# Local Comms Blackout - Discussion Thread - Part Deux! **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Tags:** feedback, official\ **Created:** [July 18, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410 "2019-07-18T19:57:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 3:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/227 "2019-07-19T15:59:10Z")
> [@CoRrUpTiGe](#): > > concession after concession from the publisher that make passive income a thing I’m sorry, what? We advocated _against_ passive income, and we still do. Moon mining used to be 100% passive income. You set up the tower, and then just collect goo a few weeks later. Now you actually have to _mine_ it. We want renting—another passive income for the landlord—gone. Live in and _use_ your space is the agenda we’ve pushed. ‘Safety’ comes from _activity_, from _real people_ at the keys willing to jump in and save one another. It comes from _playing the game_. > [@Haulie\_Berry](#): > > “This is a bad idea, because this is how we’ll use this to our disproportionate advantage.” To be fair, we’ve said that about a lot more than economic matters. They never listen. But yes, Rorquals? We didn’t want them even _this_ good, let alone the obscenities they were when the rebalance happened. Fozzie came out and openly _said_ he knew they were ‘too good’, but figured things could be dialed back. Nerf rorqs _hard_. Remove supercapitals entirely, or come up with a new use that makes fleets of 200 of them pointless. Fix citadels so that ‘asset safety’ comes in the form of friends who help you not lose the bloody thing in the first place. Give smaller groups a way to enjoy the ‘I can get out of this thing and fly something small and kinetic’ advantage that supercap pilots in the big groups have—reducing the _need_ for Keepstars for those small groups. Just understand that, having had All of EVE™ come try to kill us before, that no matter _what_ the changes are, we’re going to do our level best to make sure we’re capable of fighting off every last one of you bastards _at once_ and mock you for your failure. ---
**Author:** ![CoRrUpTiGe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corruptige/32/178725_2.png) [@CoRrUpTiGe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CoRrUpTiGe)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 4:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/228 "2019-07-19T16:05:16Z")
After super proliferation happened and your advantaged secured it is always more convenient and expedient to reverse course in the interest of “appearances.” ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 4:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/229 "2019-07-19T16:06:52Z")
We’ve been saying “Death to all Supers” for over ten years. Three years ago we got burned out of the north, remember? Now who’s being ‘convenient’? ---
**Author:** ![CoRrUpTiGe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corruptige/32/178725_2.png) [@CoRrUpTiGe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CoRrUpTiGe)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 4:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/230 "2019-07-19T16:12:16Z")
Eve and null history go back more than 10 years. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/231 "2019-07-19T16:15:28Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > ‘Safety’ comes from _activity_ , from _real people_ at the keys willing to jump in and save one another. It comes from _playing the game_ . While theoretically and on the surface very admirable and top notch philosophy etc… … said activity is kind of cancer. There’s not really any way to get around the fact that a lot of the base activity (mining, ratting, mission running, most PvE in general in fact) is _mindbogglingly dull_ and requires damn near a lobotomy to make even remotely desirable. This is a problem, when there is no path to success that doesn’t require a very sizable chunk of your community to engage in this day in and day out, 23.5/7, forever. Having an organization lean and combat focused just isn’t possible, unless there are potential passive incomes or ways to turn PvP combat focus into at the absolute very least ISK reserves. I do like the idea of needing to utilize space and work for your success and all… but making that translate into “Rorqs, Hel Ratting or vast amounts of VNI bots only” isn’t very good game design. It’s pretty important that CCP finds some sort of balanced way to turn PvP into a viable actual thing to do in Eve as an entity both small and large. Making it so the only path towards potential relevance as an entity is stuffing as many bears as possible in your organization is rather limiting in the end. > [@Arrendis](#): > > mock you for your failure. Oh I don’t know. On the scales of actually possible outcomes you _can_ force in Eve, I’d say stuffing every last one of you into a single station in lowsec while everything else burned to the ground is hardly failure. If everything short of alliances disbanding is failure, I don’t think anyone’s actually succeeded in Eve so far. I get your point, but don’t be too cocky about it. That fall from grace was very real, and it was a long one. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 4:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/232 "2019-07-19T16:31:59Z")
