# Local Comms Blackout - Discussion Thread - Part Deux! **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Tags:** feedback, official\ **Created:** [July 18, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410 "2019-07-18T19:57:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 107
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 8:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2167 "2019-08-09T20:13:38Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > It wouldn’t matter if the Tengu had a cyno or not. I guarantee the defensive cyno will drop more, harder. That is argumentative. Wipe it. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 8:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2168 "2019-08-09T20:14:59Z")
No, that’s a supercapital umbrella. Kind of the whole point of them. If the attackers can out-drop a defensive umbrella, they’ve brought a large enough force of titans into the area that all of the local intel networks will have watched them move. You may not _like_ the idea that the ratter and miner still have the capacity to bring overwhelming force if they’re careful, but it’s still true. If you’re going to argue that ‘zomg cynos!!’ means attackers have all of these ungodly advantages, then you have to face the fact that just being intelligent enough to not hang your bare ass out the window screaming ‘SHOOT ME!!!’ is enough to shift the odds back to the PvEr’s advantage. Pay attention. Be on comms. And don’t go out where you can’t get defended. If you want safety, you do the things that give safety. If you don’t do the things that make you safe, you shouldn’t complain when you’re not. ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 8:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2169 "2019-08-09T20:24:25Z")
True. I don’t live there, nor have been. But I hear stories… Here is a point for you: . kudos (the tengu in my mind has a smart pilot. He fitted el cloak and is nullified, still. He’s good) ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2170 "2019-08-09T20:27:03Z")
> [@Xucca](#): > > True. I don’t live there, nor have been. I do.  ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 10:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2171 "2019-08-09T22:12:30Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > In what way is it easier? You aren’t seriously asking that question are you? Are you really so bad at Eve you don’t understand the mechanics or just being a BAD troll? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 10:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2172 "2019-08-09T22:15:23Z")
The question has been answered, and as it is something that has not changed under Blackout, that intel was there before it too. Whether Blackout has magnified its usefulness to the point of suggesting/requesting withdrawing it as intel is a matter worth discussing. I dont see what there is to get so hostile about. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 10:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2173 "2019-08-09T22:20:51Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > I dont see what there is to get so hostile about. The incredible lack of Ostsols in EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 10:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2174 "2019-08-09T22:26:31Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Yet you are unable or unwilling to explain what about Blackface applies to one narrow play style over the other when they both have exactly the same access to the same information. Ok I should have read a little further before my last post. You I’m sorry don’t have a clue. Trying to say both PVP’rs and PVEr’s have access to the same information via tools CCP provide - IS JUST WRONG. EG; As a PVP’r, I can open up the ingame map and see the hotspots of PVE all over New Eden and pick a spot to go hunting. As a PVE’r, I can’t see PVPr’s coming until they show up on Dscan (or a scout on the gate spots them). If my example isn’t clear enough for you, I’d suggest you just uninstall now as you are clueless and just don’t know how to play the game. Blackout is not an issue - The way information is provided by the game during blackout IS.,. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 10:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2175 "2019-08-09T22:28:14Z")
You are in fact saying exactly what has been fleshed out above, you are just choosing to put a spin on it based on how you choose to interpret the data. Honestly, I really dont care about your agenda. Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 10:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2176 "2019-08-09T22:30:22Z")
My only “agenda” was to try and show you how wrong you were. Not everyone playing during blackout has access to the same information when it comes to hunter and hunted. Maybe had you acknowledged you were wrong instead of posting the same drivel a second time - My agenda would have been to ignore you (my preferred option btw) ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 10:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2177 "2019-08-09T22:30:52Z")
Yep, still dont care about it. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 10:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2178 "2019-08-09T22:32:24Z")
I do believe it or not understand - You were blatantly wrong and have trouble admitting such. It’s ok, “yep still don’t care” shows me - My job is done. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 10:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2179 "2019-08-09T22:35:26Z")
Everyone has access to _exactly_ the same data. The fact that bears don’t safeguard themselves from that data being used against them is _their_ choice. PvPers leave exactly the same kind of traces. Kills, losses, gate jumps, cynos, etc. If bears choose to stay and rack up more and more and more and more in the same spot, that’s _their choice and their fault._ The data is exactly the same, but for some reason bears seem to think they should get special exception and not have their footprints and stomping grounds visible. I’m afraid you’re the one that’s just plain and blatantly wrong. PvPers don’t have any more tools than bears. Bears just choose to become vulnerable to it by lighting big neon signs in the sky yodeling “here I am”, while being perfectly aware that is what happens. Next you’ll claim sharks have unfair advantages in the sea, while you’re actively chumming the water and rubbing yourself with BBQ sauce. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 10:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2180 "2019-08-09T22:39:29Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Pay attention. Be on comms. And don’t go out where you can’t get defended. If you want safety, you do the things that give safety. If you don’t do the things that make you safe, you shouldn’t complain when you’re not. I’m sorry but I see this as a bad thing - 1. It is promoting “join Goons” you’ll be safer 2. Small/er groups without a Super umbrella don’t belong in Nul 3. That statement alone is the one, out of over 12,000 posts about the blackout, that some nitwit at CCP will read and use to justify the usefulness of Blackout. I know that is not how you meant it but please remember, this is Eve forums - Devs and management only see what they want to see and will interpret it to meet “their” own objectives… ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 10:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2181 "2019-08-09T22:48:09Z")
