibility it’s also a less interesting explanation. Currently the idea that years in New Eden aren’t the same as Terran years simply explains away the whole problem almost rather conveniently, since the New Eden map is not meant to be to scale, any distance discrepancy there is not to be trusted. Until actual distances between Piekura, Mara and Dantumi are found…we can’t verify that the Jump Drive light years is itself a discrepancy. But one thing is for certain, jump drive light years does not equal an actual Terran-defined light year…many sources of evidence proves this. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 5:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lightyears-arent-really-lightyears-just-how-big-is-new-eden/281299/22 "2020-11-23T17:47:20Z")
> [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > jump drive light years Do you mean stargate light years? Edit: oh, you mean actual jump drives. Ok. If you say so. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 5:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lightyears-arent-really-lightyears-just-how-big-is-new-eden/281299/23 "2020-11-23T17:51:02Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > Do you mean stargate light years? No I haven’t considered those if there’s a mention of them, I was basing this off the listed lightyears from the routes provided above. There’s a number of reasons the lightyears as listed don’t add-up. We can work with them to see if the observed New Eden Skies adds up to at least consistent distances…start from there ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 5:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lightyears-arent-really-lightyears-just-how-big-is-new-eden/281299/24 "2020-11-23T17:52:19Z")
> [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > Maybe 0.838 years in New Eden is 10 Earth years? That is an interesting theory. Except I think that the current EVE year is YC120 (correct me if I’m wrong, I’m not that well known with EVE RP timelines and such) and every Earth year we get another EVE year. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 5:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lightyears-arent-really-lightyears-just-how-big-is-new-eden/281299/25 "2020-11-23T17:57:20Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > That is an interesting theory. Except I think that the current EVE year is YC120 (correct me if I’m wrong, I’m not that well known with EVE RP timelines and such) and every Earth year we get another EVE year. I also don’t know enough about the lore but there’s so many disparate cultures and systems, Capsuleers only make up a small fraction of total population, and themselves aren’t really the engineers/scientists and everyone that makes everything work. They’re just a bunch of rich punks playing Space Cowboy dressed all emo and socializing by hitting each other 😉 It seems likely to me that the scientists making everything work settled on a lightyear in New Eden based around some year they were able to measure and are familiar with, and then Capsuleers and their culture redefines everything back to Earth-time… So presumably wherever the Jump Drives are built from. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 6:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lightyears-arent-really-lightyears-just-how-big-is-new-eden/281299/26 "2020-11-23T18:00:41Z")
![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/8/4/8402ad1d833f0c0ebe54b43c47a51afdd8b637cd.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 6:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lightyears-arent-really-lightyears-just-how-big-is-new-eden/281299/27 "2020-11-23T18:01:14Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/8/4/8402ad1d833f0c0ebe54b43c47a51afdd8b637cd.gif) Jurassic park would have been very different had he dressed like this. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lightyears-arent-really-lightyears-just-how-big-is-new-eden/281299/28 "2020-11-23T19:33:25Z")
I actually have started to find this interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 7:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lightyears-arent-really-lightyears-just-how-big-is-new-eden/281299/29 "2020-11-23T19:44:22Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > I actually have started to find this interesting. Jeff Goldblum makes anything interesting. BTW join the Jita Observatory, help solve the distance problem. I am pretty sure we can… I’m shooting for discovering the “actual” distance between Jita and New Caldari based on the New Eden skies… I’m reasonably certain we can figure out the distance based on trigonometry. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 7:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lightyears-arent-really-lightyears-just-how-big-is-new-eden/281299/30 "2020-11-23T19:47:20Z")
Believe it or not I was following closely before that. But Jeff makes it better. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 7:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lightyears-arent-really-lightyears-just-how-big-is-new-eden/281299/31 "2020-11-23T19:47:43Z")
But what distance will be the reference distance? If you don’t trust any of the numbers. You need to define one of the lengths of one of the triangles. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 7:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lightyears-arent-really-lightyears-just-how-big-is-new-eden/281299/32 "2020-11-23T19:51:27Z")
I have three proposals: 1. We first measure things in relative distances, not knowing what their actual distances are we get a better approximation of their relational distances. 2. We see if the luminosity given by the game in the star info can be used with an approximate “magnitude” as seen in the New Eden sky to work out a distance (this is how astronomers do it with direct measurement). 3. We settle on a proposed ‘size’ of common astronomical structures that are similar to other structures in real observed space, and suggest that as a frame of reference. #3 is more promising than it at first sounds, for instance there are clear “_Pillars of Creation_” within _The Forge Nebula_ so I propose that because they are similar to other Pillars of Creation in our real observed nebulae, that they are approximately similar in structure and size, so therefore about 5 lightyears across. While I want more definitive proof than #3 offers, #3 isn’t a terrible suggestion, it puts _The Forge Nebula_ in the ballpark of 70 light years across… ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 7:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lightyears-arent-really-lightyears-just-how-big-is-new-eden/281299/33 "2020-11-23T19:55:31Z")