> [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > There’s not really any way to get around the fact that a lot of the base activity (mining, ratting, mission running, most PvE in general in fact) is _mindbogglingly dull_ and requires damn near a lobotomy to make even remotely desirable. Generally, the way we tend to get around it is by being on Mumble together as we do it, talking and entertaining one another. It’s a social activity more than anything else. > [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > This is a problem, when there is no path to success that doesn’t require a very sizable chunk of your community to engage in this day in and day out, 23.5/7, forever. Have you looked at last month’s MER? I think it’s fair to say that we’ve been successful, _and_ demonstrated that when we really need to, even _our_ turbokrabs shift gears. That was a pretty punishing optempo we maintained for a month solid or so. > [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > I do like the idea of needing to utilize space and work for your success and all… but making that translate into “Rorqs, Hel Ratting or vast amounts of VNI bots only” isn’t very good game design. It’s pretty important that CCP finds some sort of balanced way to turn PvP into a viable actual thing to do in Eve as an entity both small and large. Yup. There totally needs to be ways to make PvPing into a viable lifestyle. I mean, I’d argue with you there, except for the fact that I’ve already [gone on at some length to support exactly that idea](https://imperium.news/pvp-lifestyle/). > [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > I’d say stuffing every last one of you into a single station in lowsec while everything else burned to the ground is hardly failure. Ah, but I didn’t say you _had_ failed, I was speaking of the _next_ time. Besides, the fall from grace, as you put it, was probably the best thing that could’ve happened to us. Trimmed a lot of the fat, bulked up on protein shakes, and then went and got a much more defensible chunk of space. Dek’s basically 3 pipes, and porous as hell. ---
**Author:** ![Ikki\_Phoenix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ikki_phoenix/32/391105_2.png) [@Ikki\_Phoenix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ikki_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/233 "2019-07-19T16:36:21Z")
and if I recall my history, the other side had a bunch of infighting and couldnt get the end job done either… With that said, Arrendis is right that safety comes also from activity. And that is where I wish CCP would have never gone free to play… ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 4:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/234 "2019-07-19T16:37:47Z")
Yeah, because all those Rorqual and supercapital pilots are alpha clones, right? ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 4:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/235 "2019-07-19T16:48:28Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Generally, the way we tend to get around it is by being on Mumble together as we do it, talking and entertaining one another. It’s a social activity more than anything else. This doesn’t strike you as a bit of a problem? That a fundamental and core activity, these days _required_ for an entity to even function really, is so awful that the only redeemable feature you can bring up is “yeh but we can sort of… talk together. While we do it.” which holds true for literally everything you can do in Eve that doesn’t require strict comms discipline. While this is an MMO, one of the standards to meet in terms of MMO gameplay is “Is this something someone could reliably do on their own for a bit without chewing off a leg or shooting themselves in the head?”. A lot of Eve’s core gameplay _doesn’t meet this requirement._ That’s a problem to me, at least. > [@Arrendis](#): > > Have you looked at last month’s MER? I think it’s fair to say that we’ve been successful, _and_ demonstrated that when we really need to, even _our_ turbokrabs shift gears. That was a pretty punishing optempo we maintained for a month solid or so. … I don’t see how this is a response to what I said. “There is no path to success that doesn’t involve doing X and Y.” “We did a LOT of X and Y successfully.” Yes, this I have no doubts about. > [@Arrendis](#): > > Yup. There totally needs to be ways to make PvPing into a viable lifestyle. I mean, I’d argue with you there, except for the fact that I’ve already [gone on at some length to support exactly that idea](https://imperium.news/pvp-lifestyle/). Sorry, tl;skipped around in it. Didn’t really see an option that allowed for success as _an entity_ in PvP. I highly suspect that’s just not doable short of returning passive income options that scale with your organization’s combat ability. > [@Ikki\_Phoenix](#): > > And that is where I wish CCP would have never gone free to play… Alphas are fine. Skill Injectors are not. In any way, shape or form. I completely and utterly misjudged Eve’s playerbase when skill injectors first came along. I kind of envisioned a way to sort of respecc your mistakes with diminishing returns. What happened was that the time usually needed to get the Rorqual alt, the super alt, the fax