> [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > It is promoting “join Goons” you’ll be safer It’s promoting safety in numbers, which has always been true in Eve. It’s always been every individual’s choice whether or not they want that. Arrendis there can vouch for the fact that people can be quite successful in Eve without that too. My own stints tend to be in smaller entities and I’m wealthy as hell. Well, used to be anyway. The days of Rorquals and unlimited super ratting has skewed things. > [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > Small/er groups without a Super umbrella don’t belong in Nul Of course they do, but they also run the risks. That’s when there’s a balancing act to strike. Don’t get the attention of someone who can and will stomp you for fun. Fly below the radar. Don’t set up things you can’t risk, in terms of infrastructure and assets. You can be a smaller entity in null just fine, you just have to _play accordingly_. Expecting high levels of safety without having to invest the numbers, assets and work the big entities have is kind of nonsensical to begin with. > [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > That statement alone is the one, out of over 12,000 posts about the blackout, that some nitwit at CCP will read and use to justify the usefulness of Blackout. It’s cute that you think CCP gives the slightest crap what we sperg on these boards by now. These threads have _looooong_ since ceased to be useful feedback for them. They have the _actual_ useful data from TQ to analyze. We’re just howling and/or pissing in the wind. If you’re not content with being entertainment for the rest of us, while CCP ignores everything we do and say, you probably should find something else to shiptoast about. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 10:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2182 "2019-08-09T22:50:46Z")
Seriously? So while doing PVE I should have the map open to see where some small gang (that barely shows as a blip on the map) is travelling through nulsec to a destination to try and kill the fleet I’m in. How exactly would that be achieved? Map doesn’t show in real time, It doesn’t tell me “this gang” is coming my way when they leave lowsec get on a titan and bridge 5 jumps out, I might get lucky and someone will see them when they cyno in to the adjoining NPC space which would give us a minute or two to get the Rorquals off grid. As a hunter, I can look at the map and choose where to go - We did exactly this last night and caught 2 Rorqs and a super via a WH. They were over 40 jumps (without the WH from us) and were totally unaware there was a fleet hunting them via the same things we used to find them. Wrong - I don’t think so - PVP’rs have far more advantages for hunting small/er groups with available tools than PVE’rs have of defending against hunters with those same tools ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 11:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2183 "2019-08-09T23:00:31Z")
> [@Sgt\_Ocker](#): > > Seriously? So while doing PVE I should have the map open to see where some small gang (that barely shows as a blip on the map) is travelling through nulsec to a destination to try and kill the fleet I’m in. Are you looking for a fight? No? Then why are you wanting to use _those_ tools? You don’t use the Infrared Cameras to protect yourself from someone hunting you by thermal sig. You use thermal shielding, _because you should by now understand what the hunters use and how YOU are vulnerable to it._ Or, if you choose not to hide, you use overwhelming anti-air firepower. Or you have spies in place letting you know when the attack comes. Etc etc. In Eve terms, you know how the map works. You know what YOUR actions look like on the map. You take action accordingly. This means one of several things. You use scouts and control the area you’re active in, ensuring no one can get to you without you knowing about it. You might defend in force, using cynos to drop defense fleets, or simply coordinate a defense fleet in the very system/pocket you’re in if cynos are jammed. Perhaps you’ll realize you don’t want to spike the map with activity so you roam the region as you bear, spreading your impact across multiple systems and the map always lagging behind. If you make yourself vulnerable to hunters by shooting off flares, hanging up neon signs and getting attention, that is very demonstrably _your_ fault. Again, you’re chumming the water and complaining that the sharks have it too easy. _You’re the one attracting them._ It’s on _you_ to then defend against them, be it through stealth, overwhelming force, intel net, or whatever else you choose to utilize. The point is, they still don’t have any more tools than you do. They just don’t _make themselves vulnerable through those tools_. All of you have the same _toolkit_. You’re complaining that when they bring a hammer down, that hammer isn’t useful to _you_, while ignoring the fact that you made yourself look like a nail and still have _the entire rest of the toolbox_ to use to your advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 11:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2184 "2019-08-09T23:02:29Z")
In order to milk you have to feed the cow. The cow is slow big, white and black on green surface. You can’t just upgrade a system by saying it. You must have a constant flow of NPC kills for the upgrades to work. Otherwise it’s useless and the NPC wont pay. And all that jumps to view on the maps and all other third party sidekicks. Mining is similar. It’s a simple thing. Stop trying to show otherwise. The advantage of PVP over PVE is undeniable and higher with BO, period. Unless, yeah. Umbrellas and donuts or donubrellas. In which case, no discussion because according to Hilmar, the BO did not solve that. Quit trolling Or think of a Blackout as total: NO MAP INFO, NO API PULL, nothing. Then, you can come back and contribute. But since that would resemble a WH even closer, it would be _ **another** _ existing feature, refried for you to swallow without coca-cola. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 11:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2185 "2019-08-09T23:04:02Z")
So clueless - you obviously don’t live in Nul and have no experience with blackout. Add to that, if you bothered to actually read and understand my post, you’d see it was tongue in cheek (sarcasm) directed at Arrendis. But this is an open forum and even the uninformed have a right to post.,. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 11:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/2186 "2019-08-09T23:05:28Z")
So you ran out of cheese and now resort to whine? Well, argue the person if you want. I’ve argued the case and you’ll have to do a damn sight better if you want to topple _that_. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410.md?page=106) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410.md?page=108)