I have a 4th proposal but I highly doubt it will work. We find a large system, I think Malkalen is one that is 100+AUs across? This means the entire Solar System is 1/325th of a light year across roughly… And we see if we can measure actual parallax. I doubt the background skybox in a system allows for this…_BUT_ I’ve already been more than surprised by this endeavor so far…so who knows? But the problem with #4 is any actual parallax would probably be on the order of pixels. I haven’t worked out the Trigonometry across a 200 AU shift in position, but arguably any real parallax observed would be only a few pixels different…considering that the shift in position is still less than 350th of a light year. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 7:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lightyears-arent-really-lightyears-just-how-big-is-new-eden/281299/34 "2020-11-23T19:59:09Z")
People have done a lot of work in the New Eden (Eve Gate) system - perhaps you could ask for some of the bookmarks in there. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 7:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lightyears-arent-really-lightyears-just-how-big-is-new-eden/281299/35 "2020-11-23T19:59:41Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > People have done a lot of work in the New Eden (Eve Gate) system - perhaps you could ask for some of the bookmarks in there. Can you elaborate a little about this? I’m not familiar with any of that at all. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 8:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lightyears-arent-really-lightyears-just-how-big-is-new-eden/281299/36 "2020-11-23T20:05:59Z")
The Eve Gate is (allegedly) located 3 light years from the New Eden solar system. It is an impressive object in the sky. In the past, there used to be guys who would try to MWD out to the Eve Gate. Some people got really far out. Then, CCP changed the rules, so that bookmarks could not be far, far beyond the solar system, so those bookmarks were moved back into the sphere of the solar system. It might be more practical to just find a huge solar system, but the New Eden system has a lot of history, and it is a fairly large system, if I remember correctly. So, doing some measurements from inside there could be worthwhile. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 8:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lightyears-arent-really-lightyears-just-how-big-is-new-eden/281299/37 "2020-11-23T20:12:05Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > It might be more practical to just find a huge solar system, but the New Eden system has a lot of history, and it is a fairly large system, if I remember correctly. So, doing some measurements from inside there could be worthwhile. This is good information. It’s a potential starting point but ultimately I think some combination of #3 is going to be more reliable while then confirming that with relative positions. For instance if we find Distance A to B to be 4 units long, and Distance A to C to be 5 units long. Then we find A to B to be 4 lightyears and A to C to be 5 lightyears, we can say they are correct based on observations and measurements. I half-expect to find that we measure A to B to be 4 lightyears, A to C to be 5 light years. But the distances based on trigonometry vary wildly…in fact I half-expect most things to _NOT_ be “consistent” as you change place to place…their apparent distances will probably change absurdly. But won’t know till we measure 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 8:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lightyears-arent-really-lightyears-just-how-big-is-new-eden/281299/38 "2020-11-23T20:16:16Z")
Based on your statement I think it is safe to say 3 lightyears is within this red circle, because why else associate the _EVE Gate_ with _New Eden_ Unless its proximity is closer to New Eden than to other star systems, right? So that circle is probably still too big… But it further demonstrates that the listed Jump Drive distances are definitely **WAY OFF** in some way. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/a/a/aa80a64cd48c41a45be9a621503cfa81695d5229.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 8:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lightyears-arent-really-lightyears-just-how-big-is-new-eden/281299/39 "2020-11-23T20:33:36Z")
It always seemed strage that you could only see the Eve Gate clearly from New Eden. I mean, it is supposed to be SO far away, but why isn’t it visible from other angles? ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2020, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lightyears-arent-really-lightyears-just-how-big-is-new-eden/281299/40 "2020-11-23T20:36:12Z")
This is easier explained by interstellar dust than you would think. If the Earth wasn’t inside a dust cloud, Andromeda Galaxy would be easily visible to the naked eye and 5x bigger than the moon. But alas, God put us in a dust cloud so everything is “dark” and shitty. And looking through it we don’t even know we are in a dust cloud…at first glance. Basically it comes down to how bright is the object…and if there’s dust in the way. The dust cloud the Earth sits in is just some 1 particle per cubic-meter kind of cloud, too…not even enough to generate light, reflection, or a nebula. Just a smattering of interstellar dust… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lightyears-arent-really-lightyears-just-how-big-is-new-eden/281299.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/lightyears-arent-really-lightyears-just-how-big-is-new-eden/281299.md?page=3)