alts etc in place evaporated if you threw isk at it. I’m not even sure if there’s any point removing them anymore. The sheer unfathomable damage their existence has done to Eve is beyond description and I can’t think of a way to fix that without both removing them entirely, and turning the Rorquals, Titans and Supers into something else entirely than they already are. Support entities only functional with vast amounts of subcaps and normal caps to support. I don’t know, Supers can become Faxes that subcaps can dock in or some ■■■■, with good command bursts and beneficial effects, but no fighters, etc. That’s another subject that requires very lengthy discussion and others have covered that much better already. Skill Injectors though… those have to go before anything else can even get near fixed. ---
**Author:** ![Ms\_Steak](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ms_steak/32/168834_2.png) [@Ms\_Steak](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ms_Steak)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 5:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/236 "2019-07-19T17:03:20Z")
> [@CoRrUpTiGe](#): > > that make passive income a thing and relative safety a reality for those player groups. lets see… Passive moon mining \> passive moon mining with siphons \> active moon mining with (lots of) ships that is open to all kinds of disruptive plays ---
**Author:** ![Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/herzog_wolfhammer/32/452132_2.png) [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Herzog_Wolfhammer)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 5:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/237 "2019-07-19T17:11:41Z")
HURF BLURF I’M UNSUBBING MY 6 GORILLION ACCOUNTS! DURRRRRRRRR! What’s this about? ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 5:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/238 "2019-07-19T17:13:27Z")
> [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](#): > > What’s this about? No no, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. Ten thousand posts largely summed up right there. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 5:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/239 "2019-07-19T17:13:38Z")
> [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > This doesn’t strike you as a bit of a problem? That a fundamental and core activity, these days _required_ for an entity to even function really, is so awful that the only redeemable feature you can bring up is “yeh but we can sort of… talk together. While we do it.” which holds true for literally everything you can do in Eve that doesn’t require strict comms discipline. > > While this is an MMO, one of the standards to meet in terms of MMO gameplay is “Is this something someone could reliably do on their own for a bit without chewing off a leg or shooting themselves in the head?”. A lot of Eve’s core gameplay _doesn’t meet this requirement._ That’s a problem to me, at least. I dunno, I generally find that’s the way I deal with solo content in every MMO. I like to play solo, but socialize at the same time. Always have. Applying that to EVE doesn’t seem too different. (Edit: I mean, yeah, EVE’s PvE gameplay sucks ass, but that’s kind of a different thing than the ‘find a way to make it bearable’ thing. As players, we can’t fix the ass-suckery, but we can make it bearable.) > [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > I don’t see how this is a response to what I said. Except that my point is that for a month solid, we did X, but not Y, demonstrating the capability for people to be successful even if there _isn’t_ ‘a very sizable chunk of your community’ engaging in ratting/mining ‘day in and day out, 23.5/7, forever’. It’s literally a direct refutation. > [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > Didn’t really see an option that allowed for success as _an entity_ in PvP. It’s not going to be possible to scale up PvP as a primary activity to the levels that industrial powers can manage. If it was, it would literally kill industrial activity as a viable nullsec playstyle, for the same reason that carrier pilots aren’t clamoring for CCP to make it so other players can play as their fighter pilots: it’ll _always_ be more efficient to put those players in carriers of their own. Similarly, if you can scale ‘pure pvp life’ up to the same sizes and effectiveness as industrial powers, it will _never_ be useful not to be ‘pure pvp’. So you need to have a balance, and the marauding warlord pretty much has to be the one at the size disadvantage, or the whole thing tears itself apart in a glorious orgy of destruction… that is then _over_. And once it’s over, it doesn’t recover, because recovery is literally the less viable gameplay vs ‘just get in the reapers and shoot those guys’. If you want the game’s environment to grow, as CCP clearly do, and not just be an endless frigate deathmatch that’d be better served by CCP keeping _Valkyrie_, industry has to be the better option at scale. It just also has to be possible for PvPers and PvP groups to make enough money to thrive—just less efficiently. And things like the salvage/prize ship suggestion were attempts to find ways to make that happen. After all, right now, it _is_ possible to have a large organization that makes money by living a purely PvP lifestyle. I even addressed that in the article: MiniLuv is 100% self-funding, and profitable enough that they pay out to the members while still maintaining their stockpiles _and_ paying for the entirety of Burn events. They’re just not profitable on the scale that an industrial org is. > [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > Skill Injectors though… those have to go before anything else can even get near fixed. I think skill injectors might be ok if you couldn’t run SP farms. It’s the ability to have 3 characters doing nothing but churning out skillgoo on each of 1200 accounts (for one player) that makes them this bad, I think. I could be wrong. > [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](#): > > 6 GORILLION That’s what, a 6 with Gorilla Zeros behind it? ---
**Author:** ![Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/herzog_wolfhammer/32/452132_2.png) [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Herzog_Wolfhammer)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 5:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/240 "2019-07-19T17:17:23Z")
Yeah this SP injection thing was a bad idea built on bad ideas and wrapped in a bad idea. Skill injectors should exist, but extractors no. I would make injectors into rare exploration drops. And not the canned and predictable exploration either. The other kind, the olde kind. ---
**Author:** ![Lily\_Ivanova](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lily_ivanova/32/145864_2.png) [@Lily\_Ivanova](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lily_Ivanova)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 5:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/241 "2019-07-19T17:20:03Z")
No you can’t… because ppl sell their stuff for f…ken expensive plex!!! ---
**Author:** ![Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/herzog_wolfhammer/32/452132_2.png) [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Herzog_Wolfhammer)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/242 "2019-07-19T17:21:12Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > For example: Some people might think “living there” only means mining, or ratting, or explo. Other people might think “living there” just means logging in an out. Therein lies one of the issues. They automatically assume “farming” because that’s what everything automatically commonly denominates to. Take every path of “why do you do XYZ” in Eve, and every time, ultimately, it’s going to end up being “farming”. ---
**Author:** ![Lily\_Ivanova](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lily_ivanova/32/145864_2.png) [@Lily\_Ivanova](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lily_Ivanova)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/243 "2019-07-19T17:23:07Z")
there will be no farming if the plex is max 150 mil isk…then more ppl will play and blackout will be not a big issue ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 5:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/244 "2019-07-19T17:26:33Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > I dunno, I generally find that’s the way I deal with solo content in every MMO. I like to play solo, but socialize at the same time. Always have. Applying that to EVE doesn’t seem too different. This doesn’t change that the activity itself has no redeeming feature. What does it matter that socializing during the activity is possible? The issue is that the activity itself is absolutely assblastingly awful. Forcing this to be an integral part of any successful entity in Eve is generally speaking awful game design. > [@Arrendis](#): > > Except that my point is that for a month solid, we did X, but not Y, demonstrating the capability for people to be successful even if there _isn’t_ ‘a very sizable chunk of your community’ engaging in ratting/mining ‘day in and day out, 23.5/7, forever’. > > It’s literally a direct refutation. Yup. I’m sure you guys would be where you are if you never went for Rorqual and Super spam. It surely is a possible path to success. That you can go a month without one of the two after how much time turbobearing? Doesn’t really say much. Fasting for a day doesn’t really put much strain on me if I spent the preceding week gorging. > [@Arrendis](#): > > It’s not going to be possible to scale up PvP as a primary activity to the levels that industrial powers can manage. If it was, it would literally kill industrial activity as a viable nullsec playstyle, for the same reason that carrier pilots aren’t clamoring for CCP to make it so other players can play as their fighter pilots: it’ll _always_ be more efficient to put those players in carriers of their own. Similarly, if you can scale ‘pure pvp life’ up to the same sizes and effectiveness as industrial powers, it will _never_ be useful not to be ‘pure pvp’. > > So you need to have a balance, and the marauding warlord pretty much has to be the one at the size disadvantage, or the whole thing tears itself apart in a glorious orgy of destruction… that is then _over_ . And once it’s over, it doesn’t recover, because recovery is literally the less viable gameplay vs ‘just get in the reapers and shoot those guys’. > > If you want the game’s environment to grow, as CCP clearly do, and not just be an endless frigate deathmatch that’d be better served by CCP keeping _Valkyrie_ , industry has to be the better option at scale. It just also has to be possible for PvPers and PvP groups to make enough money to thrive—just less efficiently. And things like the salvage/prize ship suggestion were attempts to find ways to make that happen. > > After all, right now, it _is_ possible to have a large organization that makes money by living a purely PvP lifestyle. I even addressed that in the article: MiniLuv is 100% self-funding, and profitable enough that they pay out to the members while still maintaining their stockpiles _and_ paying for the entirety of Burn events. They’re just not profitable on the scale that an industrial org is. The initial part is fair, of course. However, you’re using as an example something that doesn’t even get near what any PvP focused entity thinks of when we talk about PvP. Freighter ganking is about as relevant in this discussion as mining in WoW is to Eve Industry. It just… isn’t. I think you’re wrong though. Industry does not need to scale better at the highest end. That’s not balanced, that’s just _safe_ for any entity that can throw numbers at a problem without having to worry about skill or morale. Having PvP as an option that kept scaling in balance with industry cores remains balanced because it’s self-correcting. Losing will reduce your ability to win. Failure can cascade. With the way industry cores in entities work now, there’s no path to failure, and there’s no balance in that. > [@Arrendis](#): > > I think skill injectors might be ok if you couldn’t run SP farms. It’s the ability to have 3 characters doing nothing but churning out skillgoo on each of 1200 accounts (for one player) that makes them this bad, I think. I could be wrong. While one of the issues, the main issue remains how isk income scaling up means a wildly accelerating isk income when you convert it to more income characters without training time acting as a bottleneck. This translates to wildly accelerating power creep in large entities. As we have seen with Rorqual, Super and Titan proliferation. Skill Injectors removed one of the bottlenecks that could at the very least have slowed it down. ---
**Author:** ![BigDaddy\_Cool](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bigdaddy_cool/32/145769_2.png) [@BigDaddy\_Cool](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/BigDaddy_Cool)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 5:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/245 "2019-07-19T17:30:39Z")
Maybe rather than just doing a local complete blackout they should had made the idea more dynamic. Maybe adding a structure into the game that enables local to be seen by allies of the owning structure. This structure can be attacked and on its destruction something prevents a new one being built for a pre determined time. Make them very expensive too. Just a rough idea and would need refining but I think a base blackout is too extreme. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 5:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410/246 "2019-07-19T17:31:17Z")
> [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > Industry does not need to scale better at the highest end. It absolutely does. If I can get as much profitability from 100 combat pilots as I can from 70 combat pilots and 30 industrial pilots, I’m an _idiot_ if I take the industrialists… because they can’t fight back. The 100 combat pilots will roll them, every time, and then the 70+30 aren’t making money. As that keeps happening, materiel prices spike, then supplies dry up, and it’s Reapers Online. > [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > While one of the issues, the main issue remains how isk income scaling up means a wildly accelerating isk income when you convert it to more income characters without training time acting as a bottleneck. Right, but without the SP farms, would there be enough of a supply of injectors to make that happen? > [@BigDaddy\_Cool](#): > > Maybe rather than just doing a local complete blackout they should had made the idea more dynamic. Maybe adding a structure into the game that enables local to be seen by allies of the owning structure. This structure can be attacked and on its destruction something prevents a new one being built for a pre determined time. Make them very expensive too. Just a rough idea and would need refining but I think a base blackout is too extreme. Not for gathering data on how the players respond to it. You change one thing. That thing should be something you can easily undo, and ideally, something that doesn’t take a lot of developer time to set up. Then you run your test, get your data. Adding a new structure (ignoring the structure spam issues) means dev time to add it. It means ‘ok, we’re undoing this’ gets harder. (How are you undoing it? blowing up the structures? Do people get the isk they invested back? What about the time they put into building, deploying, and defending them?) For the _initial_ round, this was the right way to go. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410.md?page=11) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/local-comms-blackout-discussion-thread-part-deux/176410.md?page=13)